The key price thread

[Distinctively Vincent]

2. He bought from a carder, but it's never been proven he did so intentionally. If it had, he'd be marked on steamrep and autobanned here. There are many people who unknowingly dealt with carders, should we ban them all? The private BP is irrelevent. Tf2outpost cares, but for a price suggestion site, the content of one's backpack shouldn't matter so long as they successfully demonstrate their suggestion is representative of market activity. Most importantly, neither impact his suggestion at hand.

 

3. Contentless spam, all it serves to do is clutter the suggestion. Spam was added as against the rules for a reason. If one wants to explain why they are voting on way or another based on experiences or what they've seen, that's great! It's helpful information. If they are just announcing the fact they are voting, they aren't contributing to discussion and it's spam.

 

4. There are plenty of places to voice your opinions, and even a place at bp.tf specifically made for it. The problem is that key suggestions get far too cluttered with unrelated discussion. It makes discussion about the suggestion at hand and a mod's reviewing of the suggestion excessively difficult. Your thoughts on the state of the economy, the incoming collapse of the economy, the reputation of the suggester, the integrity of backpack.tf, the integrity of the mods, the influences on keys, the greed of traders, etc etc etc can be made anywhere else, including the forums of bp.tf. For price suggestions, the matter is whether the item is trading within the suggested range and/or whether the trades are being made to a sufficient degree to belong in range. Spam distracts and detracts from that discussion, and is as such a problem needing to be dealt with.

 

1 and 5 warrant more thought. I'll come back to those, I just wanted to deal with the simpler 2-4 immediately.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

5."Do NOT suggest a new price range for keys until 3 days have past since the last increase" 

Well the thing is. Even tho Long/Any suggestor has their suggestion closed in past 12-24 Hours. He's still making new suggestions with higher range? You admins should probably make some kind of rule about that too.

Someone suggests a key price increase. It gets closed. And within a day or so, someone suggests a higher range. Whats wrong with that? The suggester still allowed the 3-day grace period between ACCEPTED suggestions. So why should it not be allowed? What if something happened in the market and the price of keys shifted dramatically. 

 

A side-note, please be honest here (at least be honest with yourself). Would you be complaining about any of this if the price of keys was decreasing---i think not (hell im 99.99999% sure you wouldn't be). So, just because you don't like whats happening since you can no longer afford keys does NOT make it incorrect/invalid/deserving punishment. Suck it up, realize that times of changed, and move on. 

[@@@@@@]

this is scout, key prices make him cry 

[Crabislav]

I think we all've seen a screenshot of chat where he admits that he's knowingly buying keys from carders. If someone haven't - you are living under a rock.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I think we all've seen a screenshot of chat where he admits that he's knowingly buying keys from carders. If someone haven't - you are living under a rock.

Andy and Long are both notorious for being trolls. Plus everything seems to point to Long not knowing they were carded. Its been pointed out numerous times, you just never want to listen to reason. You just love to focus on the negative since you seem to hate backpack.tf, what it stands for, any anyone who supports it. Evident by the fact that virtually everyone of your posts portrays backpack.tf in a negative way. 

[MC22]

Andy and Long are both notorious for being trolls. Plus everything seems to point to Long not knowing they were carded. Its been pointed out numerous times, you just never want to listen to reason. You just love to focus on the negative since you seem to hate backpack.tf, what it stands for, any anyone who supports it. Evident by the fact that virtually everyone of your posts portrays backpack.tf in a negative way. 

Which is why he made his own ridiculously redundant post other than just replying to one of the other ones.

[Crabislav]

Wow, calm down children, I do not consider Long as a troll and that screenahot was  spammed all over the place which was more than enough for me since I rarely visit the forums . I don't hide my hate for backpack.tf but my previous post had nothing to do with that. I'm saying that carded keys are always cheaper and one must have realised this is too fishy when anyone could have sold those keys for more very easily.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Wow, calm down children, I do not consider Long as a troll and that screenahot was  spammed all over the place which was more than enough for me since I rarely visit the forums . I don't hide my hate for backpack.tf but my previous post had nothing to do with that. I'm saying that carded keys are always cheaper and one must have realised this is too fishy when anyone could have sold those keys for more very easily.

Do you listen (read) to what you say before you say it.....

