Banned, which means good bye

[∞Ramses]

This hat was stolen and you bought it, you're basically as bad as he is in this case. If everyone stops buying hats from scammers then they'll stop scamming, you buying a unusual from someone who's marked fully justifies your ban. end of story

 

Those hats were not stolen. Please take a closer look what this is about before posting. I agree with your opinion about people who DO buy stolen hats while they are aware it's scammed/hijacked.

[Amen]

Whenever something happens to me that I find very unjust, I want to vent my anger over this with my friends. Many people, including me, see these forums as a group of ~30 regulars that cirklejerk here with the occassional stranger. I would vent my anger/disappointment here aswell, partially due to the very loose attitude of the moderators. He was not attempting to rally the members for some sort of angry mob, he was just explaining what happened. Hell, he even said "I won't fight this ban". Oh and you're using a fallacy

 

Had he appealed first in private, and if that didn't end up being "fair," then made this thread I could agree that this wasn't made to crate a an angry mob. However, he obviously got angry himself after he was banned and went straight to making this thread. So it was pretty obvious that he made this as to create some kinda response to the admins from the BP.TF users.

 

Every one here is so biased or has some kinda personal hate towards the admins it's getting ridiculous. I don't even know any of you people (being unbiased) and it's pretty obvious what the point of this thread is.

 

He said he won't fight this ban to get you guys(users) to feel for him and get angry at the admins.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Had he appealed first in private, and if that didn't end up being "fair," then made this thread I could agree that this wasn't made to crate a an angry mob. However, he obviously got angry himself after he was banned and went straight to making this thread. So it was pretty obvious that he made this as to create some kinda response to the admins from the BP.TF users.

 

Every one here is so biased or has some kinda personal hate towards the admins it's getting ridiculous. I don't even know any of you people (being unbiased) and it's pretty obvious what the point of this thread is.

 

He said he won't fight this ban to get you guys(users) to feel for him and get angry at the admins.

I can't speak for everyone, but i have no personal hate towards BSoD. Any hate he gets he deserves. He's gone on to say that it takes a special someone to be able to tell when someone is lying and be able to handle situations like this in a calm professional manner. That steam chat with Christley was neither calm nor professional, it was started off with a loaded question and ended up with BSoD just calling him a liar for no reason. Not to mention almost every response from BSoD and/or Sneeza has been a cookie-cutter response with absolutely no real thought put into it. And then lets not forget the contradictory and hyprociy going on...First, mods take an impartial look towards an appeal and then the appeal is less likely to be accepted because of this. 

[Christley </3 Peelz]

Had he appealed first in private, and if that didn't end up being "fair," then made this thread I could agree that this wasn't made to crate a an angry mob. However, he obviously got angry himself after he was banned and went straight to making this thread. So it was pretty obvious that he made this as to create some kinda response to the admins from the BP.TF users.

 

Every one here is so biased or has some kinda personal hate towards the admins it's getting ridiculous. I don't even know any of you people (being unbiased) and it's pretty obvious what the point of this thread is.

 

He said he won't fight this ban to get you guys(users) to feel for him and get angry at the admins.

or you could've just read what i said why i created this thread

 

i want to make it clear that i made this thread for 2 reasons.

 

1. clear my conscious regarding the ban in question. if i just said "hi, im leaving the trading community" and people find out im banned on op for the reason i am. people would assume im a big time trader with scammers. which is not what i wanted to go out on. nor do i feel its fair. if i was a nobody in this community i could. but ive been here so long people would start asking questions. i posted the chatlog so people could see why i was banned. not to shitpost on admins or such.

2. its open because its a good bye thread from me. im saying to you everyone good bye. i wish you all the luck you can have.

 

 

so the intension of this thread wasnt to hate on op. i warrant a change in that rule aswell. i was looking for subjective thoughts (if you touched that side), and objective thoughts about me leaving. maybe fetching some good byes from people on these forums.

and about me appeling this ban. i most likely will. but just to get my tag removed and not getting back. before this happened i had little trust in the tf2 trading community where so many people will go their way to hurt other people, i stuck around because i felt that i could make a change. a small change, but one none the least. i would give back items the trader didnt want to have even though we traded, i would give the rest of a deal if i missed a ref or a key and not just run off. i would help people with trading advices etc.

but ive lost all faith now with this. this is why im saying good bye

[Amen]

I can't speak for everyone, but i have no personal hate towards BSoD. Any hate he gets he deserves. He's gone on to say that it takes a special someone to be able to tell when someone is lying and be able to handle situations like this in a calm professional manner. That steam chat with Christley was neither calm nor professional, it was started off with a loaded question and ended up with BSoD just calling him a liar for no reason. Not to mention almost every response from BSoD and/or Sneeza has been a cookie-cutter response with absolutely no real thought put into it. And then lets not forget the contradictory and hyprociy going on...First, mods take an impartial look towards an appeal and then the appeal is less likely to be accepted because of this. 

