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  1. 14 points

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    TLDR; I think backpack.tf’s trading with scammer bans are outdated and too strict. I have proposed a slightly laxer system in the final paragraphs. Dear all, I’m Julia. Most of you probably already know me as one of many Unusual traders. I don’t think it would be unfair to say that I have been around these parts for some while. While I usually like to joke around and not take anything too seriously I have had some persisting thoughts regarding trading policy here at backpack.tf which I wanted to share, and to garner your opinions on. I appreciate your time in reading this post. The topic I want to discuss is backpack.tf’s rules regarding bans for trading with scammers. The current rules are as follows: “If a trader unknowingly fails to meet these expectations, bans will be issued as follows: (1) First offense - 3 days to 1 week depending on the severity of the action (2) Second offense - 2 weeks to 2 months depending on the severity of the action (3) Third offense - permanent ban (may be appealed after 6 months) If a trader knowingly fails to meet these expectations and is found to intentionally trade with scammers, the ban will instantly be a permanent one.” Source: As a bit of history, some of you will remember years ago, SteamREP would mark/ban traders who would repeatedly (or intentionally) trade with scammers. The rule was later removed in 2016 after much criticism. Source: https://forums.steamrep.com/threads/policy-change-trades-with-scammer-policy-end-of-life.119528/ The criticism leading to removal was: honest traders were being marked; essentially sharing the same punishment as scammers themselves, some of which whom have no remorse for taking what they can from other people. To many of these traders their ban marked a halt to their trading activities. It was a harsh punishment for a few mistakes. Around the time this SteamREP rule was removed, backpack.tf implemented its own set of rules. It was only after then that backpack.tf would begin to ban traders from using its service as punishment for trades with scammers. Although the rules set by backpack.tf are much less strict than that of SteamREP’s old rules, they could still be improved to make the trading environment better for everyone. The way backpack.tf is stacking up bans for this type of offense is becoming reminiscent of old SteamREP policies. As backpack.tf holds an immense role in trading currently, the ability to use it freely is essential to most traders and its bans have an impact on how people trade. The current rules dictate: three strikes, you’re out. Regardless of how long you’ve been trading, regardless of how many trades you’ve made. You only get three strikes. In my time here, I know of many well-known traders awaiting their third strike that will abruptly conclude their trading career. Many of these people possess thousands of dollars worth of items. As a long-time trader I’ve personally never been banned for trading with scammers. However, I have most definitely made mistakes while trading. Those mistakes were accepting offers I otherwise wouldn’t have accepted, miscounting keys, listing the wrong effect hat on the market, listing items for the wrong price, rushing changes into my bot without proper testing, and so on. After over 17,000 trades and nearly 100,000 Steam Community Market transactions, I feel that I can safely say that I’m an experienced trader. Even then, I believe I could make mistakes and no longer have the same freedom to trade. I enjoy trading and it’s not something I’d want to happen. I go to great lengths to avoid trading with scammers. I have authored and utilize a userscript for checking a user’s reputation more easily. My Unusual trading bot also utilizes 7 different resources for checking accounts. If anything seems amiss I must manually check my potential trading partner. However, there are times where I’m either tired or not very cautious and mistakes do happen. There are times where I’ve forgotten to check a user’s reputation before accepting a trade. Though, thankfully it never resulted in me trading with a scammer. I suspect that many others aren’t as fortunate as I am. They would be more susceptible to making mistakes and accruing strikes which ultimately end their trading activities. Ever since the rules for background checks were established they haven’t seen much change. The current rules do not consider length of time between aberrant trades. It could be a month, it could be over a year. Going a year without trading with any scammers is a long time. Should a trader be so severely punished for trading with a scammer for the third time, even if it’s been over a year since their last trade? Please bear in mind, I am not saying that we should make the rules so relaxed that we condone trading with scammers. I do not think scammers should have an easy way of offloading their stolen goods. I myself would not do anything differently if the rules were to be changed. I don’t know the perfect solution to the problem, but I want to propose a change. Like a driver’s license points systems for traffic violations, make it so that a trader collects points for each trade with a scammer. When the trader collects so many points within a certain period of time they are permanently banned. The points would reset after a certain period of time, say a year. This should be fair for everyone in the long-term of things and still prevent traders from trading with scammers. Thanks for reading. This is something that’s been on my mind getting back into trading and I’d like to hear everyone else’s thoughts on the matter, and if anyone else has any other suggestions for rule changes.
  2. 11 points


    Well, the most profitable way of trading is sharking, but you have to sell your soul to do it.
  3. 10 points

    I bought something on SCM from a scammer without knowing

    I‘m calling the police.
  4. 9 points

    Does TF2 Trading help you in real life business?