 

• I do not consider Long as a troll.
  • HOW? The only person who trolls more than him is Andy....Hell, hes been banned for trolling. Whether he was trolling or not, its still pretty evident he didn't knowingly buy carded keys. Theres a reason why hes not marked for it.
  • Plus a few key things i've said over and over again, you just don't like to hear it because it invalidates your argument. If he knew he was buying carded keys then: 
    • Why was he hoarding them?
    • Why was he selling them for ABOVE market price.
    • Why did he try and get rid of all his keys once he was banned on SOP? (it wasn't until the ban that he started flipping buds at 27 keys). If he knew they were carded he would've been doing that from the get-go. 
    • Also, Long clearly doesn't exactly think....theres a reason his paypal account has a negative balance...So, i completely believe he didn't know the keys were carded. Hell, i'm willing to bet he never even gave it a second thought. 
• The screenshot was spammed all over the place.
  • Therefore it must be true? Because everything on the internet is true. 
• My previous post had nothing to do with it
  • Well, your right, you didn't outright express your hatred BUT, you still continue to focus solely on the negatives and completely ignore and positives. 
• One must have realized this is too fishy when anyone could have sold those keys for more very easily.
  • You do realize that there are people who sell at a discount in order to stock the larger traders...right? I would often sell at a discount since i'm selling in bulk (100+), and to a reputable person....Do you think all the key sellers on Outpost are only making $0.01 per key? 

[Crabislav]

I wish I was on PC, making me reply on Android is a pain in the ass.

 

1.Long is pseudotroll. So is Andy. If you spam "umadbro"-like phrases and stuff doesn't make you a troll. If you think they are trolls and what they are doing is trolling - i feel sorry for you. Being generally annoying doesn't make you a troll either. Don't even bother trying to prove me something here.

 

2.Read what I said. I rarely visit this place so I couldn't care less about people and their characters. That screenshot might be be fake and if it was, then I am sorry.

 

3.Deal with it.

 

4.Playing a fool is easy, isn't it?

 

I hate replying to comments like yours and I have.no idea why did I waste my time doing this

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I wish I was on PC, making me reply on Android is a pain in the ass.

✔More Excuses 

1.Long is pseudotroll. So is Andy. If you spam "umadbro"-like phrases and stuff doesn't make you a troll. If you think they are trolls and what they are doing is trolling - i feel sorry for you. Being generally annoying doesn't make you a troll either. Don't even bother trying to prove me something here.

✔Technicality 

2.Read what I said. I rarely visit this place so I couldn't care less about people and their characters. That screenshot might be be fake and if it was, then I am sorry.

✔Technicality

3.Deal with it.

✔literally nothing to say for yourself

4.Playing a fool is easy, isn't it?

✔meaningless non-sense

I hate replying to comments like yours and I have.no idea why did I waste my time doing this

✔Evasive behavior

You hate replying to them because you really have nothing to say for yourself. Every one of your responses is predicated on a technicality, a technicality which is completely irrelevant to the point. How about you actually make an actual response with valid opinions supported by fact rather than just arguing semantics. K?

[Final2500]

Someone suggests a key price increase. It gets closed. And within a day or so, someone suggests a higher range. Whats wrong with that? The suggester still allowed the 3-day grace period between ACCEPTED suggestions. So why should it not be allowed? What if something happened in the market and the price of keys shifted dramatically. 

 

A side-note, please be honest here (at least be honest with yourself). Would you be complaining about any of this if the price of keys was decreasing---i think not (hell im 99.99999% sure you wouldn't be). So, just because you don't like whats happening since you can no longer afford keys does NOT make it incorrect/invalid/deserving punishment. Suck it up, realize that times of changed, and move on. 

Just take the "3 days" thing completely out of your mind. I'm talking about there should be a limit about Closed/Rejected suggestions.

 

Yes you may be right, i might not be complaining. Because the price increase is Website's fault anyway. Taking profit trades as proofs.

 

And dont worry, I can affor keys. And no, i will not stay quiet. i have a right to talk, i will.

[∞Ramses]

Just take the "3 days" thing completely out of your mind. I'm talking about there should be a limit about Closed/Rejected suggestions.

 

Yes you may be right, i might not be complaining. Because the price increase is Website's fault anyway. Taking profit trades as proofs.

 

And dont worry, I can affor keys. And no, i will not stay quiet. i have a right to talk, i will.

