The growing concern with the future of the site; the absence of the Site Dev and overall inactivity of Admins/Moderators.

[HarryG]

23 minutes ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

I have accepted responsibility for many things in here, but I don't owe any of you my time particularly when I have devoted countless hours over several years. I am allowed to take a break, and I don't really care if you understand that or not.

Then go take a break by all means, but why are you as opposed to sin who's supposed to be picking up your slack responding to everything here? Shouldn't the opposite be true? I'm not saying I don't understand you can take a break, that is literally coming out of nowhere; I'm saying blame should be placed where it is deserved. You literally went from saying that you have been slacking recently to saying that none of it is your fault and that you're allowed a break and that you don't owe anybody your time; that's fine, but pick a lane or let sin take over like he's supposed to do. If sin's new policy is to only reply to things that he's called out on with photographic evidence because he can just ban whoever disagrees with him from the discord, then that's the new policy, but it doesn't mean that replies that are responding to prompts nobody is offering (for instance, that you don't deserve a break) are applicable to the discussion.

 

And shuffle, if apologizing for everything (most of the time only when forced to; I think it's safe to say if I didn't have screenshots of that incident sin would have just continued to pretend like it didn't happen just judging by his attitude towards the subject) after 9 pages of complaints about the sites is an acceptable solution to the numerous problems and topics raised by site users in this thread, then I can understand why most people are complacent with the changes. As somebody passionate about this community I just don't think it's enough

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

Quote

 

 

1 hour ago, HarryG said:

All in all, considering the pretty lackluster responses (especially from sin who if anything should be fielding every question here as opposed to what he did which was become admin and then disappear for 24 hours), maybe people should stop complaining about the way backpack runs if they don't want even more questionable promotions to occur

 

3 minutes ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

Sin can't both respond to every question here and actually perform the duties he has said he will do (handle reports, motivate, ensure accountability, etc.) to create the change that this thread was meant to inspire.

 

 

Well, Harry was prolly outraged, cause of:

4 hours ago, ѕιи said:

I was out of the house most of yesterday so I never got the time to sit down properly and respond.

 

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

2 minutes ago, HarryG said:

but why are you as opposed to sin who's supposed to be picking up your slack responding to everything here?

In all honesty, she has been pinged quite a few more times, than sin

[HarryG]

Just now, Master Throne Crimson said:

In all honesty, she has been pinged quite a few more times, than sin

I don't even know how to ping sin, his name has weird characters that don't show up when i do @, which may be intentional or not but you get notified when you quote somebody as well. That's why I'm responding to this so fast. If sin can't respond to the community in the thread AND be an admin but teeny can, what was the point of promoting him? It just seems confusing 

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

1 minute ago, HarryG said:

I don't even know how to ping sin, his name has weird characters that don't show up when i do @, which may be intentional or not but you get notified when you quote somebody as well. That's why I'm responding to this so fast. If sin can't respond to the community in the thread AND be an admin but teeny can, what was the point of promoting him? It just seems confusing 

I noticed yesterday that the pinging system is a bit... off here. If you type @ and right away paste a non-formatted copy of his name, he shows up for me. The copy paste part tho: It to be kinda annoying to have to do that every time you wanna ping the new admin XD

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

He can respond. He has responded. He will respond more probably. He was busy for a day. Chill out.

[HarryG]

7 minutes ago, Master Throne Crimson said:

I noticed yesterday that the pinging system is a bit... off here. If you type @ and right away paste a non-formatted copy of his name, he shows up for me. The copy paste part tho: It to be kinda annoying to have to do that every time you wanna ping the new admin XD

Either way, here are more specific questions I have for presumably sin (one is for shuffle as well) but I guess he can't be admin AND respond to the thread even though teeny is overworked and can do just that: 

 

1. Sin, why did you only apologize for this when you were confronted with photographic evidence proving you were lying about it?

2. For what reason does shuffle believe Sin can't be an admin and respond to every question in this thread if teeny is an admin and can do just that?

3. Sin if you have so much time to devote to being admin now how were you able to disappear from this arguably pretty important thread for such a long time; wouldn't that imply you're active less than teeny right now? That would ring true with how you said you hadn't been active recently an hour BEFORE you were promoted and then said that you actually had a lot of time to devote to being admin.