    Yes and no. The TF2 economy is an economy, and it is certainly real and functions like any other economy, so knowledge gained from it can be (to some degree) applied to any other economy in the real world. I would say that knowledge of real life economy/business would help immensely with TF2 trading, more than the other way around (any lesson you can learn from TF2 trading can be learned in 1/10 the time from a textbook)....but if you have significant knowledge of real-world economics, you're not likely to waste it on something as limited as TF2 trading. So basically, TF2 trading knowledge isn't worth anything. Grab an economics textbook if you actually want knowledge.
  5. 9 points
    Teeny Tiny Cat

    Best Discord Conversations.

  6. 8 points

    Why are people like this?

    Sorry man, but you're the asshole in this story.
  7. 7 points
    Big Ol Bessie

    Pricing problems.

    So like I’ve been watching this happen for years now and I’m astounded that no one else has done anything. So with bots constantly lowballing unusuals and people scared to offer anything a little higher than what a bot is paying is fucking the community. eg. Burning flames wraith wrap worth 700 keys “obv not” wraith wrap is sold for 50% off at 350 keys. the next day buy orders finna only be paying 125-150 maybe and then no one will be willing to even offer the 350 keys it was originally bought at a massive discount. It it is an endless cycle of when a hat is bought it is constantly lowered in price because of bot buy orders. I’m surprised unusuals can reach up to 1000 keys anymore. And the sad thing is, it’s the same 3-4 kids making massive price resugestions over and over again. Why you guys enjoy destroying items just for accepted price suggestions to get you to your next fake belt? Keep breaking the tf2 economy it’s fun buying massive unusuals for 90% off lmfao. Tf2=ded edit - actually I take that back stop breaking tf2s economy, We don’t got enough traders/players to recover. Start focusing on fucking up dota 2 more
  8. 7 points

    Fortnite purchases Question

    Only you can prevent Vbucks scams.
  9. 7 points
    Jason Le


    C L I C K B A I T This isn't new at all
  10. 6 points

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    It's an interesting topic. It's actually quite funny, because we wouldn't have this discussion about this rule if people didn't start going on witch hunts and check the item history of every item that are valued at 15+ keys, just to get their competition banned and get all the profits for themselves. Unfortunately we are living in a time full of capitalists, who will go above and beyond to get that extra little buck, up to a point where morality plays no role. About the rule itself, there is nothing wrong with it, it's more that the people I described above are pissing me off. Back in the day - as far as I'm aware - only people who repeatedly/knowingly traded with scammers got reported, because in most cases it was super obvious, but now it's witch hunt time
  11. 5 points

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    Have you even read anything in the thread so far? The whole reason this discussion is happening is because people don't always realize they're trading with scammers until it's too late. We're human, we make mistakes. Sometimes these mistakes cost us a lot, as a few people ITT have stated. Knowingly trading with scammers is one thing, accidentally doing so because you're in a rush or have something else that requires more attention at the time is quite another. In my opinion, as far as the topic goes - I feel the rules were created with the best of intentions, and should be treated as such. However, for large traders it can become an issue, as three trades over four or more years can cause the death of your career, as has been stated numerous times. I do like Torb's idea, though, where you lose a point every 6 months. Maybe in addition to that, reaching 6 total points could result in a mark? In my opinion, accidentally trading with scammers two or three times by mistake is one thing, but if you haven't learned after five or six, at that point it's on you.
  12. 5 points
    Scott Bakula

    Price of certain hats

    A) They're miscs, allowing players to stack with other unusual effects B ) They were removed from the unusual pool, making them very rare in comparison to most everything else.
  13. 5 points
    Torb | Elite Spell Trader™

    A more modern unusual trading guide?

    Honestly, theres no actual guides that teach you how to do it, most youtubers glorify it as the kind of thing where you buy a good quicksell, list it and someone gives you a good offer, they dont go into the 90% of stuff thats important ie market analysis, negotiation, when to dump a hat, when a hats underpriced/overpriced ect. Honestly the best way to figure out how things work is by doing them. I started in around septemberish 2017. My first unusual i made around 6 keys off and i thought "wow this is easy, ill be rich in no time". I proceeded to lose 5 keys on my next 5 hats (1 key each roughly), but i kept going, learning from my mistakes and figuring out what sells and what doesn't, how to negotiate ect. Theres many trading styles and different traders have different ones. I myself found that i like quickbuying and requickselling hats, im rather impatient and i dont like sitting on items for a long time so that style suits me, my trading style is about flipping hats, not maximizing profit. Then theres the polar opposite, people who just sit on hats till someone whos very interested gives them an unrefusable offer. Theres many trading styles in between also. It's really just about finding what suits you by trial and error and going with that, and doing it with confidence. I would probably say that i was a horrible trader up until december 2017. I was way too impatient, ready to take a loss just to get pure, which many new traders will do, and they get taken advantage of due to their desperateness for keys. Taking losses is something that should be avoided at all costs, at worst try and break even/profit a small amount and move on. If you find something sells well, try and buy it again as its likely an easy sell. If you find something hard to sell, probably avoid it unless you get a good deal on it, as its likely a hard sell. To end this, id like to say that nobody can truly tell you how to trade, every trade is different in its own unique way, and thats the beauty of trading, everyone has their own way of doing it.
  14. 5 points
    Scott Bakula

    Tips For Starting As A Low Tier?