 

At least it's good that you talk about it here, and not in key suggestions themselves.

[Brad Pitt]

1. So its FREE to spam suggestions or should i like.. "Donate" Few dollars?

2. This is not profit. why is he allowed. Since even private backpacks on Outpost is a bannable reason.

3./4. Admins should probably understand there's something going wrong if there are so many opinions bad about them. Like you can easily increase the price by showing Few Profit trades? how is this fair?

 

1. Watch your tone. People who donate do it to support the site and the management of it. It's a lot of work and thankfully some people realize that instead of just complain when something doesn't go their way. I don't appreciate the implications your little one-liner makes. Donators are not treated differently. They only get access to extra features, nothing else. It's not like we make millions of dollars from donations (unfortunately).

2. If the user is trade banned (that is, a real trade ban, not an investigative ban like Long has which isn't public) then they are blocked from suggestions automatically. Scammers are also banned automatically from suggesting. Anyone who isn't trade banned or scammer can make a suggestion, that's the entire idea of the suggestion system - let anyone bring in real solid proof so that our prices can be the most accurate.

3. Read the rules

4. There is a difference between a "few profit trades" and instant sellout from many trades. Stop distorting reality to your advantage, open your eyes for once.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

....Stop distorting reality to your advantage, open your eyes for once.

Implying that anyone complaining about key prices is rational.

[Final2500]

1. Watch your tone. People who donate do it to support the site and the management of it. It's a lot of work and thankfully some people realize that instead of just complain when something doesn't go their way. I don't appreciate the implications your little one-liner makes. Donators are not treated differently. They only get access to extra features, nothing else. It's not like we make millions of dollars from donations (unfortunately).

Alright, sorry. But still, doesnt answer my main question. So:

"Isn't spamming suggestions against rules? if so. why do key suggestors are spamming SO MUCH.?"

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Alright, sorry. But still, doesnt answer my main question. So:

"Isn't spamming suggestions against rules? if so. why do key suggestors are spamming SO MUCH.?"

Suggestion Rules:

• Must have valid proof. 
• Proof should cover both buyers/sellers
• Don't speculate
• a 2+month old unusual price can be bumped
• Do not make troll suggestions

Where does it say anything about spamming suggestions? 

 

The only reason i could see key suggestions being a problem is that they usually only change the price by a scrap or two, which is less than 5% (minimum change required to make a suggestion). But keys are a currency so they're a bit different than other items, and therefore do need to be precise, unlike a random hat where 1.33-1.44 vs. 1.33-1.55 really makes no difference. 

[jjjon123]

As of now: "Current price: 5–5.11 ref set 8 days ago"

 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5189671d4bd7b8b71100000b#5189d24b4bd7b81428000016_row

 

Guess what, I followed my own rule before I even stated it:

"An semi-accurate suggestion has just passed. Give it atleast a week before just expanding the range. (unless a major event occurs)"

 

Also, I like how you totally took the rule out of context:

- Do NOT suggest a new price range for keys until 3 days have past since the last increase,

- ***EXCEPT*** if a major event has occurred that has changed to price radically.

- ***OR*** if you do not agree with the last change, you may suggest to revert back with supporting proof & argument

 

See the exceptions?

 

I also want to comment on my other side of the "rule"

 

 

- Do NOT suggest a new price range for keys that is only a .5 scrap difference from the last suggestion. We do not need this constant spamming of .5 scrap changes.

- ***EXCEPT*** if the price has been stable for ~7 days(Change this to 5-7 days , the point of this rule is to not have .5 scrap increases every 2-3 days) and only a small change is needed.

 

There is nothing wrong with long suggesting

[MC22]

Alright, sorry. But still, doesnt answer my main question. So:

"Isn't spamming suggestions against rules? if so. why do key suggestors are spamming SO MUCH.?"

That's the same as asking "Why are you spamming my making a thread about this?"

you are, they aren't.

[Quote+]

So a large part of the increase is due to simple belief, without reason, that the future price will be higher. Thus buying at current makes sense for speculator thus deminishing the available supply. The remaining sellers were the ones selling at higher to begin with so they become the new current. I don't know how much of that is true but it doesn't take many to keep the price rising. Again, the absolute ceiling is somewhere around 6 ref.

 

Unknown, Liddojunior has made the point that you make more using keys to buy items to sell.