 

The first question he asked was fair coming from an admin, the right answer was "There's a chance I may have traded with a  marked scammer as I do not check everyone I trade with." Saying "no" means that he does check everyone he trades with and there is no way that he traded with a marked scammer. The question was not a loaded question.

 

If I had to guess, he said "no" based on an impulse response and probably because he was scared and had to answer quickly. This is technically a lie, so the admin banned him.

 

The conversation obviously went south from there.

 

The admins are handling this situation calmly and professionally as they should. They are giving you the reason why he was banned (lieing/trading with scammer), they also mentioned that he can appeal this when he wants to. The users here are doing the insulting and being unreasonable.

 

I understand he may be your friend and you're sticking up for him but the admins are doing a pretty damn good job at handling this. This thread is just to stir something up/make this a bigger deal than it should be. They should be talking privately, not on a public forum on bp.tf. And yes I know everyone has free speech but that isn't the point.

[Professional Map Painter]

I understand he may be your friend and you're sticking up for him but the admins are doing a pretty damn good job at handling this. This thread is just to stir something up/make this a bigger deal than it should be. They should be talking privately, not on a public forum on bp.tf. And yes I know everyone has free speech but that isn't the point.

https://steamrep.com/?id=76561198009590775

 

SR caution for trading with a marked scammer, not banned on outpost.

[Woifi The Viking]

Except anyone with a greater IQ than that of a shovel can tell if a user is "faking c/o's". If someone offers 5 buds on a Smoking Prancer's Pride, it's an obvious fake. Even if was reasonable you can either ask for proof, or attempt buy it for a reasonable price because you either a) want it or b ) want to resell it and if the fake offer is above market price, then I highly doubt resellers would be interested.  

 

And judging by this, the guy is clearly stupid and anyone who fell for his scam is just plain retarded. As SR no longer take phishing reports, I can assume that very soon it will no longer take fake c/o reports because anyone who falls for them is stupid/new. Sure, Zam Network Corp Outpost has rules to enforce, but please stop being so inconsistent, I'm pretty sure SR policy for trading with scammers (first time) if they were not aware of the user being a scammer was either a verbal warning or caution.

So he faked the c/os bad, should they only ban clever scammers now? And as wesley said, with new effects being all over the place a nice fake c/o could really push up your trade.

And again, he was not perm banned for trading with a scammer, how often do I have to repeat that?~

[Amen]

https://steamrep.com/?id=76561198009590775

 

SR caution for trading with a marked scammer, not banned on outpost.

 

It was mentioned that he was banned perm because he lied to the admin, not just because he traded with a marked scammer.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I understand he may be your friend and you're sticking up for him but the admins are doing a pretty damn good job at handling this. This thread is just to stir something up/make this a bigger deal than it should be. They should be talking privately, not on a public forum on bp.tf. And yes I know everyone has free speech but that isn't the point.

No, I'm not saying what I'm saying to stand up for Christley. I'm friends with Jjon as well but I still sided with BSoD/OP.

[Christley </3 Peelz]

If I had to guess, he said "no" based on an impulse response and probably because he was scared and had to answer quickly. This is technically a lie, so the admin banned him.

 

if i said yes. id be banned aswell. there's no good answer to this question. it had only one outcome. it was a loaded question and i couldnt answer for myself. since the question already had the answer before he asked it

[Amen]

if i said yes. id be banned aswell. there's no good answer to this question. it had only one outcome. it was a loaded question and i couldnt answer for myself. since the question already had the answer before he asked it

 

I'm assuming telling him the truth would have went better than saying "no," but that's just based on my speculation.

 

"There's a chance I may have traded with a  marked scammer as I do not check everyone I trade with." This probably the best thing you could have said. There were other options besides "yes" and "no"

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I'm assuming telling him the truth would have went better than saying "no," but that's just based on my speculation.

Do you trade with scammers implies that you knowingly trade with them. No is a perfectly valid and truthful response.

[d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

@thread, so much posts - tl;dr

 

tl;dr version - Christley has helped the community a lot from what I've seen. He's a good guy and doubt he'd trade with a scammer if he knew it.