    The best tip is this: Don't. With the heavy saturation of bots in today's market, combined with the massive grind it takes to get anywhere profitable without an initial investment (10-12 keys minimum, 14-16 recommended, 18-20 best), it's simply not worth trying to start with bottom-level trading. If you do want to press on though, read this guide:
  15. 5 points
    Woifi The Viking

    Rules for Unusual Price Suggestions

    Some clarifications and additional infos: ^This has been added to the guide, a more detailed explanation of those can be found here: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5b15768e44325a5c6d075852#comment-5b435572cf6c7558a4778c3c ^Currently the $ price of keys on backpack.tf is quite outdated and another ref-suggestion is needed to update it. ^Many people asked if an item has a strangifier or not, so here is a good way to look this up yourselves! Searching for a strangifier on the SCM also works.
  16. 5 points

    Bazaar.tf is shutting down

    Is it a popularity issue? I find bazaar to be one of the smoothest sites to use and by that I mean in terms of both efficiency and simplicity. It almost never lags/bugs and doesn't host any ads or what not (Totally not directed to outpost). I get that it is deserted but it did seem severely underrated while it was up. RIP you will be missed.
  17. 5 points

    Bazaar.tf is shutting down

    Aw man I won't be able to search for an item and find it in a trade that was posted 8 months ago because the seller forgot to close it anymore!
  18. 5 points
    Scott Bakula

    End of the line crate questions

    This is incorrect. If an EotL crate produces an unusual, it will be any hat from the regular unusual pool (i.e. nothing retired or from the cases) with one of the EotL effects. The reason most of the EotL effects are rare is a combination of having a massive pool of hats to draw from plus the fact that the effects only come from a singular crate which is not being opened very often nowadays (it's the same with the Robo Crate and the Robo effects).
  19. 5 points

    Changed Buy Order

    This is pretty common, especially amongst "big traders" who are too lazy to adjust all their buy orders if an unusual is typically being sold for less, and assume it's just the norm to not keep to their buy order if it does not benefit them. "It is your responsibility to keep your listings up to date and accurate. If you are found to be repeatedly changing your mind after receiving offers, you will receive a ban." - quote from the bp.tf rules, so it is wrong to not uphold your buy orders, it's just rare for people to report such a thing. I know the feeling of sending an offer matching someone's buy order only for them to decline, and I personally always uphold whatever buy orders I make even if I forget to update the prices on them.
  20. 5 points

    Unusual Quickbuying

    I usually do not buy based on X percentage, but rather by what other buyers seem to be paying and what I consider to be a reasonable price. Sometimes it's 50% off, sometimes it's 10% off.
  21. 5 points

    Level 100 vintage cosmetic collection.

    uhhh about that time to gather? https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198110248446#!/compare/1523318400/1523750400 https://gyazo.com/b96c3a0e9e30c481ce67be693a757706
  22. 4 points
    Woifi The Viking

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    So this was discussed a few weeks ago already and I think we posted there as well and explained things. Just like teeny I wanna give more general thoughts here than a Moderator reply. I guess I wanna roll things up from the beginning: Welcome to backpack.tf, is it reasonable to expect users who first use the site to check the rules? There is not a big red flashing window that pops up and says HERE ARE THE RULES, but the rules are linked everytime you want to make a listing (which is what most people use the site for), so I think the exposure of the rules is decent. On top of exposure the rules should be common sense as well for the most part. Don't trade with thieves? Sounds straightforward to me, you wouldn't wanna do that IRL either. Yet many people still act surprised when they first hear of that rule (possible AFTER they got banned for it already). Why is that? Is it just general carelessness when trading, or just lack of awareness? Maybe cause thieves IRL don't sell there stuff in stores, rather just privately (for the most part), yet in steam trading most trades are done privately. Maybe it's also about how to do research, how to perform a proper background check, and since people might not know that they are less likely to care/be aware about the topic in general. I'm not 100% sure about why, possibly there are many different reasons but for some reason many people don't seem to think about that aspect while starting out trading. The scenario of a guy was also brought up who just uses trade servers and never backpack.tf and then he gets banned as well. Those cases are super rare and not many of those are reported to begin with either, but it should still be common sense to not trade with thieves so even then the "excuse" is a rather thin one. So all the above could be reasons why the first strike happens, and keep in mind you still have to get reported as well for it. Speaking about getting reported, I do believe the reason why this discussion is brought up more often recently is cause of the increased number of reports on people for trading with scammers. Some people report their competition (good point masterminder), some notice those trades while digging through item histories for suggestions and report it that way. Ever since user reports are public there also seemed to be an increase in reports for trading with scammers. Maybe that caused some sort of bandwagoning. Whatever the factors are it makes me think about how many people go unreported, or did go unreported in previous days, and how many people for example got permabanned after their 10th trade with a scammer, but they were only reported 3 times for it. However I still wanna emphasize that it's way more important for us to catch the actual scammers, scam reports always take priority over trading with scammer reports (bonus hint for report mod applicants). Another reason that doesn't seem to be that intuitive to some people is the obvious alt thing. They just check steamrep/backpack.tf but nothing else. But if they have like 0 hours in games and no steam community profile and high value items already that's pretty obvious and not unreasonable to expect from users to check I would think. Also if you are unsure you can always ask report mods (in the discord preferably). Just some food for thought for the discussion, at the end I also just wanna mention that you can appeal a permanent ban as well, which could be seen as a 4th strike, and personally I think that's quite a few chances, even for the time span of a couple years.
  23. 4 points

