The growing concern with the future of the site; the absence of the Site Dev and overall inactivity of Admins/Moderators.

[HarryG]

Good way to cap off the thread. If you all think everything has been addressed and fixed, let's see if the site still has these problems in a week from now. I'll be the one to post a "State of the Backpack Address" at that time as a lookback to this thread and the complaints within to see if it has all been fixed. 

[WannaBe]

1 hour ago, HarryG said:

Good way to cap off the thread. If you all think everything has been addressed and fixed, let's see if the site still has these problems in a week from now. I'll be the one to post a "State of the Backpack Address" at that time as a lookback to this thread and the complaints within to see if it has all been fixed. 

Nobody said everything has been fixed, only that has been addressed, you can't  expect a fix for everything after snapping your fingers. If you care that deeply about the site that you want to fix everything the same moment buy the site off geel and hire devs and your "clique" to promptly resolve everything.

[Sniper Noob]

I think at this point we owe the staff some time to put their promises into action without berating them all day. And given what Teeny said, it seems like some of the blame and responsibility goes higher up the ladder. Hopefully the owners/devs can join in on this thread with their own responses. But either way, hopefully Sin and the team can run with all the suggestions here and make a big step forward. If that happens I hope the critics will come back to this thread to acknowledge their efforts.

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

20 hours ago, Farao Ramses II said:

list them here in this forum thread, where they might get lost in time

Not as easily as in the Discord tho

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

15 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

The main issues brought up in this thread are 1) communication (has already been addressed), 2) moderator inactivity on forums (has already been addressed), 3) developer inactivity with site bugs and suggester incentives (has already been addressed), 4) report backlog (has already been addressed), 5) suggestion backlog (has already been addressed)

Exactly!

On 6/22/2020 at 3:17 AM, Master Throne Crimson said:

Meh, at the end of the day, its too early to judge. The acknowledgement from the mods has been a bigger majority than the few members not being fully transparent. I think the discussion is definitely at the stage to be, from now on, mostly giving ideas on what and how to improve the situation.

 

• Acknowledgement from the mods that have commented on this post and them trying to be more active is
• sin situation will resolve itself: either he proves himself or he doesn't and loses the promotion, thats
• It seems all hope is not lost with people's (like Procave) applications being declined for seemingly hypocritical reasons, the particular person i brought out may still have a chance! Thats a
• The strongest ideas suggested rn, price suggesting incentive (which would presumably get more new suggesters on board and possibly bring back some old, retired ones) and getting a new Dev on board (would fix tons of bugs and start off site development by adding in a couple of neat features, that have been requested) has been confirmed to be worked on (Only time will tell us how it goes. Best of luck to the staff team and im full on fingers crossed that you succeed!), thats
• I don't exactly know what the people and Mods think about adding a clearer way to show that bp.tf is looking to add on members to the staff; a "Apply here" (example by Woifi) or something, however we still need some more effective ideas of encouraging og community members to try and apply for some sort of mod position.

 

Now what we need is more ideas on how to improve the brought out issues; Plan B's, call them, aswell as whether or not there are more issues some people know of/have noticed that haven't been discussed at all or have been barely.

 

[Farao Ramses II]

3 hours ago, Master Throne Crimson said:

Not as easily as in the Discord tho

Well, I guess that is true.

 

Although I still am of the conviction it is not up to me to go organize the bug reports and suggestions on how to improve the site.

