Banned, which means good bye

[TheScotsman]

He knows what the policies are. He still did the trade, and mentioned multiple times in the chat (and here) he doesn't check people as he should, hence he is ignoring the rules/policies:

 

 

He lied to me on the very first question I made

 

 

 

 

 

He demonstrated clearly disregard for the rules and SR marks. It's not about being a one time thing.

 

Who cares if he added, traded or whatever with someone marked, they obviously don't check everyone when doing a trade ESPECIALLY if the trade is legit. They told you that from the very beginning. Looks like all that power has gotten to your little pecker. This is why this website will forever be shite, on top of the price fixing you get admins trying to tell you how to trade. Go fuck yourself. What you going to do ban me? 

 

ooooo so scared. NOTHING you can do will ever effect me trading.

[Triforce of Charmanders]

Who cares if he added, traded or whatever with someone marked, they obviously don't check everyone when doing a trade ESPECIALLY if the trade is legit. They told you that from the very beginning. Looks like all that power has gotten to your little pecker. This is why this website will forever be shite, on top of the price fixing you get admins trying to tell you how to trade. Go fuck yourself. What you going to do ban me? 

 

ooooo so scared. NOTHING you can do will ever effect me trading.

 

1. rude

2. He's an admin on Outpost, not Backpack.tf

[Kittens with Mittens]

This is a little ridiculous. I feel for you. You have  nice bp and certainly enjoy trading. Good luck on cashing out/ refuting the ban.

[fisk]

Who cares if he added, traded or whatever with someone marked, they obviously don't check everyone when doing a trade ESPECIALLY if the trade is legit. They told you that from the very beginning. Looks like all that power has gotten to your little pecker. This is why this website will forever be shite, on top of the price fixing you get admins trying to tell you how to trade. Go fuck yourself. What you going to do ban me? 

 

ooooo so scared. NOTHING you can do will ever effect me trading.

 

back in my day people read before posting inane things on the internet

 

----

 

you do not need OP unless you want to go into the hellhole that is unusual trading, there's bots and other alternatives for everything these days

 

hell, bp.tf has classifieds, use those, and SOP is fine for standalone real-world transactions

[Alex From Security]

back in my day people read before posting inane things on the internet

Jesus.

Was the world black and white back then?

[A Cyan Stone in Mustard]

And you are welcome to report them to us.

 

People that I know that traded with phishers did so unknowingly, is that still bannable?

[Combat_Medic]

Yes, trading with marked scammers should get you a ban no matter how big or small the worth. I'm don't really understand your thought process, are you okay with having scammers? If ppl are regularly trading with scammers, it doesn't punish them.

Could you then please enlighten me why most of the trading community is not banned? I am very sure majority of us have traded with scammers before, be it a crate, a hat or a Max Head, if your point is, trading with marked scammers should get you a ban no matter how big or small the worth.

[3.50]

Yikes. Just yikes. I wouldn't want to be on either side of a permaban where the giver of said ban said things such as "Easy to assume" and "I'm bringing other people because it's circumstancial evidence." (discussion in first post)

But ehh, not really my business, and I don't know 100% of both sides of the story, so I won't say much beyond the fact that I'm glad I'm not involved.

Stay in school and check your unusual trading partners, kids...

[Scott Bakula]

Was the world black and white back then?

 

 

Only if you had the fancy monitors. For everyone else, the world was green and differently-shaded green.

[Zefaxet]

Why would you ban someone for trading with a scammer?

Scammers are people who did a bad.

Rapists are people who did a bad.

You don't get arrested for having sex with a rapist.

 

"Well, because he is encouraging trading with scammers."

No he's not, I'm sorry. Hes on a mission to find a "legit deal." To be encouraging it would be to actually send a message in some form to other people that "oh no, you should totally trade scammers."

 

Also he didn't lie.

I'm going with my gut and guessing he was telling the truth when he says he "trades with ~50 people a day."

This was the lie mentioned:

 

The fact that he says he doesn't trade with Marked Scammers:

You straight up ask him if he does. Well, hes gonna say no. Who in their right mind intentionally trades with a scammer. It wasn't a lie, it was a misinterpretation of the question, which lies in the fault of BSOD.