    Scammer Experience

    So we got 3 problems here 1) You didnt do research of the item and didnt care about researching the price of said item 2) You obey scrap.tf's crap prices and not what bots would pay for said items 3) You are here complaining in a forum about a couple cent loss Solutions: 1) Grow up and deal with the loss of a couple pennies down the sewer 2) Be smart and do your research, look at price, then look at buyers/sellers!
  24. 4 points

    help me please

    they have temporary access to your steam since you entered your credentials. they can cancel the one you sent and send another trade offer. Users on steam can have the same exact name..... let me explain this. You log into a site with your credentials and the scammer gets partial access to your account. You send a trade offer via marketplace.tf into the site to "Marketplace.tf Bot 13" Scammer changes the name of his alt account to "Marketplace.tf Bot 13" and sends an identical offer to it from your partially hacked account. Scammer cancels your trade offer to the real "Marketplace.tf Bot 13" You have a confirmation that looks like the one you sent but its the one made by the scammer to fool you You confirm the offer and the scammer gets your items. Saying "No" and denying your mistake is your mistake. Face your mistakes, educate yourself on the scam so it doesn't happen to you again. It'll happen to you a third time if you don't
  25. 4 points

    A more modern unusual trading guide?

    Here's a guide - buy low sell high - make unusual suggestions to know whats good and what's bad. - use bp.tf discord. Alot of people who know how to trade well there. - pure is king. pure is king people crave it. - if there are multiple buyorders on a hat near BP price it's probably a good hat/underpriced. - promote items on different platforms. Advertise wherever you can - make yourself known. Build a reputation for yourself. Advertise yourself so people come to you. -30% off is a trap if the unusual is underpriced or is really good it's fine to buy it at 10-20% off. If it sucks then sometimes it's ok to ask for more than 50% off. Just let them know you don't really want it before hand so they don't instablock you. - backpack.tf is not a bible. Don't blindly follow. Learn the market.
  26. 4 points

    collector's items should do something

    I find it fascinating (not surprising, fascinating) that people spend hundreds of dollars on these items that have no difference from their dime a dozen counterparts other than having dark red text. If I'm gonna spend big bucks on virtual items I want to show off! I want people to know about it! Here's my idea: Kills with collectors quality items are shown with the weapons outlined in dark red (#AA0000) in the kill feed, kinda like how aussie weapon kill icons are different. If it's a collectors cosmetic then the wearer's name is outlined in the kill feed. The outline would have to be pretty thin to keep it clear which team the wearer is on. The outline could also show up on the in-game scoreboard and text-chat which may come in handy if you wanna spot an impersonator. This is basically a simplified version of websites and community servers giving flashy name styles to donators. Collector's items are rare and Valve already added player trails and voice-changing items (Halloween Spells) so this doesn't seem too outlandish. If we really wanna get fancy we could make it so that the red gets darker/ more noticeable the more collectors items you have equipped. Y'all got any other ideas/thoughts?
  27. 4 points

    Making Realistic Profile pictures w/Photoshop!

    These are pretty poor quality. SFM would be better.
  28. 4 points

    How long do price suggestions normally take?