 

Respond whenever you want, but don't say you didn't see the post, I can see you right there at the bottom of the screen https://gyazo.com/2c352c0c3f145625595ea9925b567b1d

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

1 minute ago, HarryG said:

teeny is overworked and can do just that

Well, Teeny isn't doing any Admin duties atm so it kinda makes sense

[ѕιи]

6 minutes ago, HarryG said:

Either way, here are more specific questions I have for presumably sin (one is for shuffle as well) but I guess he can't be admin AND respond to the thread even though teeny is overworked and can do just that: 

 

1. Sin, why did you only apologize for this when you were confronted with photographic evidence proving you were lying about it?

2. For what reason does shuffle believe Sin can't be an admin and respond to every question in this thread if teeny is an admin and can do just that?

3. Sin if you have so much time to devote to being admin now how were you able to disappear from this arguably pretty important thread for such a long time; wouldn't that imply you're active less than teeny right now? That would ring true with how you said you hadn't been active recently an hour BEFORE you were promoted and then said that you actually had a lot of time to devote to being admin.

 

Respond whenever you want, but don't say you didn't see the post, I can see you right there at the bottom of the screen https://gyazo.com/2c352c0c3f145625595ea9925b567b1d

 

1. When you say "this" what exactly are you referring to? I need some more clarification.

2. I assume that's the question for Shuffle since I can't really answer it.

3. I was busy for one day, and obviously that's not an accurate representation of my general availability. Even now I'm working on the report backlog. Please try to relax. 

[HarryG]

6 minutes ago, ѕιи said:

 

1. When you say "this" what exactly are you referring to? I need some more clarification.

I am referring to this post made by me 

 

"This thread has ranged from non answers (seeing a lot of “I can’t really answer that to some of the tough questions) to lies to save face (sin, do you want me to post the DMs I have with teeny about how you had me blocked after muting me and how she had to get you to unblock me despite being apparently overburdened?) to people asking if they can also be mod. Like I said, when people are promoted without anybody to hold them accountable I guess they can say whatever they  want and ban whoever they please. With that in mind coupled with how many legitimately good suggestions and valid criticisms have been ignored thus far in this thread, I’m not optimistic. 

 

 

EDIT: Here's confirmation of that by the way from @Teeny Tiny Cat . Kind of unprofessional for you to lie about that in the public thread when I had screenshots, but you're already admin sin, so like I said, who is there to stop you from abusing said power now? https://gyazo.com/250cef3d58049401e2b4e038eba2dc59"

 

 

To which YOU responded:

 

"I'm confused because the situations you're bringing up happened at different times. Back in February (which I honestly thought happened earlier than then, so that's my fault), I did have you blocked and whenever I muted you back then you were unable to contact me to ask me about it; I'm not denying that. Teeny told me to unblock you because it wouldn't make any sense for me to help with comm mod duties if users weren't able to contact me if they had issues with what happened. I agree that it was wrong, and I'm sorry that I did it. Since then, and even now, I haven't had you blocked on Discord.

 

Now, 3-4 weeks ago whenever you were banned from the discord? I never had you blocked. You were unable to DM me because we didn't share any servers together, and on top of that I never received a friend request from you on Discord or Steam so I think it's a bit unfair to pin the blame on me there. Even now, I don't have you blocked on Discord or Steam.

 

So yeah, I was confused on what instance you were referring to. I thought you were referring to 3-4 weeks ago whenever you got banned, and as I've said I didn't have you blocked on either Discord or Steam. Back in February? I did. It was wrong of me to do so and I'm sorry I did it."

 

To which i THEN replied, based on the fact that your original response was to say that you had never done it and that you only apologized after confronted with photographic evidence contradicting that:

 

"1. Sin, why did you only apologize for this when you were confronted with photographic evidence proving you were lying about it?"

 

If you need any more clarification, feel free to let me know, but I don't think there's anything else to this at all, actually

 

[ѕιи]

Just now, HarryG said:

I am referring to this post made by me 

 

"This thread has ranged from non answers (seeing a lot of “I can’t really answer that to some of the tough questions) to lies to save face (sin, do you want me to post the DMs I have with teeny about how you had me blocked after muting me and how she had to get you to unblock me despite being apparently overburdened?) to people asking if they can also be mod. Like I said, when people are promoted without anybody to hold them accountable I guess they can say whatever they  want and ban whoever they please. With that in mind coupled with how many legitimately good suggestions and valid criticisms have been ignored thus far in this thread, I’m not optimistic. 