You can't blame someone for giving false answers when the question was false.

 

What happened?

BSOD asked the question in such a way that would make someone feel like the persecution was of regular fault.

No, he did it once.

"Hey, doing it once doesn't excuse him, he still broke the rules."

By the logic of the rule and note of regular fault, you know who else broke the rules?

Just about every single person on TF2OP.

I can guarantee you, every single trader has made a trade with a scammer, even BSOD and the rest of the outpost administration.

This kind of stuff has stats; maybe you should ban yourselves.

 

Also, they are a scammer because he set fake C/Os?

• How can you prove that they are fake, did you even ask the guy for chats or references?
• You're basically giving the rapist a sex offender charge, even thought the rape was actually the rapist accidentally touching a fully clothed breast with his elbow, claiming he was aiming for the arm.

What has to be learned from this who post?

1. Everybody is an idiot
2. People in power tend to be ignorant
3. TF2 economy is corrupt and insecure.

Good luck Christley.

[gimmechocolate]

Well, there are three parts to this ban:

1. lying

You shouldn't get mad at someone just because they say "No" rather than "Not that I know of" after just being informally accused of breaking a rule by an admin of (what I assume to be) their favorite trading site, most people, me included, would have made the same mistake under that amount of stress. It's only lying if  they intentionally say something that isn't true.

2. Trying to justify

He was saying that he interprets "scammer" as someone who steals tf2 items, not that he thinks its OK to trade with scammers. SR scammer and scammer are nowhere close to synonymous.

3. The rule

The rule is not very clear, and nowhere does it say "SR scammer", it only says "scammer", if you don't want users to interpret the word scammer, then the rule needs to be made more clear, not to mention that the rule is worded like a suggestion, not an instant perma-banable offense. 

 

I would like to urge BSOD to consider that they might have misunderstood OP's intent, and to reword the rule to be more clear before basing any perma-bans off of it.

[Amen]

 

Could you then please enlighten me why most of the trading community is not banned? I am very sure majority of us have traded with scammers before, be it a crate, a hat or a Max Head, if your point is, trading with marked scammers should get you a ban no matter how big or small the worth.

 

That was my personal opinion that anyone trading with a scammer should be banned. That is the only way to get the community to shift their minds (very extreme yes I know) about trading with scammers. Like you said many ppl could care less if they traded with scammers but that encourages their behaviour. Giving ppl a "1st trade with scammer get out of jail card (that was mentioned in the thread)" is something that can get abused easily. Shifting the minds of the community will never happen so pretty my post was pointless, but I was just voicing my opinion.

 

And yes, I have never traded with a marked scammer. I'm sure many ppl have not either.

 

 

Why would you ban someone for trading with a scammer?

Scammers are people who did a bad.

Rapists are people who did a bad.

You don't get arrested for having sex with a rapist.

 

"Well, because he is encouraging trading with scammers."

No he's not, I'm sorry. Hes on a mission to find a "legit deal." To be encouraging it would be to actually send a message in some form to other people that "oh no, you should totally trade scammers."

 

Also he didn't lie.

I'm going with my gut and guessing he was telling the truth when he says he "trades with ~50 people a day."

This was the lie mentioned:

 

The fact that he says he doesn't trade with Marked Scammers:

You straight up ask him if he does. Well, hes gonna say no. Who in their right mind intentionally trades with a scammer. It wasn't a lie, it was a misinterpretation of the question, which lies in the fault of BSOD.

You can't blame someone for giving false answers when the question was false.

 

What happened?

BSOD asked the question in such a way that would make someone feel like the persecution was of regular fault.

No, he did it once.

"Hey, doing it once doesn't excuse him, he still broke the rules."

By the logic of the rule and note of regular fault, you know who else broke the rules?

Just about every single person on TF2OP.

I can guarantee you, every single trader has made a trade with a scammer, even BSOD and the rest of the outpost administration.

This kind of stuff has stats; maybe you should ban yourselves.

 

Also, they are a scammer because he set fake C/Os?

• How can you prove that they are fake, did you even ask the guy for chats or references?
  