    In general, around 6 hours to ~2 months. In your case (assuming we're talking about the roboactive officer's ushanka) your hat is unpriced, and the guidelines for unpriced unusuals are that two sales are required. If only one sale exists, the sale has to be at least a month old. More info on that can be found here, the first thing that appears under part 3.
  29. 4 points

    Bazaar.tf is shutting down

    In my view Bazaar.tf was better than Outpost, especially during the many months that Outpost had laggy ads that bypassed adblock/uorigin, including malicious ads apparently? And their solutions were to blame it on the ad providers (along the lines of 'we don't control the ads, they do', when in actuality, they have a choice as to who provides their ads), and "hey guys we reduced premium price! Want the ads gone? Bit o' money please!", until they finally, finally managed to get rid of those ads. I do have a gripe with trades not being autoclosed due to inactivity on Bazaar, but overall it was just a smoother site to use. Unfortunately, it just didn't gain enough traction in the end and slowly died off, so I'm not surprised that it's closing down.
  30. 4 points

    Best taunt effect based on a hat effect? (Imaginary)

    Taunt-sized Knifestorm would be badass. Any other weather effects would also be cool.
  31. 4 points

    My Aplogies

    If you're trying to appeal your site ban you should do it through the site, not on the forums.
  32. 4 points

    My Aplogies

    A few months back I was banned for trading with scammers. I have been an avid Team Fortress trader for a long time, built bonds and friendships that are almost comparable to real life friends, only to let myself destroy those bonds with terrible mistakes. I’ve treated admins with disrespect, only to remember that I was the one who’d brought this upon myself. I want to sincerely apologize to those I’ve mistreated, and most importantly supporting the toxicity of the Team Fortress trading community otherwise known as scammers. I want to also apologize for the intentionional ban evading. In the heat of the moment I was overwhelmed by being banned off a site that is vital to trading. None of this is an excuse, I should have rethought what I was going to do, I should have never traded with scammers and made sure they were legitimate members of our community. I myself want to become a more respectable, honest, and reliable trader in our community. I’m asking for a second chance. I’m asking for forgiveness and an opportunity in our community. To add on to this. Teeny, I want to ask for your forgiveness on what I’ve said to you in the past. Even if this appeal isn’t accepted, I don’t want to be the person that everyone thinks is a demeaning player with no remorse. If I could take back everything I’ve said, and done I would do it in a heartbeat and change who I am. I want to change, I want to help, and I want to be part of this great community more than anything. To all of you reading this I appreciate everything you’ve done in keeping our great community safer, fun, and amazing. Thank you to all who took the precious time out of their day to read this appeal. With full remorse and changed person - Pixxious
  33. 4 points
    Torb | Elite Spell Trader™

    Unusual Effect Tier List

    yes i know, though this just seems like you took the average prices for effects and clumped them together. Chiropetera Venenata AntiFreeze Misty Skull Cloudy Moon Sunbeams Abduction Harvest Moon These are all hardly god tier, high tier rather. Ancient Codex Subatomic Galactic Codex Atomic Voltaic Hat Protector These are all hardly high tier Haunted Phantasm Jr. Ghastly Ghosts Jr. Green Black Hole Amaranthine The Ooze Stare From Beyond These aren't mid tier, theyre easily higher In summary, i hate to be a dick but theres so much wrong with this list
  34. 3 points