Considering that keys continue to endlessly increase, I wouldn't really call if it a belief that keys will rise, but nearly a fact.

 

As for your last paragraph...what?

[Lutz]

Problem: The issue at hand is that there isn't a hypothetical "Gold standard" so the price for keys, bills, buds, max's and HOWAR's will go up and down like a roller coaster ride.

 

Solution: There has to be a standard.

 

The Gold Standard is an economic system that is older then the bronze age. The tf2 economy is basically rushing through the iron age, attempting to skip the bronze, joint through the golden age, and finally land safely into the industrial age unscathed. It tuck us 15,000 years to get through all that, and we had HUGE problems at that rate. Expect that things are going to get rough.

 

We are talking about items witch hold gold slandered value in each of our respective economics systems. The problem is, once we buy into this system our money is depreciated and basically irredeemable except for the rare case of sketchy pay-pal trading or beta market sells at a 15% loss.

 

The value of a key is actually way less then 2.49$ but in fact it is 2.49/15%-d+i d=depreciation i=inflation. This problem can only be fixed if we can return our virtual money or items back into their monetary value, and this begins a huge list of problems on valves side. Someone is going to lose, and it is not going to be industry. The actually question, more so the answer, is what can do the find the happy medium for witch we can buy and sell at a price everyone can agree on with minimal loss for both party's.

 

[Maybe lowering, or even removing the tax on salable items and opening the market up to unusual's/other items used in trading?]

 

Edit: wanted to supply a fun read for all economists. If you remember Gundam, the reason the Zeon Federation where able to sustain a functioning economy for nearly 100 years of war was because they used a gold standard system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

[TheMaster]

I don't understand this. It is ridiculous. People are just slowly upping key prices. Making all the other items in TF2 effectively worth random amounts by devaluing refined and not changing other item's prices accordingly.

 

Here is a example i made up.

 

Keys are 2.33 refined, this was a while ago.

DethKapp is 2.33 refined (example). 

DethKapp is 1 key.
Key changes to 5 refined.

DethKapp is still 2.33.

DethKapp went from 1 key to 2.33 refined. Back then it was the same, now it is not.

If there are others like me who do not believe in this Key price uprising, VOTE ON THE PRICES!

Don't just sit whining about it, VOTE. 
If we all vote maybe something will happen, or we can sit here complaining.......

 

 

Anyways, post your guys' opinions.

[Alex From Security]

Long story short.

• Keys = 5 refined
• Tool from outpost gets key.
• Tool: I want to make profit.
• Sells for 5.11 Ref.
• Douchebag wants to up key prices.
• Dochebag: THIS GUY SOLD FOR 5.11 OGM PROOF.
• Gets accepted.
• Repeat.

 

The REAL story is that refined is becoming incredibly useless.
And you can thank carders for the prices too.

[TheMaster]

Long story short.

• Keys = 5 refined
• Tool from outpost gets key.
• Tool: I want to make profit.
• Sells for 5.11 Ref.
• Douchebag wants to up key prices.
• Dochebag: THIS GUY SOLD FOR 5.11 OGM PROOF.
• Gets accepted.
• Repeat.

 

The REAL story is that refined is becoming incredibly useless.

And you can thank carders for the prices too.

I agree, but refined doesn't have to be useless, it was a nice way to trade without spending real money. This needs to stop >.<

[Alex From Security]

I agree, but refined doesn't have to be useless, it was a nice way to trade without spending real money. This needs to stop >.<

Problem is, metal farmers.

I mean it is not very..effective in low numbers.

8 drops a week Crafted to scrap is a reclaimed and a scrap. It would take 3 weeks just to craft a hat.

However with a shit load of people doing it, and an infinite supply it is getting pretty useless. :/

[TheMaster]

Problem is, metal farmers.

I mean it is not very..effective in low numbers.

8 drops a week Crafted to scrap is a reclaimed and a scrap. It would take 3 weeks just to craft a hat.

However with a shit load of people doing it, and an infinite supply it is getting pretty useless. :/

Yeah, i admit to idling, what i DON'T do is make 130 accounts with sandboxie....

If people didn't make soo many accts for idling, then things would straighten out, the problem is that people don't think about the economy "OMG IF I MAKE 130 IDLING ACCTS I CAN GET LIKE 50 KEYS A WEEK OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I WILL BE RICH OMG".