• You're basically giving the rapist a sex offender charge, even thought the rape was actually the rapist accidentally touching a fully clothed breast with his elbow, claiming he was aiming for the arm.
  

What has to be learned from this who post?

1. Everybody is an idiot
   
2. People in power tend to be ignorant
   
3. TF2 economy is corrupt and insecure.
   

Good luck Christley.

"Also he didn't lie."

I'm going with my gut and guessing he was telling the truth when he says he "trades with ~50 people a day."

You can't say straight up say "He didn't lie," then say I'm guessing he told the truth. Faking C/O's is what steamrep deemed to be scamming. Remember that this is their site that we're all using. They have set rules in place. If you go to someone's house invited and you do some crap and get kicked out because you didn't follow their rules, is it really a mystery why you aren't allowed back?

[-= SimplyJpk =-]

Ouch, I double check trades over 5-6 keys of value. But yeah, hats/craft-hats i wouldn't even think about it. (Unless steam did the whole "be carefull, blah blah thing) Seems a bit harsh. I'm usually adding people all the time for donations for my server, hope that doesn't backfire on me some day lol

Cya :c, all the best in the real world!

[leevinen3]

Goodbye chrisley pls don't come, you are finally free! I looked up to you from the beginning of my journey, seeing the rises and seeing the falls. This one was just a slightly bigger fall. I hope the very best for the rest of your life!

 

And now into the flames of war

 

I really think that trading with scammers is not a big deal. You should know the prices of your items and if you don't, then use the f$#ing google. People who get scammed are just ignorant or too new to understand about economy of tf2, I know this sounds harsh but that's life. And if the scammer sells them forwars, then he is like the rest of us, buy for cheap, sell more expensive.

 

This only counts scammers, phisers are a totally different kind of scum which I'm not going to discuss about

 

Now I hope some mod would close this thread, last one time, best regards for chrisley

[Mr. Bucket]

Goodbye chrisley pls don't come, you are finally free! I looked up to you from the beginning of my journey, seeing the rises and seeing the falls. This one was just a slightly bigger fall. I hope the very best for the rest of your life!

 

And now into the flames of war

 

I really think that trading with scammers is not a big deal. You should know the prices of your items and if you don't, then use the f$#ing google. People who get scammed are just ignorant or too new to understand about economy of tf2, I know this sounds harsh but that's life. And if the scammer sells them forwars, then he is like the rest of us, buy for cheap, sell more expensive.

 

This only counts scammers, phisers are a totally different kind of scum which I'm not going to discuss about

 

Now I hope some mod would close this thread, last one time, best regards for chrisley

I think you're mixing up scammers and sharkers.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Goodbye chrisley pls don't come, you are finally free! I looked up to you from the beginning of my journey, seeing the rises and seeing the falls. This one was just a slightly bigger fall. I hope the very best for the rest of your life!

 

And now into the flames of war

 

I really think that trading with scammers is not a big deal. You should know the prices of your items and if you don't, then use the f$#ing google. People who get scammed are just ignorant or too new to understand about economy of tf2, I know this sounds harsh but that's life. And if the scammer sells them forwars, then he is like the rest of us, buy for cheap, sell more expensive.

 

This only counts scammers, phisers are a totally different kind of scum which I'm not going to discuss about

 

Now I hope some mod would close this thread, last one time, best regards for chrisley

thats sharking. Scamming is just as bad as phishing--you promise to give someone something and then never pay. 

[leevinen3]

Well that's what everyone has told me about scammers, lulz

 

Can someone tell shortly what scammers are then?

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Can someone tell shortly what scammers are then?

Someone who offers to pay you paypal for a hat and doesn't pay. Someone who agrees to trade a something for something of yours quick switches in something else. 

[RubyVesper]

No offense to BSoD or any others.

 

I find this to be the most ludicrous ban I've seen yet. The rule needs to be changed, there is no reason to check everything, and here's why:

 

A cashier is doing her job when another customer shows up. The cashier asks the customer "Could you show me your ID and driver's license so that I can check if you broke into any houses, stole any lollipops or lied to your mother?" Is that how it works? No! He just hands the cashier the money! Sure, to buy alcohol, you need to show your ID to prove your age. I don't think pixels are as harmful as vodka is to a 14-year old. Anyways, my point is: it is inconvenient to check everything, every time. I am not that active in trading because I have other stuff to do, but I have honestly not checked a single trader, ever, on SOP. Maybe once, on SR. I don't remember.