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    Some interesting points have been made. The community should be more open about issues such as this. Regardless of the outcome of this post, I still feel it's valuable for people to share their views, and give their own input on the ways the community could be bettered. I feel backpack.tf has always been very good at adapting, whether it's their rules or features to its site, and I'd still like to believe that the admins have the best intentions for its users. I'd like to expand a bit more on my original post, hopefully not re-iterating myself too much. I'm very against allowing traders to trade with scammers. This post is not about allowing traders to do as they please. I hope my post didn't come off as that way. I know some wouldn't care whether they trade with a scammer or not, and some that do care. People that trade with scammers should be punished. I detest scammers. I wish they'd just go away, but obviously that won't happen. It's great that it's been made more difficult for scammers to offload their stolen goods. No community cares as much about this as the TF2 community, and that's one of the things I like about it. Some of my close friends have been scammed of their items and I only wish they would have talked to me before doing anything risky. Some of my less trader-savvy friends do ask me, and I've always given them my advice on what to do, and maybe I've prevented a few people from being scammed. Though I can't help them much if it's already too late. One of my friends that I used to regularly play with bought a Vivid Plasma Head Prize from me only to be scammed of it around a month later from a friend who he thought he could trust. He loved that hat. It was his dream hat, and it was taken from him. I felt really bad about it. It was also a hat that I grew quite fond of, and it was nice that I'd at least be able to see it around when we'd play together. No more could that be. I was very surprised that bot.tf only recently implemented features for checking obvious alts when it should've been there from the start. It was only after bots being banned that something was done. Seeing as how many Unusual bots were running on bot.tf, it blows my mind that many of them were able to avoid being banned for so long. I do not think bots should be treated any differently than human traders. When I was building my Unusual bot the first thing I wrote was a way to check for alts. In fact, I wrote it over a year ago, well before I even began writing my Unusual bot. As it's very extensive, the feature took probably over a dozen hours to write and test. I didn't get any use out of it until I decided to write my Unusual bot back around April this year. It's easily one of the most important features I've built into it. I did make a few changes to it before getting my bot up, particularly including more sources to have more data points to check from. Account hours used to be a dead give-away of whether an account was an alt or not, though they are hidden on many profiles now. Back when SteamREP's rules were in place I would use backpack.tf automatic for selling Unusuals, which I also modified to be more strict on checking for alts. backpack.tf's own tool could not prevent you from trading with scammer alts, unless the account was banned on SteamREP or backpack.tf. Though backpack.tf automatic was used for selling items. Scammers would rarely ever buy anything from you, and if they did it was hardly that harmful. I still wouldn't want to trade with them regardless, and the feature I wrote did prevent me from selling a few hats to obvious alts, so it was worth doing. What MasterMinder wrote was something I also wanted to say. It's not that these types of trades weren't happening before, it's more that no one was reporting them. Rules are rules, whether people are reported are not. If you want to use the site they must be followed. The proposal I suggested might've been too lax, though I was thinking about the time I got my first speeding ticket. I was driving a bit faster than I should've. I got pulled over and received a ticket. It was my first offense and I now had 2 points on my license. If I wanted to keep my license to drive in good standing I needed to be more careful about my driving. I learned that the State is very forgiving when it comes to violations. You would need to have accumulated 12 points to have your license reexamined. That's 6 times of what my offense was! And, even after examination you still may be able to keep your license. Obviously, you should be careful while driving as your carelessness could either harm yourself or others. When I was pulled over the officer reminded me of this. Since then I've avoided receiving any other offenses and my points should be cleared in around 4 months. Now, I know trading with scammers and traffic offenses are two different things, though it's interesting that offenses which do lead to people's deaths on a daily basis are still able to be forgiven if you're able drive in accordance to law. I'm not overly worried about myself trading with scammers. I'm quite responsible, though, I do admit that I'm not perfect and I do make mistakes from time-to-time. The rule change is about what's reasonable to expect of traders. I do think this rule impacts high-volume traders the most. Just to put some numbers into perspective: I've kept a trading spreadsheet of nearly every Unusual I've traded since the beginning of 2016 and it contains 4,320 Unusuals! OK, so maybe not all of those will apply to the rules. Many I've received off the market. After filtering to only Unusuals that weren't bought off the market and which were over 15 keys (based on my personal quicksell value of the hat, so this number would actually be higher), that comes to 1917 Unusuals. An Unusual is bought, then sold, resulting in generally 2 trades per Unusual, so the actual number of trades comes to around 3800, and I do check for alts regardless of what the trade value is. That's quite a lot of trades to go without trading with scammers! It amazes me because I do not consider myself a very careful person in a lot of cases. Over the past week my bot has bought a total of 35 Unusuals, all of which were over 15 keys in value. A total of 5 scammer/scammer alt accounts had attempted to sell Unusuals to the bot. These are their accounts: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198217562733 - Marked on SR. https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198056213049 - Marked on SR. https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198828760010 - This doesn't look terribly obvious based on profile alone but still has some easy give-aways if you know how to check accounts. https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198085171374 - I'm not sure why this account appears so empty now, as I don't think it appeared so when I last checked it. The account has a reasonable age, steam level, and playtime, except only 1 hour in TF2. https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198449476400 - This has low account age, hours, and low usage on backpack.tf. Likely alt. I usually block these accounts, and I've reported a few. I probably should report more so that no one else trades with them. Though that does take time and effort on my part and I mostly just want to complete my trades Being able to appeal after 6 months is somewhat fair, though this still puts you out of the game. In the event I'd get permanently banned I would just cash out all my items and stop trading maybe altogether, which I sort of did last year. Attempting to trade without the use of backpack.tf would just not be worthwhile to me. As an example, TF2Outpost has always had strict rules for trading with scammers. Many high-volume traders eventually ended up being banned after enough time. I could name many... but I'm sure most that were around back then knew who they were. There were even a few backpack.tf moderators who have made the mistake. They're not perfect either. The way a lot of scammers operate is that they attempt to sell their stolen goods to buy orders, and if that doesn't work they will often sell the goods to scrap.tf or any other sites that allows them to automatically offload their goods. The good thing about preventing them from selling to buy orders is that at least they're not making as much profit. Selling to buy orders will almost always yield the profit for most scammers.Though I have seen other bots trade with alts that my bot was able to pick up. They could be making more of an effort. It's not that difficult to avoid most alt accounts, but no one is perfect either.
  35. 3 points

    Pricing problems.