[HarryG]

9 hours ago, Master Throne Crimson said:

Not as easily as in the Discord tho

Well, when you ban everyone that frequently complains about staff choices for "disagreeing with mods" from your discord, tends to create a space primarily on the forums where this discourse occurs. It's called DISCORD for a reason

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

New update!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Link: https://backpack.tf/award-tickets

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/23/2020 at 2:17 PM, Master Throne Crimson said:

• Acknowledgement from the mods that have commented on this post and them trying to be more active is
• sin situation will resolve itself: either he proves himself or he doesn't and loses the promotion, thats
• It seems all hope is not lost with people's (like Procave) applications being declined for seemingly hypocritical reasons, the particular person i brought out may still have a chance! Thats a
• The strongest ideas suggested rn, price suggesting incentive (which would presumably get more new suggesters on board and possibly bring back some old, retired ones) and getting a new Dev on board (would fix tons of bugs and start off site development by adding in a couple of neat features, that have been requested) has been confirmed to be worked on (Only time will tell us how it goes. Best of luck to the staff team and im full on fingers crossed that you succeed!), thats
• I don't exactly know what the people and Mods think about adding a clearer way to show that bp.tf is looking to add on members to the staff; a "Apply here" (example by Woifi) or something, however we still need some more effective ideas of encouraging og community members to try and apply for some sort of mod position.

 

• Acknowledgement from the mods that have commented on this post and them trying to be more active is
• sin situation will resolve itself: either he proves himself or he doesn't and loses the promotion, thats
• It seems all hope is not lost with people's (like Procave) applications being declined for seemingly hypocritical reasons, the particular person i brought out may still have a chance! Thats a
• One of the strongest ideas suggested rn, price suggesting incentive (which would presumably get more new suggesters on board and possibly bring back some old, retired ones) has now been added in in the form of Award Tickets and it has been confirmed that the staff will look at adding more contributor-exclusive rewards in the future! 
• Getting a new Dev on board (would fix tons of bugs and start off site development by adding in a couple of neat features, that have been requested) has been confirmed to be worked on (Only time will tell us how it goes. Best of luck to the staff team and im full on fingers crossed that you succeed!), thats
• I don't exactly know what the people and Mods think about adding a clearer way to show that bp.tf is looking to add on members to the staff; a "Apply here" (example by Woifi) or something, however we still need some more effective ideas of encouraging og community members to try and apply for some sort of mod position.

Thats only the most noticeable step taken by the staff and im glad to see how positive the community is atm overall and with its response regarding this entire matter and am extremely grateful how the staff has handled everything so far, keep it up staff and lets get to suggesting everyone! o/

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

I just wanna note that Fisk had/has been working on suggester premium long before this thread, we have been hassling him a long time. Noting that because I want you all to know that we do value the contribution suggesters make and did not just add this because of complaints, we have thought you deserved it for a long time.

[HarryG]

3 hours ago, Master Throne Crimson said:

New update!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Link: https://backpack.tf/award-tickets

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

• Acknowledgement from the mods that have commented on this post and them trying to be more active is
• sin situation will resolve itself: either he proves himself or he doesn't and loses the promotion, thats
•  

Disagree

 

 

The mods that have commented on this post have changed their tune towards largely blaming the owners and devs for all of the problems present

 

 

Additionally, the sin situation has not "resolved itself", the steps that have been taken have had nothing to do with sin being admin; if I had suddenly became admin when this ticket idea was implemented does that mean I should receive credit? Still very skeptical

[Farao Ramses II]

39 minutes ago, HarryG said:

Disagree

 

 

The mods that have commented on this post have changed their tune towards largely blaming the owners and devs for all of the problems present

 

 

Additionally, the sin situation has not "resolved itself", the steps that have been taken have had nothing to do with sin being admin; if I had suddenly became admin when this ticket idea was implemented does that mean I should receive credit? Still very skeptical

 I think you are misreading Crimson's post (which in fact is him reposting something from earlier in this thread).

 

Crimson seems to be noting that the situation with SIN will resolve itself through him proving his capabilities as an admin. Furthermore noting he shall lose his promotion if things do not work out. Calling this 'good' through the little check mark.