 

I even once traded with a person who talked to me after he traded me. He admitted to me that he had scammed 5-8 buds in the past, stopped scamming, paid everything back and got back into low-tier trading. Did I get banned for that? No! Why? Because it makes no sense! It was a low-tier item from a person whom I never knew was a scammer anyways. If a cashier checks out for someone who later turns out to have had three speeding tickets, does the cashier have to have his/her driver's license revoked?

 

I think the rule needs to be changed so that it only applies to expensive items (>1 bud). A first offense, as long as the item is not confirmed to have actually been scammed, would result in a temp ban, while a second offense or a confirmed scammed item would result in a perm ban.

[Christley </3 Peelz]

I think you should close this topic. No more will come of it but bickering.

I believe it was unjust, but the thread is turning into a huge argument.

Best of luck in appealing. (If not bazaar will welcome you with open arms)

i want to make it clear that i made this thread for 2 reasons.

 

1. clear my conscious regarding the ban in question. if i just said "hi, im leaving the trading community" and people find out im banned on op for the reason i am. people would assume im a big time trader with scammers. which is not what i wanted to go out on. nor do i feel its fair. if i was a nobody in this community i could. but ive been here so long people would start asking questions. i posted the chatlog so people could see why i was banned. not to shitpost on admins or such.

2. its open because its a good bye thread from me. im saying to you everyone good bye. i wish you all the luck you can have.

 

 

so the intension of this thread wasnt to hate on op. i warrant a change in that rule aswell. i was looking for subjective thoughts (if you touched that side), and objective thoughts about me leaving. maybe fetching some good byes from people on these forums.

and about me appeling this ban. i most likely will. but just to get my tag removed and not getting back. before this happened i had little trust in the tf2 trading community where so many people will go their way to hurt other people, i stuck around because i felt that i could make a change. a small change, but one none the least. i would give back items the trader didnt want to have even though we traded, i would give the rest of a deal if i missed a ref or a key and not just run off. i would help people with trading advices etc.

but ive lost all faith now with this. this is why im saying good bye

[▲▲▲]

banned ... and all you did is traded with a scammer? I thought tf2outpost was good...

[puddingkip]

It's really very simple.

 

If you think profit is more important that reputation and moral, go for it. Don't lose 1 minute. That makes you no different than phishers, they are also in for the profit.

 

And if you don't think trading with scammers is a problem, do it. Just don't complain if you get banned later. Use sites that don't care about scamming. Nobody is forced to accept our rules, but if you use the site it means you accept them. If you don't accept them, just leave.

What???

Comparing people wanting profit with phishers goes wrong on so many things. A trader wanting profit over a time consuming check can be greedy, or a bit ignorant. Phishers are doing illegal activity, stealing other people's items and harming others. Phishing is legally and morally wrong, not wanting to do a time consuming check is slightly dumb at most. They're not even on the same page

[Woifi The Viking]

I think the rule needs to be changed so that it only applies to expensive items (>1 bud). A first offense, as long as the item is not confirmed to have actually been scammed, would result in a temp ban, while a second offense or a confirmed scammed item would result in a perm ban.

He was not perm banned for trading with a scammer, it was the lying part. Also I'm pretty sure you don't get banned for trading a craft hat to a scammer, iirc the bill's was the borderline in steamrep policy.~

 

banned ... and all you did is traded with a scammer? I thought tf2outpost was good...

He was not perm banned for trading with a scammer, it was the lying part. 

[RubyVesper]

If he was banned for lying, then that was unjustified. He did not check, so he did not know he traded with a scammer. So if he says no, he is not lying.  If you get asked "have you traded with a scammer?", then you are likely to say, because of this thread "I don't know, I don't check everyone", but the average TF2'er will say "No", simply because they never WILLINGLY traded with a scammer.

 

Case and point.

[Roller]

Another guy banned for the same reason from the same Admin.

 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/269735