 

 

EDIT: Here's confirmation of that by the way from @Teeny Tiny Cat . Kind of unprofessional for you to lie about that in the public thread when I had screenshots, but you're already admin sin, so like I said, who is there to stop you from abusing said power now? https://gyazo.com/250cef3d58049401e2b4e038eba2dc59"

 

 

To which YOU responded:

 

"I'm confused because the situations you're bringing up happened at different times. Back in February (which I honestly thought happened earlier than then, so that's my fault), I did have you blocked and whenever I muted you back then you were unable to contact me to ask me about it; I'm not denying that. Teeny told me to unblock you because it wouldn't make any sense for me to help with comm mod duties if users weren't able to contact me if they had issues with what happened. I agree that it was wrong, and I'm sorry that I did it. Since then, and even now, I haven't had you blocked on Discord.

 

Now, 3-4 weeks ago whenever you were banned from the discord? I never had you blocked. You were unable to DM me because we didn't share any servers together, and on top of that I never received a friend request from you on Discord or Steam so I think it's a bit unfair to pin the blame on me there. Even now, I don't have you blocked on Discord or Steam.

 

So yeah, I was confused on what instance you were referring to. I thought you were referring to 3-4 weeks ago whenever you got banned, and as I've said I didn't have you blocked on either Discord or Steam. Back in February? I did. It was wrong of me to do so and I'm sorry I did it."

 

To which i THEN replied, based on the fact that your original response was to say that you had never done it and that you only apologized after confronted with photographic evidence contradicting that:

 

"1. Sin, why did you only apologize for this when you were confronted with photographic evidence proving you were lying about it?"

 

If you need any more clarification, feel free to let me know, but I don't think there's anything else to this at all, actually

 

 

I didn't lie about anything; I got confused as to what you were referring to. I already said that in my original post.

 

5 hours ago, ѕιи said:

So yeah, I was confused on what instance you were referring to. I thought you were referring to 3-4 weeks ago whenever you got banned, and as I've said I didn't have you blocked on either Discord or Steam. Back in February? I did. It was wrong of me to do so and I'm sorry I did it.

 

I don't really know what else you want me to say about this.

[HarryG]

Just now, ѕιи said:

 

I didn't lie about anything; I got confused as to what you were referring to. I already said that in my original post.

 

 

I don't really know what else you want me to say about this.

So I guess the trend going forward is to take a screenshot of every conversation we have involving you or your actions, because otherwise you might get confused about it and forget you did it at all. Good to know, thanks for the in-depth and timely response.

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

45 minutes ago, Master Throne Crimson said:

Well, Teeny isn't doing any Admin duties atm so it kinda makes sense

 

Much as I wish this was true, it is not. Even on break I am not completely inactive.

[ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy]

1 hour ago, HarryG said:

2. For what reason does shuffle believe Sin can't be an admin and respond to every question in this thread if teeny is an admin and can do just that?

I more meant he can't do both simultaneously/immediately. He wouldn't be abandoning the thread by not responding to every question immediately if he's going and doing what he's supposed to do as Admin.

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

9 hours ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

 

Much as I wish this was true, it is not. Even on break I am not completely inactive.

Well, i suppose wording was off, perhaps more like "Teeny isn't doing many Admin duties". Point is, sin is now busier as an Admin.

[Farao Ramses II]

On 6/21/2020 at 5:26 AM, « SɱokEy » said:

The dev issue we have already discussed about and we are looking into what can be done. 

Please suggest ways on how we can improve and also give examples of outdated things, it could only be a dev fix but still if there is something staff can do to fix we will look into it

 

Well, it at least feels reassuring to know that staff is looking into the situation with the inactive developer and is intending on coming up with ways to solve this issue. I just hope you blokes inform us in a couple of weeks on the status of this implied brainstorm.

 

In regard to suggesting ways on improving the site and giving examples of outdated things: if you scroll through the #bug-reports-and-ideas channel on the Discord server, you will come across plenty of suggestions on how to improve the site for the better. You will also find plenty of bug reports there about small things that are apparently broken. Then there obviously is also the on-site bug tracker.