 

In regard to the first point: I think most of the staff have fairly acknowledged the majority of the existing problems, including their inactivity which has enabled the giant backlog to manifest. The only one I have seen 'blaming' the owners and developers has been Teeny, but she did so in the context of their perceived shortcomings and inactivity, specifically the inactivity of the developer(s). Acknowledging that the developer is indeed rather inactive and stating she has been pressing geel for quite some time now to hire more of those much needed developers; unfortunately to no avail, as she has declared.

 

But correct me on that one if I am wrong.

[HarryG]

Just now, Farao Ramses II said:

 I think you are misreading Crimson's post (which in fact is a him reposting something from earlier in this thread).

 

Crimson seems to be noting that the situation with SIN will resolve itself through him proving his capabilities as an admin. Furthermore noting he shall lose his promotion if things do not work out. Calling this 'good' through the little check mark.

 

In regard to the first point: I think the most of the staff have fairly acknowledged most of the existing problems, including there inactivity which have enabled the giant backlog to manifest. The only one I have seen 'blaming' the owners and developers has been Teeny, but she did so in the context of their perceived shortcomings and inactivity, specifically the inactivity of the developer(s). Acknowledging that the developer is indeed rather inactive and stating she has been pressing geel for quite some time now to hire more of those much needed developers; unfortunately to no avail, as she has declared.

 

But correct me on that one if I am wrong.

I guess I did misread his post slightly but I don't think even if sin proves to be a poor admin he would be removed from his post it's become pretty apparent that staff don't get fired from backpack because we're just told they apologized and it's in the past so don't bring it up anymore or you're banned

 

 

I don't think it was even in the context of any perceived shortcomings or anything else it just turned into one-sentence replies blaming the people criticizing the problems with the site as opposed to accepting responsibility (sentences like "I am allowed to take a break, and I don't really care if you understand that or not" which had little to do with the original post being replied to and more to do with shifting the burden of blame on the person criticizing the site through a strawman (nobody stated that staff aren't allowed to take a break) but I could also be wrong 

 

For these reasons still pessimistic about the site's future, especially based on the problematic mod application connor posted and the replies which seem to imply a positive outcome for him

[WannaBe]

3 hours ago, HarryG said:

I guess I did misread his post slightly but I don't think even if sin proves to be a poor admin he would be removed from his post it's become pretty apparent that staff don't get fired from backpack because we're just told they apologized and it's in the past so don't bring it up anymore or you're banned

It's become pretty apparent you're just ranting for the sake of it and not being used to being wrong.
I am a former staff member(comm mod) that got fired for not being active. In short, college+stress+lack of motivation for anything related to tf2 and I never opened discord, forums or messaged anyone about my absence. One day I returned and saw I was demoted
So ye,  being a part of staff isn't a lifetime membership of a countryside club that doesn't give a fuck about the working class.

[HarryG]

27 minutes ago, WannaBe said:

It's become pretty apparent you're just ranting for the sake of it and not being used to being wrong.
I am a former staff member(comm mod) that got fired for not being active. In short, college+stress+lack of motivation for anything related to tf2 and I never opened discord, forums or messaged anyone about my absence. One day I returned and saw I was demoted
So ye,  being a part of staff isn't a lifetime membership of a countryside club that doesn't give a fuck about the working class.

Ok, you're literally the only one so that doesn't really leave a good indicator; that might speak more to you then it does to the site, although I welcome you to change my mind if you think I'm ranting for the sake of it and not being [sic] used to being wrong. Puddington Bear is still accepting incorrect key suggestions even after multiple suggestion controversies to a greater degree then any other staff member (the strange heavy lifter, towering pillar of summer shades and paint buy order suggestions come to mind to name a few) and communicates literally nothing to the community. puddingkip was a forum mod that now hangs out in the discord but has the ability to ban people. 

 

So yes, you have changed my position slightly in that I concede it is possible to be fired from backpack if you completely disappear from backpack after getting mod and not contributing anything as part of said new position. Otherwise, in terms of an overall trend, no, I haven't changed my mind that once you're actually part of the clique you're not going anywhere once you actually want to.