    1. The Burning Law was never priced at 2,000 keys. If there were ever any sales at 2,000 keys, they were not shown in any suggestion. https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Law/Tradable/Craftable/13 2. It was priced at 1,150 keys because one sold for a pan, yes. Its price was set at the midpoint of a pan's price at that time, 1100-1200 keys. That was the only valid sale shown in the suggestion. Had there been any other valid sales, they would have been taken into account and added to the range. Suggestions are made based on sales. Prices are set based on the evidence provided in those suggestions. If you have any evidence to prove that a price is still accurate, you're welcome to make your own suggestion, or post it in the comments of one that is currently open. And if that evidence outweighs that shown in the suggestion, it will be rejected. Backpack.tf does not, and never has, set prices for items. It only reflects items' values based on recent market activity. An item worth 1,000 keys may get plenty of offers at 500, but if it actually sells for 500 keys multiple times, then can you really say it's worth 1,000 keys anymore? And if that 1,000 key item sells for other 1,000 key items even more often, maybe that's cause to say the 500 key item is now worth 1,000. But I'm probably wasting my time arguing with you.
  36. 3 points
    Woifi The Viking

    I bought something on SCM from a scammer without knowing

    No cause you can't check. Unless you knew it beforehand.
  37. 3 points
    Teeny Tiny Cat

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    This tbh. I won't say too much for now, since I want you guys to have an open forum to air your views and these threads can turn into users vs mods pretty easily. I will say that 2 chances before a perm ban, plus the ability to appeal a perm ban after a few months, seems more than reasonable to me. That's essentially 4 chances. I understand some users make more trades than others, but honestly, if you're trading so much that you're not able to effectively background check then you might want to look at what you can manage and what you can't. Plenty of very high volume traders have never been banned, and I suspect it's more the ones who are personally against trading with scammers and have incentive beyond avoiding breaking a rule who fit that category.
  38. 3 points

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    Hi. I go by a lot of different names, but I’ve been here for ~5 years now, and have traded some pretty crazy stuff. Although I’ve never been banned for trading with a scammer, I’ve certainly come close, and hope (but don’t expect) that this will be taken under advisement. I have no doubt that if I had made nearly as much transactions as Julia, or some of the other people with major influence in this economy, I would have made a few mistakes, and the fact that one mistake every 2 years, or one every 40,000 trades, so long as the person reaches 3x that, can lead to a permanent ban.... It just doesn’t seem like the right way to enforce ethics. I support banning people for trading with scammers 100%, but also agree that there should be more that goes into it.
  39. 3 points

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    If it is a system of 'our rules, our site, get lost', that's fine. I will continue my patronage, but I'll view the management in a different light. But we've all spoken to the moderators at one point or another, I think they are very reasonable people who are looking to make the fairest rules for everyone. If they didn't give a crap and did not care about what we thought, Wolfi would not be unsurreptitiously watching this thread in the background haha! As long as they give us a decent rationale for the rules, I'm happy. At this point in time, I don't think the rules are entirely fair though
  40. 3 points
    Torb | Elite Spell Trader™

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    Definitely agree that removing all the points ect is too lax, but as it stands right now, for people with 2 past bans, they risk any trade they make to be their last perse. I've used a bot.tf bot and there's definitely been moments that could've screwed me and gotten me perma'd. https://imgur.com/a/xRHVlJs heres just a few i took the time to find, had any of them been accepted i'd likely be perma banned. Onto my ideas: Either every 6 months 1 point goes away, much like how you can appeal a perma ban in 6 mths assuming you made no trades with scammers, this would work the same, you prove you haven't traded any scammers and 1 point is removed from your record. The repeat offenders would still be banned but the innocent traders who occasionally make a human error have a shot at redemption. My other idea is that you have to have made 3 trades with scammers in a 6 month period for a perma ban to be put on your account. Not 100% sure how this would work, but it does feel harsh that people can screw up a couple times in the past, and then a year or 2 later 1 mistake and they're gone. Anyways, these are just my thoughts, curious to hear other peoples.
  41. 3 points

    Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

    Hey all, for the people who don’t know me, I’m the Hugh with the red sun picture, another of the unusual hat traders. For those that do know me, you probably think I’ve been trading for a while now. I’ve been trading unusuals for 3.5 years at this point, and while I haven’t racked up as much experience as Julia (I’m sitting at 11k trades, according to Steam), I agree with what she’s said and to manage the best I can with the rules, I have changed my actions. I’m one of the people on my last strike for trading with scammers – the next one will be my last. I honestly cannot remember the first time I was banned, but I definitely remember the second time. It was almost two years ago. I was in a rush to get out of the house to meet my then girlfriend for a date. I overlooked the red strikethrough, and that cost me. It probably sounds like an honest mistake, but nonetheless, I was disappointed in myself over that situation as it was entirely avoidable. Since then, I am meticulous now (1) I do not rush under any circumstances, (2) I don’t trade if I don’t have a good ten minutes to sort things out (3) I will hassle the report moderators in asking ‘can I trade this person?’ every time I’m unsure. The point I’m trying to make is that, while I am definitely experienced enough to know what to do, being human makes me liable to make mistakes eventually – one of these is going to slip through the cracks despite my best efforts to prevent it. When it does, I will be permabanned on this platform, and since backpack.tf is so essential to trading nowadays, not unrealistically speaking, it would spell the end of my trading career, and I will have 30-40k USD of hats I locked away. I’d like to think that I’m not the kind of person that the rules are looking to punish. Trading with scammers intentionally, sure. Repeated negligence, sure. I cannot speak for all the people who own bots, they’re in an entirely worse situation. I do everything the old fashioned way, and I’m still in this situation, so I can’t imagine how difficult it is to run bots and somehow ensure your bots do not auto-accept a scammer trade. I can already think of a few situations: glitches in code, updates that break code, bot randomly just stops checking for scammers and 3 autoaccepted scammer/alt trades later, permabanned. My view of the current ruleset is they lack forgiveness. Whilst I do think the current ruleset is too strict, I think Julia’s solution is too lax. Don’t entirely forgive me and reset me to 0 strikes at the end of each year, that could be abused by unscrupulous traders. I’d be happy with reducing my strike count by 1 each year of no trading with scammer bans. At this rate though, I will eventually also be banned, and I hope that does not happen. Very interested for bot owners and the people that run bot.tf to weigh in here PS: I have saved the hat that got me banned the 2nd time, as a persisting reminder: http://backpack.tf/item/5035874920. The day I made that mistake was the 9th of September 2016
  42. 3 points
    Daddy Alex