 

I don't think it is all that handy, or even up to me, to go on and find every suggestion made in #bug-reports-and-ideas (or here on the site) and list them here in this forum thread, where they might get lost in time eventually anyway. And as a side-note to that: it was originally fisk's request to post bug reports and such to the #bug-reports-and-ideas channel (which was named specifically for that purpose, originally having been named #site-suggestions).

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

Guys. You want complete honesty? I used to compile every single bug report in trello for devs. Every one. Everything posted in issue tracker, everything posted in discord. I used to rank them by order of importance to fix. I used to regularly make lists of feature requests, and again... rank them by order of importance. The developer never looked at it. I stopped doing it before I even went inactive, because why endlessly kill myself doing work that doesn't matter and nobody looks at? I fully understand your frustration but please try to understand that it's the very same frustration I have. I have kept my mouth largely shut to support the devs and owners, because that's what I'm here for right? To take all the shit from everybody about things I have no control over, to pour hours of time into trying to make it as easy as possible for them to fix shit and watching nothing get done. But I don't have the energy for any of it right now. There's bigger shit going on in my life, in the world. Maybe me joining you in expressing that frustration is what the owners/devs need to have a wake up call. I suspect not.

[Farao Ramses II]

1 hour ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

Guys. You want complete honesty? I used to compile every single bug report in trello for devs. Every one. Everything posted in issue tracker, everything posted in discord. I used to rank them by order of importance to fix. I used to regularly make lists of feature requests, and again... rank them by order of importance. The developer never looked at it. I stopped doing it before I even went inactive, because why endlessly kill myself doing work that doesn't matter and nobody looks at? I fully understand your frustration but please try to understand that it's the very same frustration I have. I have kept my mouth largely shut to support the devs and owners, because that's what I'm here for right? To take all the shit from everybody about things I have no control over, to pour hours of time into trying to make it as easy as possible for them to fix shit and watching nothing get done. But I don't have the energy for any of it right now. There's bigger shit going on in my life, in the world. Maybe me joining you in expressing that frustration is what the owners/devs need to have a wake up call. I suspect not.

Wow. Just... Wow.

 

Thank you for your dedication, Teeny. It must suck to tirelessly work for the good of this website and community and get pretty much nothing back from the owners (or developers).

 

Again: thank you for your time and effort.

[HarryG]

I don't think blaming the owners and developers for everything is a good direction for this thread to take especially when there are still numerous fixable issues that can be accomplished by the staff without the owners and developers even needing to get involved. 

 

It implies a sense of hopelessness and helplessness on the part of the staff when there are numerous decisions and avenues they could take to improve the running of the site even without the higher-ups. It's not ALL the owners and developers fault, so I think we're going back into a direction of apathy and "oh well, I guess it's just those mean old owners fault and we can't do anything" when a lot of change can be implemented even without addressing the problems that would have to be addressed by those people obviously out of reach.

 

Honestly, the developer(s) didn't even seem that incompetent from my experience; I think one of the biggest issues is how cluttered the bug tracker is. I had a bug report open about how pricing chemistry sets was broken for a year and a half, and one day I pinged fisk about it in the discord and it got fixed in 10 minutes. Obviously many of the bugs are not hard to fix when you look at it that way (of course, after a year and a half of being unassigned, the bug report was CLOSED the day it was fixed, so at least that was done in a timely manner by staff)

 

It almost seems like a way to direct everybodys' disappointment and complaints to somebody who will never read them so that the complaints go away.

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

Perhaps it seems that way if you ignore everything else I've said in here. 

[HarryG]

7 minutes ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

Perhaps it seems that way if you ignore everything else I've said in here. 

Well, it DOES actually seem that way when you take into account all of the suggestions that could be addressed by staff literally right now that have been ignored in lieu of saying everything is the developers and owners' fault which is apparently the new route staff  have taken in the thread. 

 

Like I said: "It almost seems like a way to direct everybodys' disappointment and complaints to somebody who will never read them so that the complaints go away."