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

20 hours ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

I just wanna note that Fisk had/has been working on suggester premium long before this thread, we have been hassling him a long time. Noting that because I want you all to know that we do value the contribution suggesters make and did not just add this because of complaints, we have thought you deserved it for a long time.

Definitely, ive seen it being talked about and agreed on long before

 

 

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

18 hours ago, Farao Ramses II said:

In regard to the first point: I think most of the staff have fairly acknowledged the majority of the existing problems, including their inactivity which has enabled the giant backlog to manifest. The only one I have seen 'blaming' the owners and developers has been Teeny, but she did so in the context of their perceived shortcomings and inactivity, specifically the inactivity of the developer(s). Acknowledging that the developer is indeed rather inactive and stating she has been pressing geel for quite some time now to hire more of those much needed developers; unfortunately to no avail, as she has declared.

Yeah, Harry needs to be less negative, we need more positivity if we want to make a change. We need to focus on how staff acts from here on forth, not the inactivity that was in the past that has long been acknowledged.

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

18 hours ago, HarryG said:

For these reasons still pessimistic about the site's future

I mean yeah... If youre right the site will die off, end of a great saga Nothing else to say, innit?

 

  

14 hours ago, HarryG said:

Puddington Bear is still accepting incorrect key suggestions even after multiple suggestion controversies to a greater degree then any other staff member (the strange heavy lifter, towering pillar of summer shades and paint buy order suggestions come to mind to name a few) and communicates literally nothing to the community. puddingkip was a forum mod that now hangs out in the discord but has the ability to ban people.

If you want to make some change happen in this specific case, i guess you can discuss this more specifically, but i do not see a reason to continue the pessimistic attitude against the entirety of the staff and the future of the site. There's just no point, it only brings negativity to this thread.

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

FTR, numerous staff have been fired, we just don't make a big drama about it and generally either let them "retire" or quietly remove them.

[HarryG]

7 hours ago, Master Throne Crimson said:

I mean yeah... If youre right the site will die off, end of a great saga Nothing else to say, innit?

 

  

If you want to make some change happen in this specific case, i guess you can discuss this more specifically, but i do not see a reason to continue the pessimistic attitude against the entirety of the staff and the future of the site. There's just no point, it only brings negativity to this thread.

 

8 hours ago, Master Throne Crimson said:

Yeah, Harry needs to be less negative, we need more positivity if we want to make a change. We need to focus on how staff acts from here on forth, not the inactivity that was in the past that has long been acknowledged.

I'm perfectly within my rights to be pessimistic based on the outcome I saw in this thread; trying to force everyone to have a positive attitude the way I see it is basically the same as Smokey saying he's going to close the thread if people don't stop complaining about sin becoming admin, lol. "Everybody agree the site is saved or we don't want you here" = bad outset for actually continuing to fix problems with the site 

6 hours ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

FTR, numerous staff have been fired, we just don't make a big drama about it and generally either let them "retire" or quietly remove them.

Wouldn't believe this without proof but then again I don't think the proof exists, lol. I don't believe any of the "retired mods" were fired given how buddy-buddy they still are with staff 

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

One of them literally confirmed it in here but okay, whatever feeds your conspiracy theory.

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

50 minutes ago, HarryG said:

based on the outcome I saw in this thread

The outcome is not in this thread, its outside of it.

 

50 minutes ago, HarryG said:

trying to force everyone to have a positive attitude

Who used force

 

50 minutes ago, HarryG said:

"Everybody agree the site is saved or we don't want you here" = bad outset for actually continuing to fix problems with the site

My point is, in most of your responses, your point basically comes down to 1 thing: complete doubtfulness that said problems will actually be fixed/that the staff only complies while this thread is alive. However, we already got the point. Who agrees, who doesn't. Instead of continuously calling the staff out, you've yet to propose any ideas how to make the site better to them, if your idea(s) are good and the staff agrees with em, they can prove your pessimism wrong! Think about it  And like ive said before, the staff understands that youre very pessimistic, so all thats left to do now is to wait and see if your pessimism proves to be right or wrong. If its right, then fuck yes continue to call the staff out, in that case it is actually needed. But idk, especially with the Ticket feature they just added in, its clear they are trying atm, so yeah, atm its pointless to continue to call em out

[HarryG]

4 hours ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

One of them literally confirmed it in here but okay, whatever feeds your conspiracy theory.

