About the Muslim refugees

[Дебра]

jiberish

 

1 muslim committed rape = all muslims just go rape people in europe? by that logic everyone is a rapist because im sure someone from whatever race/religion you are a part of has raped someone.

Also saying nothing good can come from someone calling their god by what you deem to be the wrong name is complete bullshit. Muslims are good people too https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/3l81us/ahmed_mohammeds_family_offers_pizza_to_crowd_of/cv4ag3o

[NOpainNOgain]

1 muslim committed rape = all muslims just go rape people in europe? by that logic everyone is a rapist because im sure someone from whatever race/religion you are a part of has raped someone.

 

The amount of terrors Muslim does now-days are much more than other Religions. You cant deny this. The Muslims do much more trouble than other religions, much much more. This is the reason why no 1 wants them in Europe. And yes many Muslims are rapers as i mentioned, i saw a rape myself by 2 Muslim young teenagers in Israel, they tried to rape 2 girls that came back from a party( the girls were drunk) and i called the police. Muslims rape cause they are too horny, they cant even kiss a girl before the guy marries her. This makes you too horny to control your hormones so you just go rape and try to make it silent as possible. 

[polar]

more jiberish

 

Are you Donald Trump?

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

The amount of terrors Muslim does now-days are much more than other Religions. You cant deny this. The Muslims do much more trouble than other religions, much much more. This is the reason why no 1 wants them in Europe. And yes many Muslims are rapers as i mentioned, i saw a rape myself by 2 Muslim young teenagers in Israel, they tried to rape 2 girls that came back from a party( the girls were drunk) and i called the police. Muslims rape cause they are too horny, they cant even kiss a girl before the guy marries her. This makes you too horny to control your hormones so you just go rape and try to make it silent as possible. 

 

Look dude, you can think whatever you want of muslims, I think you're racist as shit but that's besides the point... stop speaking for other people. "This is the reason why no 1 wants them in Europe" is just patently false... I am part of a local group appealing for and collecting donations (material and monetary) for refugees in calais and other camps in europe and literally thousands of people have donated lorry loads full of stuff as well as thousands of pounds. Plenty of people actually give a shit about other humans, stop pretending you can speak for a continent with diverse views.

 

Hundreds of thousands of people have turned out for refugees welcome rallies in england, and many more across europe are doing whatever they can to help. I'm sure there are plenty of racists just like you as well, but don't act like europe is this homogenous white racist utopia because we're fucking not.

[Professional Map Painter]

 

This factor's importance is so small in today's conflicts, it's negligible.

It's not contributive at all when it happened literally a hundred years ago and there are much bigger issues at hand than forever hating on old dead nations. It's utterly out of context when you're not taking into consideration the actual factors for the development of middle-eastern countries into warzones and instead looking at middle-east as a nation allegedly affected by dead issues first.

I don't think there's ever been a prolonged period of peace in the Middle East, at all. The whole "Muslims v Europe" dynamic can be traced back to the Crusades, Manzikert, and to a lesser extent, the Reconquista. Groups like ISIS are simply modernised Ghazis.

[Hyperqube]

Starting with the bottom of your post; while my personal situation doesn't necessarily reflect the larger picture, news sites and literally dozens of death reports and casualties every day don't lie.

 

I strongly suggest you read up on the current socio-economical and politic states of countries surrounding ISIS.

Thing is ... News DOES lie. Just look how some people talk about either "main stream media", or "fox news", "liberal propaganda",  ... News focusses on what's interesting - not what's representative.

 

For instance, in the US, each die 1600 people die of heart disease, and 1500 die of cancer (we're talking 1.2 million deaths per year)

The news? it focusses on that one guy who shot 10 people ...

I don't like using news as a source. Instead I refer to rely studies, statistics and analysis of situations.

 

Your presumption on that I'm not aware of the socio-ecomonmic or political state / political state of countries, is wrong. Because - when it's relevant, I look it up.

 

Secondly, your argument of Americans that would be supporting retaliation, while interesting, is off-topic; one is based off religious concepts, a culture equal to one of a trashcan and an overall corrupt way of living expanding over the course of decades, the other is based off a single act of terrorism originating from the former. Do you see the difference?

 

I don't see the difference: claiming one is justified and the other is evil? what you're doing is silly, because people on the other side of the debatde will argue exactly the opposite. Heck, pretty much word for word, I could see a Hamas extremist saying the same thing on about Isreal.