 

RIP and GL (again) Christley <3

[Professional Map Painter]

So he faked the c/os bad, should they only ban clever scammers now? And as wesley said, with new effects being all over the place a nice fake c/o could really push up your trade.

And again, he was not perm banned for trading with a scammer, how often do I have to repeat that?~

Trading in stolen goods, sure. But scammers that dumb aren't going to be selling stolen goods because no one will fall for their idiotic scams. SR already makes life hard for scammers (but not phishers) and most won't trade with them anyway. As for new effects, the demand is nonexistent.

 

It was mentioned that he was banned perm because he lied to the admin, not just because he traded with a marked scammer.

 

Ok

 

Quite a lot of people will be doing that if outpost and its moderators continue with this kind of behavior.

 

And also, why did you lie about not discussing this topic anymore?

I think that deserves a perma ban.

 

 

 

Ban pls

 

Also, the question was "Do you trade with scammers?"

 

The ban reason is "Trading with a marked scammer".

[Vercetti]

It was mentioned that he was banned perm because he lied to the admin, not just because he traded with a marked scammer.

 

From what I read here in this topic is that everyone who trades with a marked scammer gets a ban. It was a statement by outpost admins. Doesn't matter if you lie or not, so that is irrelevant.

[Amen]

 

Do you trade with scammers implies that you knowingly trade with them. No is a perfectly valid and truthful response.

 

It was withholding information/answering without knowing for sure since he knew at the point that he didn't check everyone he traded with.

 

 

From what I read here in this topic is that everyone who trades with a marked scammer gets a ban. It was a statement by outpost admins. Doesn't matter if you lie or not, so that is irrelevant.

 

I think they do it based on value (doesn't really make sense to me but I think that's how it works). Small value items, they don't care, large value items they do care. He was perm banned because he traded unusuals with the scammer/lied to an admin. I believe the lieing part did have an effect. I think one of the bp.tf admins said this.

[Karam]

So wait, from what I understood, he got banned because he lied and traded with a scammer. 

 

BSoD says he doesn't accept any requests unless comment on profile bla bla bla, you see, some of us here actually have a life (do you even know what life is ?) , i wouldn't like to waste time checking if someone is marked scammer when from what i also understood that he didn't steal anything but was marked because of having fake C/O's ? 

 

Also helen said this is the internet and people lie on the internet, so i would assume that everything helen does are lies and that she does bad things and lie to people because it is the internet ? Don't say things about people, look at your own self before judging that everyone lies.

 

And no i'm not hating, and just 1 question for BSoD and/or helen, you haven't lied EVER nor trading with a scammer for profit ? I believe you did atleast one of them, but you got your second chance, why can't you give people a second chance especially if they have a good repetition in popular sites ? 

[Kevin the Chicken God]

it's a matter of luck, so many people trade with people who have minor sr marks, the chances of being caught is difficult to express

SR rules as well as outpost rules are too strict right now, if I sell my meatball sub to an escaped convict who's in jail for jaywalking, should I go to jail as well?

that said, Ive seen people go a little crazy with SR marks (removing good friends who have them so they dont "dirty their reputation" and stuff like this, so these strict rules are enforced to satisfy that small majority

Its kinda like the FCC or FDA, the fact that a small percentage of people give a damn about sexual content means that we all have to give a damn, it's unfair, but it's life

[puddingkip]

Had he appealed first in private, and if that didn't end up being "fair," then made this thread I could agree that this wasn't made to crate a an angry mob. However, he obviously got angry himself after he was banned and went straight to making this thread. So it was pretty obvious that he made this as to create some kinda response to the admins from the BP.TF users.

 

Every one here is so biased or has some kinda personal hate towards the admins it's getting ridiculous. I don't even know any of you people (being unbiased) and it's pretty obvious what the point of this thread is.

 

He said he won't fight this ban to get you guys(users) to feel for him and get angry at the admins.

Yeah seriously, this thread needs conspiracy theories... No bp.tf mod vouced their personal opinion on this thread, same as with jjon. They're professionals, and I highly doubt Christley was using reverse psychology to gain support. Go back to 9/11 or Kennedy threads

[Betasecret]

...

Every one here is so biased or has some kinda personal hate towards the admins it's getting ridiculous. I don't even know any of you people (being unbiased) and it's pretty obvious what the point of this thread is.

 

He said he won't fight this ban to get you guys(users) to feel for him and get angry at the admins.