"Ok, you're literally the only one so that doesn't really leave a good indicator; that might speak more to you then it does to the site, although I welcome you to change my mind if you think I'm ranting for the sake of it and not being [sic] used to being wrong. Puddington Bear is still accepting incorrect key suggestions even after multiple suggestion controversies to a greater degree then any other staff member (the strange heavy lifter, towering pillar of summer shades and paint buy order suggestions come to mind to name a few) and communicates literally nothing to the community. puddingkip was a forum mod that now hangs out in the discord but has the ability to ban people. 

 

So yes, you have changed my position slightly in that I concede it is possible to be fired from backpack if you completely disappear from backpack after getting mod and not contributing anything as part of said new position. Otherwise, in terms of an overall trend, no, I haven't changed my mind that once you're actually part of the clique you're not going anywhere once you actually want to."

 

 

 

 

Maybe if you didn't selectively read my posts you would know that it isn't a conspiracy theory, although that was a good way to completely misinterpret what I'm saying (if you did actually read the post which I doubt, I could only assume said misinterpretation was done on purpose)

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

Kk mah bad

[Geel]

Hey guys,

 

I need to be honest with you all here. This is all mainly my fault. I haven't handled backpack.tf appropriately or the way it and the community deserves. I've let down Teeny and the other admins / mods, through my unavailability and lack of involvement.

 

The raw truth is, we purchased backpack.tf when the previous owner informed me he was selling it because I didn't want it to be purchased by some ad company like ZAM and flooded with ads and eventually killed (like what ZAM did to TF2Outpost). Backpack was a vital part of the tf2 community and I felt I had to protect it. However, even at the time I knew deep down that it was adding more pressure onto my already stacked plate. That it was somewhat irresponsible to be acquiring the site when I knew I probably wouldn't be able to give it the attention it deserves. For this I truly apologize.

 

I've stacked far too much on my plate and backpack is an unfortunate victim of that. I want to do right by the site, but I'm not sure exactly what that entails. Bringing cares on is certainly a possibility; one I shamefully ignored because I couldn't deal with the stress of handling such a thing.

 

I'd like to apologize to Teeny and the rest of the mod team. When we purchased backpack, we promised that we'd basically let them run the community portion of the site however they wanted, as I didn't feel right making dictations on that front. However, I also told them that I'd be more available and responsive than the previous owner; for a while, I think this was true. However, over time things worsened to a similar state as with the previous owner (I imagine). I have only myself to blame for this. The mod team deserves better and I'm sorry they haven't gotten it.

 

For the record, Teeny shouldn't be blamed for any of this. She's done, and tried to do, so much for you guys. But there's only so much she can do under these circumstances.  Please don't direct this towards her.

[HarryG]

As previously mentioned in this thread there are plenty of problems with the site that have nothing to do with the owners or developers and while I hold no ill will towards Geel I respectfully disagree in that the admins (and staff at large in some cases, though it's interesting you only mention Teeny (or perhaps not interesting as the thread has essentially turned into everybody making sure we all know that none of this is Teeny's fault)) can be blamed for many of the issues that the site currently faces including a continued lack of community engagement (you'd think someone twice my age and who holds an admin position would be providing more mature responses than this https://gyazo.com/874e74a2a2eadae6bfb6c7e3209dd465 , for example). Although if someone has decided to effectively abandon the community it would make a little more sense why they wouldn't bother reading or responding to posts to be fair to Teeny