 

The example I've used is quite straight forward. I've given you an other example of people who are willing to supports or condone some form of violent actions for their cause. In fact - they condoned the violence, while knwoing there would be many innocent people dying ... that's worse then just for example condoning violence against 'legal' targets - while that number is included in the 1 on 4 muslims)

 

Look, you argued that 325 milion people on a global scale is a lot. With a simple example I've proven it is not. Now, I can't tell you what to do with that information - you can close your eyes, cover your ears, and complain that it's not the same thing ... but whatever you do ... it doesn't change the facts. Only 1 in 4 muslims would "supports or condone", "some form" of violent jihad. that isn't a lot.

 

The amount of terrors Muslim does now-days are much more than other Religions. You cant deny this.

The Muslims do much more trouble than other religions, much much more. This is the reason why no 1 wants them in Europe.

 

Oh, but most of the terror attacks are from ISIS & Boko Haram. You cant deny this.

 

Europe is getting the people who're running away from ISIS & Boko Haram. There's a serious problem with your logic if you judge the refugees by what ISIS / Boko Haram does.

 

 

And yes many Muslims are rapers as i mentioned,

 

Sigh ... that moment you need to explain that 4 of the top 5 rape countries* (South Africa, Botswana, Nicaragua and Grenada) are mostly Christian countries, while for example Indonesia is an islam country (while very safe) ...

 

*: the last one is sweden, mostly christian/atheist/... with very lax(if that's the word) laws about rape and such, which skew it's numbers.

[Kuuko-San]

probably brought up, but I still find it stupid how you're tagging them as "muslim refugees"

unlike every other reputable newsource, which has mentioned little to nothing about their belief's but moreso that they're the "Syrian Refugees".

 

just a little annoyance I had with it.

 

Anyway, I've been following the story about this for the past few weeks, and I'm disgusted by the british government.

 

All the refugees we've allowed in could fit onto a single tube.

 

eh. who cares about human rights though? certainly not david.

 

/britishoff

[0123847a;fsdaklf]

religious intolerance of any kind has no place here.

 

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but you want me to tolerate a religion that forces women to cover up everything except their eyes? Why should I tolerate a religion that gives women next to no freedom?

[F CHARLIE]

European countries divided up the middle east based on the resources it was trying to get out of it and not based on ethnic/religious considerations. There were some countries that were able to resist some of this influence, such as Turkey, Iran, Egypt but these states couldn't hold back the dominance of European colonial advances.

 

For example, Kurdistan really needs to be a thing but in order for that to happen, Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria would have to allow that land (where the Kurds live) to succeed from their country and they don't eant to. Lets look at Syria. This nation is made of several groups but is dominated by Sunni muslims. The current civil war stems from how it was formed by France and the UK. Iraq is the same except there the minority group held power. Isreal and Palestine are another failure along the same lines. All of this after the European states had innitially promised Arabs would have control over the process nation forming as the Ottoman empire was disintigrating. They were betrayed and did not trust Europe after that. The middle east needs to be restructured but the effort will be enormous. Instead, we get war as these various governments try to hold onto power.

[Xeomuz]

 

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but you want me to tolerate a religion that forces women to cover up everything except their eyes? Why should I tolerate a religion that gives women next to no freedom?

[Hyperqube]

a religion that forces women to cover up everything except their eyes?

except ... hijabs?

 

 

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying ... Why should I tolerate a religion

forum rules:

 

No racism. Any ethnic slurs or epithets will not be tolerated. Being proud of your country/heritage is one thing, but bigoted or intolerant comments are not cool.

 

the admin informed that something symelar also applies to religion (and probabbly other forms of bigotry as well - as the reasoning seems to be that "bigoted & intolerant comments are not cool")

 

[Hyperqube]

[Professional Map Painter]

probably brought up, but I still find it stupid how you're tagging them as "muslim refugees"

unlike every other reputable newsource, which has mentioned little to nothing about their belief's but moreso that they're the "Syrian Refugees".

 

just a little annoyance I had with it.

 

Anyway, I've been following the story about this for the past few weeks, and I'm disgusted by the british government.

 

All the refugees we've allowed in could fit onto a single tube.

 

eh. who cares about human rights though? certainly not david.