 

Trying to bury responses with things like "Well that's because you didn't read what I said before" without elaborating on what on earth that might be or even attempting to address the actual post I made (ironic when your reply was about ignoring things people have said) is what I was talking about earlier in the thread when I referenced "non-answers". 

 

It kind of just seems like staff were engaged in this thread at first but once they realized just how much they were being criticized they got tired and decided most of it actually was someone else's fault (namely the owners and dev(s))

 

Maybe someone else (perhaps sin, i've heard a lot about him continuing to respond in this thread?) would like to address my comment with a different response, fingers crossed

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

I've addressed many things in here quite frankly, and I've spent a huge number of hours fixing and changing things on this site over the years. I'm explaining where I'm at and why things are the way they are at the moment. Nothing is one person's fault. Everyone has done things for the site and everyone has things they could do better. I'm not really interested in blame games, I'm simply telling you guys how I feel. If you're uninterested in that, that's okay. You can await replies from others.

[ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy]

23 minutes ago, HarryG said:

Well, it DOES actually seem that way when you take into account all of the suggestions that could be addressed by staff literally right now that have been ignored in lieu of saying everything is the developers and owners' fault which is apparently the new route staff  have taken in the thread.

 

19 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

For what we as pricing/report/community moderators can control, I think I can speak for all of us in saying that we're going to try our hardest to rectify the problem. Erik's launching another suggestion mini-event, sin's promotion (prior issues aside; I'm focusing solely on his ability to perform his site duties) should greatly aid in the handle of report backlog and ensuring staff inactivity doesn't become a problem again, and we will do more as time goes on to hopefully prevent these issues from being such a big issue in the future.

 

19 hours ago, ѕιи said:

3. I was busy for one day, and obviously that's not an accurate representation of my general availability. Even now I'm working on the report backlog.

The main issues brought up in this thread are 1) communication (has already been addressed), 2) moderator inactivity on forums (has already been addressed), 3) developer inactivity with site bugs and suggester incentives (has already been addressed), 4) report backlog (has already been addressed), 5) suggestion backlog (has already been addressed).

 

We've already covered solutions in this thread. For communication and moderator inactivity on forums, all of the staff have acknowledged that we need to be more active on forums, especially with open discussion threads about the site. Additionally, I already pointed out the instances in which moderators apologized for anything they've said or done that was perceived to be rude and/or distasteful. For developer inactivity, it's been mentioned several times by the staff (even you realize this since you're mentioning issues the other staff can handle) that those issues rest upon the developers and owners. Regarding the report backlog, sin's promotion is just one way to increase the speed and number of reports processed. To address both report and suggestion backlog, we've mentioned how we'll gladly accept applications for each position from qualified people. Even now, we've discussed with a few potential applicants about their experiences and any improvements they could make. Of course, there are other solutions that can address these problems, and we will continue to work on implementing those.

 

It would be inaccurate to say that we're ignoring these issues and pinning them all on the developers/owners when there have been multiple steps taken by the moderators/administrators to handle the suggestions posed here.

[Cave]

1 minute ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

I've addressed many things in here quite frankly, and I've spent a huge number of hours fixing and changing things on this site over the years. I'm explaining where I'm at and why things are the way they are at the moment. Nothing is one person's fault. Everyone has done things for the site and everyone has things they could do better. I'm not really interested in blame games, I'm simply telling you guys how I feel. If you're uninterested in that, that's okay. You can await replies from others.

I have to say, I honestly appreciate all the honesty you have put into this thread, I've read things that suprised me and saddened me.

 

I appreciate all the time you have put into this community and I wish it wont go away, I understand no one person is at fault, just a high number of persons who are trying their best but had to deal with other stuff.

Keep up the good work and discussion with us, we appreciate it, and that holds up for all the other staff members aswell.

 

[ѕιи]

By now, I don't really have much else to say. Like Shuffle said:

9 minutes ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

The main issues brought up in this thread are 1) communication (has already been addressed), 2) moderator inactivity on forums (has already been addressed), 3) developer inactivity with site bugs and suggester incentives (has already been addressed), 4) report backlog (has already been addressed), 5) suggestion backlog (has already been addressed).

 

We've addressed pretty much everything that has been discussed in this thread and have been taking/already taken steps to implement solutions to these issues. There's really not much else I can say by now that hasn't already been said by myself or another staff member.