Toosdey Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 You can't just get a girl pregnant unless she agrees to have sex. Have you ever heard of rape? Does a woman agree to that? No. Can she get pregnant? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Have you ever heard of rape? Does a woman agree to that? No. Can she get pregnant? Yes. then its not consensual. try reading next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♠Derpeh♤ Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Imo i would prefer the mother having the option to abort than for the kid to be brought up by clearly unprepared parents. Im not referring to those who are married but arnt sure they are ready to have kids, im referring to idiotic teens who think unprotected sex and one night stands are the way to live and accidentally get pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thats not at all what i'm saying. All i'm saying is that you can't get a girl pregnant without her consent. And yes, the responsibility shouldn't be held solely on the mother. The father should be required to pay for and/or help take care of the baby until he/she reaches adulthood (18). If we take into account evolution then we know that a large amount of human nature revolves around reproduction. Just because we live in a situation where living is expensive and complex this does not mean anything to the incredibly power function of reproduction. People engaging in sex routinely are swept into that moment by these forces which are both external and internal. We are not designed to fight our own instinct very well. This goes for wealthy people, poor people and married couples who were not planning on having another child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 If we take into account evolution then we know that a large amount of human nature revolves around reproduction. Just because we live in a situation where living is expensive and complex this does not mean anything to the incredibly power function of reproduction. People engaging in sex routinely are swept into that moment by these forces which are both external and internal. We are not designed to fight our own instinct very well. This goes for wealthy people, poor people and married couples who were not planning on having another child. Yes, thats called an urge. Last time I checked you don't have to follow them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Rawer Beryl Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Ugh. I feel like I'm going to regret posting here. Let me address a few common themes here: "It's the mother's choice to abort her baby or not. Her body, her choice." Y'know, there were a lot of choices before abortion. Use contraceptives... Don't have sex at all... Once you're pregnant, a baby has been created. I'm sorry, but a baby has been created. If you get an abortion, you're killing a human being. Which leads me to my next one... "If the child hasn't been born yet, it's just a clump of cells, especially early on. You can't murder something that isn't alive." Once a fetus is created, it will, at 9 months pregnant, be born, and considered a human being. Why is it that before 9 months, the baby isn't considered alive? At 5 weeks, the heart starts beating. At 8 weeks, he can feel pain*. At 19 weeks, the baby looks like this**. It is illegal and considered wrong to kill a baby once outside of the uterus, but apparently completely fine to kill while still inside the uterus. Heck, even if the vital functions of the baby didn't start until after birth, my opinion would still stand. Because if you get an abortion, a baby is not born that would have been born. That is a fact. * http://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/23/expert-tells-congress-unborn-babies-can-feel-pain-starting-at-8-weeks/ ** http://worldobserveronline.com/2014/01/16/meet-walter-joshua-fretz-human/ "If the kid is going to be born into a bad environment, or if he'll have a disorder of some type, wouldn't it be better to spare him of that?" Ask anyone with a disorder or any foster kid this question: "Man, the situation you're in sucks. Wouldn't you rather have been killed before birth?" Something tells me they would say no. "I'm pro-life... except in cases of rape." Now, some of you here are actually pro life, but aren't in cases of rape. Let's talk about that for a moment. I'm pro-life even in cases of rape. Why is that? Well, as I mentioned earlier, once a woman is pregnant, life has been created. Even if the circumstances were rough, life was created, and the fetus will eventually grow into an adult human thankful he didn't die because of the circumstances of his conception. Here's one example: http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/index.html Rebecca Kiessling. She was going to be aborted, but fortunately, the law in Michigan did not allow abortion. She is now an international pro-life speaker. Also an attorney. Also, conveniently, she also has examples of other people conceived in rape on her website. http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/more-conceived-in-rape-stories.html http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/famous-people-conceieved-in-rape.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 "I'm pro-life... except in cases of rape." Now, some of you here are actually pro life, but aren't in cases of rape. Let's talk about that for a moment. I'm pro-life even in cases of rape. Why is that? Well, as I mentioned earlier, once a woman is pregnant, life has been created. Even if the circumstances were rough, life was created, and the fetus will eventually grow into an adult human thankful he didn't die because of the circumstances of his conception. Well, if you've been raped then being pregnant could easily lead to suicidal thoughts as rape is a very traumatizing experience and being forced to walk around with proof of that and being publicly shamed by it (yes, being raped is often viewed as shameful :/ ) just adds to the fact. So yea, I'm still gonna go with my pro-life except in cases of rape/endangerment to the mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. TrollDemo Ph.D Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Here's a question for you: Should a man's opinion