 

/britishoff

Perhaps we'd be in a better position to accept refugees if the Brown government hadn't turned the country into a shithole - can you imagine the strain on the NHS (which Dave seriously need a to reform already, NHS management is diabolical) if we allowed unrestricted immigration. We should ensure thatvthose we take in are genuine refugees (and we have the empty homes to house them), however have you wondered why, instead of staying in France, there is a huge migrant camp in Calais? But no, screw Dave for trying to do something about the war in Syria so that the refugees can return to their homes and live in peace (if we'd done more than just bomb Libya it wouldn't be in the situation it is in right now). Screw Dave for redirecting foreign aid from countries like Zimbabwe (money goes to Mugabe) and India (money goes to government that doesn't care about their rampant poverty crisis) to organisations helping refugees. Screw Dave for realising that there are legitimate concerns about taking in refugees - we only want genuine refugees, not ISIS fighters or economic migrants; Croatia is already at breaking point and others will follow. It's also pretty naive to assume that all of these refugees are coming from one country.

 

edit: http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/09/06/migrants-in-the-balkans-everyone-wants-to-be-syrian , so much for them all being from Syria.

[F CHARLIE]

I want to post this thought. If the west had publically recognized, say three years ago, that there was going to be thousands of refugees and we should get ahead of this and provide transport via military ships (with private ships also involved), everyone would be better off. These refugees have paid $2,000, or so, per person to smugglers. Thos has been horrible. The west could have charged $1,000 per person leaving these people resources for when they arrive at destination countries. You can process them effectively as they board ships at low cost. It was also pre isis so, plus. Few people would have died while also getting refugees who have something to contribute immediately upon arrival.

 

Currently, some nations, like Hungary, have spent millions trying to keep them out while garnering the ire of the rest of Europe. Other nations are also loosing a lot of money and resources in through out.

 

Remember, in the beginning, there weren't asany refugees so it's easy to get this going. Once nations have faith in the system, then more can be processed at minimum cost as it goes along. I want to restate. No matter what, the current problem is costing countries money and resources a lot already.

 

Thoughts?

[Hyperqube]

IIRC, the cost (but perhaps this is more in total) is estimated to $ 3,000 - 4,000 (from an interview with someone who hadn't left)
 
Now, I indeed get the idea: why let criminals make a buck of this, if we can do it better, and we could better use the money (or something like that).
 
The problem though, is frame of mind: a refugee isn't supposed to buy his way into europe. Economically, your solution seems viable; morally, it's not: What will you do with the people who stand on the shore, but can't cough up the price for a ticket? The laws on refugees don't make a distinction between rich refugees & poor refugess.
 
*thinking* perhaps a way to circumvent that, would be to make it legal; meaning what smugglers do, can be taken over by companies (taxes, less unemployment, stimulating the market (you need to buy stuff to set up a company), ...)
 

[Professional Map Painter]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/serbia/11878114/The-Afghan-Nato-interpreters-forced-to-walk-through-Europe-for-refugee-status.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/08/growing-concern-over-trade-in-fake-and-stolen-syrian-passports

 

Preferential treatment really isn't a good idea in the long run.

[Zcrab]

The amount of terrors Muslim does now-days are much more than other Religions. You cant deny this. The Muslims do much more trouble than other religions, much much more. This is the reason why no 1 wants them in Europe. And yes many Muslims are rapers as i mentioned, i saw a rape myself by 2 Muslim young teenagers in Israel, they tried to rape 2 girls that came back from a party( the girls were drunk) and i called the police. Muslims rape cause they are too horny, they cant even kiss a girl before the guy marries her. This makes you too horny to control your hormones so you just go rape and try to make it silent as possible.

Well, you need to compare it with other religions. Do you have any idea of how bad the christian church was before it got reformed? Before the reformation the church was a money machine, lots of people died because of the church too. In fact, I think christianity has caused more deaths than islam has.

 

I think islam is about to go through their reformation too, I don't believe it will be able to stay as it is in todays society. All of these immirgrants is only the start of it. If you sound like you're saying ALL muslims are terrorists, but that's far from the case. Most are nice people that are as good as europeans.

[Tats]

Well, you need to compare it with other religions. Do you have any idea of how bad the christian church was before it got reformed? Before the reformation the christian church was a money machine, lots of people died because of the church too. In fact, I think christianity has caused more deaths than islam has.