    help me please

    Sorry but it looks like you were scammed exactly like I described here. There is no way to get your items back. You can make a report on this account https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198830605478 by clicking red flag icon, but this is a throwaway account for this scammer anyway. Read those blog entries, clean up your Steam account as described and learn to never enter your credentials unless you opened the website by yourself. ... Wait, you already had a similar thread a week ago, did you fall for this again because you decided not to read the answers and the MP blog entry?
  43. 3 points
    Scott Bakula

    Why are people like this?

    This. As a collector, one of the most frustrating/annoying things is that people think that because we're collectors that we'll either eagerly buy anything remotely related to our collection or that we'll pay some sort of premium "collector's price" for items. It's rather insulting and tiring.
  44. 3 points

    Digital art commission

    Digital art commission Price as listed in the sheet contact me to discuss about comission on twitter @nattmadmak steam : steamcommunity.com/id/madgothicgirl or my email : [email protected] Please read text at the bottom of the sheet
  45. 3 points
    Daddy Alex

    Trading Help [Spelled Items]

    Imho the question should be not "how much it's worth but "how high I can try to sell it atm". Start at the last page of classifieds for this item and make your way down until you get somewhere here. People sell this item with halloween paint for 4-5 keys and up. Then it's up to you how quickly you want to sell it. Also can check https://marketplace.tf/items/30397;6
  46. 3 points

    Making Realistic Profile pictures w/Photoshop!

    You're asking people to pay around a key for an image of them made up of just images from the tf2 will?
  47. 3 points

    Is a buy order binding?

    I think it really depends on the buyer to be honest, there are certain buyers who will always accept their buy order like Jarool, while there are some other buyers who I will not name, that tend to put the highest buy order and then let it rot when someone sends an offer and just ignore it, which is why I always take a screenshot of the classies before I send an offer to those buyers. Personally I have a lot of buy orders, and sometimes I have prices I overlook that are too high or outdated, but I still accept my buy orders because I know I despise people who don't, and even if I made a mistake it's my mistake, so I'll own up to it. It really depends on the buyer for classifieds, if you know who's trusted or not trusted then you can/can't rely on classifieds. As for bots, a lot of them get multiple trade offers within seconds or at the same time, and bot.tf bots have to manually accept trades over 15 keys, as well as steam goes down a lot, so bots are not always running 24/7, thus you might have items on hold, or trades may just sit there. If a bot declines for the buy order it might be maxed out on stock, but if not, just report it, bots are not immune to bp.tf rules
  48. 3 points

    Changed Buy Order

    It's always a good idea to keep a screenshot before you send a trade to a buyorder. This way you can be sure to have sufficient evident whilst reporting.
  49. 2 points
    Mengh facepalms.

    Someone sent me a message saying I might get trade banned. Should I trust them?

    You never get told by Steam whether you have been reported or flagged for anything, until they actually hit you with the ban onto your account. It's most likely that this person is getting you to add some random person who is trying to pretend to be some Steam Moderator or Database and tell you to trade them items to them to remove the report (utter rubbish). Either that or they tell you to appeal through a phishing link that you should not click on. Almost certain to be a scammer. Remove and move on.
  50. 2 points
    Teleporter of Bread

    Best crates to unbox?

    Crate 83 is pretty good, housing some decent killstreak kits like the Rocket Launcher, Scattergun, Sniper Rifle, or Shotgun. However you can also get killstreak kits for Ubersaw, GRU, Spy-Cicle, and Axtinguisher which aren't as desirable. Personally I've had my best unboxing luck with this series, but good luck with whatever you choose.