--> You are saying everyone here is biased. Well, I can't talk for the rest, but I think I'm pretty unbiased myself. Especially since I don't even know christley. So I personally find it quite rude that you make a generalization like this.

[Spu~]

like beta said up there ^ I'm fairly certain I'm unbiased when I put in my 2 cents.

 

From what I see, Christley has helped out a lot of people in the community. He made one simple mistake that I'm sure most people have made before, and not check someone on SOP. Hell, I only check SOP during higher tier item trades, like unusuals, professionals, australiums, etc. I have seen a few users banned for trading with scammers, and I can understand where BSOD might be coming from. But what the real issue here is whether christley was lying or not. That seems to be the whole reason why christley's ban may have been biased. It doesn't look like a lie to me, only a slight miscommunication BSOD took as a lie. Christley only traded with a marked scammer once, being that hat. Should this misunderstanding give christley a perma-ban and withdraw the help he has given to the community? I don't think so. Yes, the punishment for lying to admins is severe, yes, the punishment for trading with marked scammers is severe; but a perm ban? 

 

I'm confident Christley should appeal to get unbanned/have the ban shortened.

[Amen]

--> You are saying everyone here is biased. Well, I can't talk for the rest, but I think I'm pretty unbiased myself. Especially since I don't even know christley. So I personally find it quite rude that you make a generalization like this.

 Really don't see how you could've taken any personally offense from that statement, it was directed to this thread in general, which if you read it, not many ppl are listening to both sides of the story.

 

This thread should be locked anyways, rather pointless and should be dealt with privately between the 2 parties.

[jorisk322]

It was withholding information/answering without knowing for sure since he knew at the point that he didn't check everyone he traded with.

 

 

 

I think they do it based on value (doesn't really make sense to me but I think that's how it works). Small value items, they don't care, large value items they do care. He was perm banned because he traded unusuals with the scammer/lied to an admin. I believe the lieing part did have an effect. I think one of the bp.tf admins said this.

So if you were asked if you murdered someone, would you say "I'm not really sure actually. I don't remember doing it, but I might have done it while I was drunk or while I was asleep. You never know."?

 

This thread should be locked anyways, rather pointless and should be dealt with privately between the 2 parties.

This thread doesn't break any rules. Locking it would be stupid.

[Blue Screen of Death]

I've talked to countless people like I did with Christly. Most of them are already aware they screwed up, or if not, they would ask if anything happened. They tell me the truth and how everything happened. Some don't have any idea what SR is.

 

Christly knows what SR is. He knows about the rules. And yes, he probably didn't know he traded with a scammer. Why? Because he doesn't check. He confessed he doesn't check. That's disregard for the rules. There are several different ways to answer that question, many already explicit here. If he knows he doesn't check people as he should, how can he be sure he doesn't trade with scammers? How is this possible? It's makes no sense. It's a contradiction. And saying no, twice, just makes it obvious he was hiding things.

 

High value trade with a scammer - bad.

Lying - bad.

Contradicting himself - bad.

Skipping checks aware of rules - bad.

 

And I'm at fault? OK, think whatever you want.

I doubt people would show such reaction if Raxshi was the victim. This only shows how biased some people are.

 

 

The reminder is here again: do you think checking people is unnecessary and a waste of time? Fine, don't do it. But don't complain if you get banned. Because the punishment will eventually come, and the higher the knowledge and rank you have, the higher people expect from you and your punishment will be. The rules are there to be followed, if you don't want to follow them then use another site.

 

I have 16 years of internet and over 10 of community building/management. I've seen it all. And there's a reason why other communities are interested in my work, including SR (who I declined for personal reasons) - Straightforward actions, experience, professionalism, impartial actions and good judgement. Ask anybody who works with me and they will say it.

 

This case, as any other after I reach a decision, is out of my hands. And as some here showed total inability to handle a discussion properly, throwing insults at me and twisting my words, I'll rather not visit this place anymore as the time I spent reading bad content here could had been spent doing reports on the site. I thank the mods for trying to keep it civil and I wish this had not been necessary.

[Amen]

So if you were asked if you murdered someone, would you say "I'm not really sure actually. I don't remember doing it, but I might have done it while I was drunk or while I was asleep. You never know."?

 

This thread doesn't break any rules. Locking it would be stupid.

 

If I knew for sure that there was no way i could have done it then I would say "no." If I couldn't remember what happened in the past day, then yes, that response would be the right one. (Christley knew he didn't check everyone he traded with, it's really the same thing)