 

Maybe you need to develop a bit more? Which christian Church ? Which reform ?

People always used and still use religion as a business, you can blame the persons, not the religion.

Therefore, it is not very relevant to count the number of deaths of each religion. And if you want to, history will disapprove your thought.

 

I think islam is about to go through their reformation too, I don't believe it will be able to stay as it is in todays society. All of these immirgrants is only the start of it. If you sound like you're saying ALL muslims are terrorists, but that's far from the case. Most are nice people that are as good as europeans.

 

I also think it is a turning point for Islam. I would say we have a political Islam and a civilizational Islam. Here is my idea : they both want to conquer the world. First approach is political and enforces the sharia, and has a radical view of the Quran. Second approach is a pacific approach that focuses on arab civilization and uses Islam to propagate. These two approaches appeared from the very beginning of Islam, and are now in a fight to the death. Radical Islam has taken advantage, and is in many aspects, the objective ally of USA's foreign policy in Middle East.

 

About the migrants crisis :

The refugees are of muslim culture, a vast majority is muslim, and a minority of radical islam. An active minority (radical islam) is always superior to a passive minority (the average muslim person) : the first one dominates the other. If the problem is true among muslims, it is still true among multicultural societies (England/UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Sweden, maybe some others). When these european countries welcome migrants, they don't ask migrants to integrate, but to agglomerate in a multiculturalist approach. Our immigration policy works for culturally close persons, but is not adjusted to dominating cultures. That's why we don't have problems with other europeans or more generally christians. It also works for culturally distant people, such as asians, as long as they don't want to enforce their culture.

 

Therefore, the more you welcome muslim migrants, the more you increase this risk of radicalization. According to me, it is not a question of majority but of minority. So there are three parameters :

- the number,

- the more or less cultural distance,

- the active/passive culture.

 

In the actual migrants crisis, the 3 criteria are fulfilled.

 

Obviously I am reasoning in a perspective where I don't want, as a native european of my own country, to become a cultural minority.

 

I leave aside the economical and social questions about the migrants crisis.

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

> blame the persons not the religions

> except if it's islam in which case OMG GUYS BE AFRAID IT WILL TAKE OVER WORLD IF WE LET IT AHHHHHHHH FEAR AHHHHH PARANOIA AHHHHH IMMA BIGOT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

More lols from the trolls.

 

Muslim refugees don't want to impose their culture over yours, they want to get the fuck out of war-torn shitholes and flee from the very radical islamists you condemn. Alienating and othering people is way more likely to create more extremists than welcoming people and being able to respect each others differences. I'm a mixed race, half iranian person who was born in britain, and I am british. I am absolutely opposed to extremism and radical islam, for the very reason that I am british. Britain is my home, british values are my values (to the extent that any average british person can say that, obviously we all have some differences too), I don't feel like an alien in this land I feel like it's as mine as anyone elses. If I didn't, if I was constantly marginalised, abused and spit on, I might feel more in common with those who strongly oppose the west. Is that what you want? For these people you fear to hate you? I don't condone or agree with terrorism in any way, but it's absolutely a response, a reaction, and the USA and many EU countries had a part to play in provoking it. You want to provoke that in more people and become a self-fulfilling prophecy that's your choice, but the rest of us are going to carry on fighting the terrorists AND the bigots.

[Cave]

This explains it pretty well

[Zcrab]

Maybe you need to develop a bit more? Which christian Church ? Which reform ?

People always used and still use religion as a business, you can blame the persons, not the religion.

Therefore, it is not very relevant to count the number of deaths of each religion. And if you want to, history will disapprove your thought.

 

The Protestant Reformation, it's common to just call it "the reformation", no?

 

But you don't seem to get the point of my post? I responded to AfricanDrugLord which said that muslims create much more problems than other religions. So I pointed out how christians have caused huge problems for alot of people too. I don't know why you are telling me I need to develop a bit more, I think my post made alot of sense in context.