on abortion even count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klappar Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Idk why people on this forum making threads about if some things such as gay marriage, prostitution and abortion should be legal. most people on this forum are atheists and few of them are so radical, so ofcourse everyone would say that its legal, since on atheism there is no rules. and the theists would just discuss with the atheists without any results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Large paragraph. Lazy to read. In short: I think abortion shouldnt be legal as it is just like killing a person. The only difference is this person is in another dood's vagina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ᴰᵉᶜᵏ Henry Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Wow, reading American people's view on abortion. This thread is like warping back to the 1800s. WTF guys. Because unlike you, we have the freedom to have common sense. Also, after looking at the text-picture of a naked women in your video game profile, I will repeat myself and say that I have a hard time taking anything you say about morals seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Map Painter Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 , since on atheism there is no rules. Right, because theists don't propose laws on gay marriage, for example. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10730806/David-Cameron-welcomes-first-gay-marriages.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10777270/David-Cameron-fuelling-sectarian-division-by-bringing-God-into-politics.html Anyway, Ireland is a perfect example of a pro-life cock up - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22204377 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistolvania Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Because unlike you, we have the freedom to have common sense. Also, after looking at the text-picture of a naked women in your video game profile, I will repeat myself and say that I have a hard time taking anything you say about morals seriously. Please just do elaborate everything. Unless you're being satirical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Rawer Beryl Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Well, if you've been raped then being pregnant could easily lead to suicidal thoughts as rape is a very traumatizing experience and being forced to walk around with proof of that and being publicly shamed by it (yes, being raped is often viewed as shameful :/ ) just adds to the fact. So yea, I'm still gonna go with my pro-life except in cases of rape/endangerment to the mother. [sarcasm]Yeah, you're right. Since the mother is so traumatized and ashamed, she should be allowed to kill the baby that resulted. I mean, what kind of society would we live in if mothers weren't allowed to murder their own kids if they were ashamed of the circumstances of conception?[/sarcasm] Besides, isn't getting an abortion just another traumatizing experience on top of it? Despite some "Pro-choice" arguments, you are ending a life when you do that, and she'll have to live with that for the rest of her life, instead of just waiting out the 9 months. She might think things like "I wonder what kind of person he/she might have been? Would it have been a boy or a girl? Would he/she have been thankful that I didn't abort him/her?" "Have you ever considered how really insulting it is to say to someone, 'I think your mother should have been able to abort you.'? It's like saying, 'If I had my way, you'd be dead right now.' And that is the reality with which I live every time someone says they are pro-choice or pro-life 'except in cases of rape' because I absolutely would have been aborted if it had been legal in Michigan when I was an unborn child, and I can tell you that it hurts. But I know that most people don't put a face to this issue -- for them abortion is just a concept -- with a quick cliche, they sweep it under the rug and forget about it." -Rebecca Kiessling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenging Flame Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Through scientific testing, there is a point at which it can be said that life begins in the womb. This occurs somewhere near the end of the first trimester I believe. In my opinion, abortion anytime before this point should be legal. Anything after unless in concern for the mother's health should be illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Yes, thats called an urge. Last time I checked you don't have to follow them. My point is to say that by nature not all of humanity would be rational and many would lack the ability to overcome the forces that drive us to pair bond and reproduce but many of you here just love to place responsibility on the woman for every part of this question. That's very unfair to them. If you want a pro life society you will have to be more supportive of them and have mandate birth control up to some certain age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 My point is to say that by nature not all of humanity would be rational and many would lack the ability to overcome the forces that drive us to pair bond and reproduce but many of you here just love to place responsibility on the woman for every part of this question. That's very unfair to them. If you want a pro life society you will have to be more supportive of them and have mandate birth control up to some certain age. So there shouldn't be personal responsibility? People shouldn't be required to take responsibility for their own actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
There Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Please just do elaborate everything. Unless you're being satirical. Wow, reading American people's view on abortion. This thread is like warping back to the 1800s. WTF guys. Wow, another European elitist who is unable to argue, so instead just calls us "primitive" or whatever. And then you say we're the ones who fail to elaborate, hahaha, gg m8 F Charlie and Awesome-- because the child is being aborted from the woman, and not the man, we are talking about it as if it is the woman's responsibility. None of us are arguing that the man involved doesn't have an obligation to the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 F Charlie and Awesome-- because the child is being aborted from the woman, and not the man, we are talking about it as if it is the woman's responsibility. None of us are arguing that the man involved doesn't have an obligation to the child. Well, since I don't think theres any reason for an abortion to occur (excluding cases of rape/endangerment to the mother) the father is kind of irrelevant. If, on the other-hand, I was arguing for pro-choice, then the mother and father would both have to come to an agreement (and if its rape then just the mother). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpiro Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Idk why people on this forum making threads about if some things such as gay marriage, prostitution and abortion should be legal. most people on this forum are atheists and few of them are so radical, so ofcourse everyone would say that its legal, since on atheism there is no rules. and the theists would just discuss with the atheists without any results. The ignorance...It hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 my issue with the abortion debate is that there is nothing to debate. The two sides have two fundamentally different beliefs that prevent any compromise. One side believes that life begins with conception. Under this belief, ANY abortion, be it very early, very late, or the result of rape, is murder of another human life. The other side believes that life does not begin at conception. They believe that performing an abortion on a tiny conglomerate of cells does not constitute murder. The point at which they believe life does begin varies from person to person. Because of these differing beliefs, and the fact that there is no way to determine when life begins, the two sides will never come to agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
There Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The ignorance... It hurts Klappar is so right here, though, he's not being ignorant. We have had SO MANY THREADS that are "guys why isn't gay marriage legal wtf is this" and a bunch of people respond "well its those fundie christians" and this keeps playing out, again and again! We don't have any honest conversation on it, we pretty much always agree. Even if Klappar is wrong on this, though, that doesn't make him ignorant......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjon123 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Regarding the argument of "when life starts": Look at it this way, a full grown bean plant is alive, but a dry ungerminated bean is not. When you were in first grade and your science teacher gave you a bean to sprout in paper towels and water and the very first tiny root popped out, did your science teacher tell you: "Now kids, this tiny bean plant is not alive, for you see, it is just a collection of cells that will one day become a living bean plant. It has not produced its own chloryphyl yet for it is dependent on the nourishment that the parent plant has given it. Look at it yourself, it does not even look like a bean plant, it is just a tiny, soft white string hanging out of a kidney shaped seed!" Of course not, you looked at the tiny sprout and were amazed that a new living plant was growing out of what was once a dry lump. The "seed" stage of a plant can be looked at as sort of a "dormancy", something that humans do not have. Human growth goes straight from conception to growth, while plants consist as seeds for a time. If you are of the opinion that the life of a human being does not start at conception then I would expect you to believe that a fledgling bean sprout is "not a living bean plant" either until some later, arbitrarily designated time in the bean's life existence. EDIT: Regarding the argument of "quality of life of the child": If you do not believe that life starts at conception then read above. If you will agree that life starts at conception but believe that abortion is necessary to avoid bringing an unloved and unwanted child into the world, then you should be fine if a parent loses their jobs, home, etc. and suddenly loses the interest and ability to raise the child and decide to have their 6 month old baby "aborted" because it now unwanted. Those parents who cook/freeze/throw out/suffocate/abandon their unloved and unwanted babies, you should be alright with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimes Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Through scientific testing, there is a point at which it can be said that life begins in the womb. This occurs somewhere near the end of the first trimester I believe. In my opinion, abortion anytime before this point should be legal. Anything after unless in concern for the mother's health should be illegal This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Python. Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 i'm pro-choice until the reason becomes that the mother isn't ready for the responsibilities of a child because she couldn't take 3 seconds out of her day to stop being a dumb cunt and make her lover wear a condom Condoms can break, and unless they want a child, they will most likely wear a condom or put the woman on 'the pill' Look at it this way, a full grown bean plant is alive, but a dry ungerminated bean is not. When you were in first grade and your science teacher gave you a bean to sprout in paper towels and water and the very first tiny root popped out, did your science teacher tell you: "Now kids, this tiny bean plant is not alive, for you see, it is just a collection of cells that will one day become a living bean plant. It has not produced its own chloryphyl yet for it is dependent on the nourishment that the parent plant has given it. Look at it yourself, it does not even look like a bean plant, it is just a tiny, soft white string hanging out of a kidney shaped seed!" Of course not, you looked at the tiny sprout and were amazed that a new living plant was growing out of what was once a dry lump. TIL baby's are bean sprouts and women are "dry lumps". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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