[Tats]

Muslim refugees don't want to impose their culture over yours, they want to get the fuck out of war-torn shitholes and flee from the very radical islamists you condemn. Alienating and othering people is way more likely to create more extremists than welcoming people and being able to respect each others differences. I'm a mixed race, half iranian person who was born in britain, and I am british. I am absolutely opposed to extremism and radical islam, for the very reason that I am british. Britain is my home, british values are my values (to the extent that any average british person can say that, obviously we all have some differences too), I don't feel like an alien in this land I feel like it's as mine as anyone elses. If I didn't, if I was constantly marginalised, abused and spit on, I might feel more in common with those who strongly oppose the west. Is that what you want? For these people you fear to hate you? I don't condone or agree with terrorism in any way, but it's absolutely a response, a reaction, and the USA and many EU countries had a part to play in provoking it. You want to provoke that in more people and become a self-fulfilling prophecy that's your choice, but the rest of us are going to carry on fighting the terrorists AND the bigots.

 

1. The vast majority of migrants aren't / shouldn't be called refugees.

2. If we don't ask migrants to integrate, and adopt our culture/values, a majority of migrants will keep their culture, and some will try to impose their culture/religion.

3. If we welcome too much migrants, cultural equilibrium will change and they will be able to impose their views on society.

4. I think we have reached a point where most european countries (such as England/UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Sweden) can no longer welcome muslim migrants without breaking their cultural equilibrium or identity.

 

I don't really know what you mean by british values. Do you feel british because you speak english with no accent, or you drink tea, or you like british humor... ? I don't know what is your level of integration in british culture, and I don't want to make general rules out of a personal case. This is an important debate to have, and the hosting countries didn't make it clear for newcomers. There is an obvious ambiguity, and the risk of muslim radicalization among our european countries is real and increasing. Maybe you feel at ease, if in a decade, half the british population becomes muslim, but I would personnally not in my country. I think you misunderstood one my thoughts, I don't care about your race, your skin color, type of hair, etc. I just pay attention to your cultural identity. If you are of african, arab or asian descent, it doesn't affect me, but the way you behave in society, will definitely affect me in a way or another.

 

Hopefully you don't agree with terrorism, lol !

 

Don't say USA or EU have a part in provoking such a reaction. For example, many europeans don't wan't to welcome more migrants from Middle east. This is why, the media and politics started this migrants campaign, so as to influence people, make them feel guilty, and finally make them accept this massive immigration. You need to make a distinction between what politics are responsible of, and what people really want. The foreign policy of some european countries participated in the crisis, but I personnally disagree with it and don't want to be associated with it. I agree the average european has a political awareness close to zero, but the average european tends to disagree with muslim immigration. So are we still in democratic countries, or should we overstep people's will ? It seems the politics no longer care about their people, at least, since the french and dutch 'NO' to european treaty.

[Tats]

The Protestant Reformation, it's common to just call it "the reformation", no?

 

But you don't seem to get the point of my post? I responded to AfricanDrugLord which said that muslims create much more problems than other religions. So I pointed out how christians have caused huge problems for alot of people too. I don't know why you are telling me I need to develop a bit more, I think my post made alot of sense in context.

 

Yes it is commonly known as the Reformation. I think it is because you didn't use a capital letter for it.

 

So if I follow what you say, the Catholic Church was a money machine. Money can be used in a good or bad manner.

Every or almost every human institution needs money to work, so the problem is not money, but how it is used.

My question was, behind the "money machine", what do you imply in terms of deaths ? and how do you relate it to christiannity ?

 

PS : I know it is a bit off-topic, so if you don't want to answer or elaborate, I would understand.

[F CHARLIE]

IIRC, the cost (but perhaps this is more in total) is estimated to $ 3,000 - 4,000 (from an interview with someone who hadn't left)

 

Now, I indeed get the idea: why let criminals make a buck of this, if we can do it better, and we could better use the money (or something like that).

 

The problem though, is frame of mind: a refugee isn't supposed to buy his way into europe. Economically, your solution seems viable; morally, it's not: What will you do with the people who stand on the shore, but can't cough up the price for a ticket? The laws on refugees don't make a distinction between rich refugees & poor refugess.

 

*thinking* perhaps a way to circumvent that, would be to make it legal; meaning what smugglers do, can be taken over by companies (taxes, less unemployment, stimulating the market (you need to buy stuff to set up a company), ...)

 

 

I understand your moral arguement but by letting smugglers do it is worse than doing it yourself. There are ways to do this such as; those who can not pay that amount could stay in Lebanon or Turkey while those that can pay will be transported. Its about processing people effectively and efficiently.

 

Personally, I say transport them for free. Thier human beings and we should care for eachother but that will never be received well so I post this. Part of this is to make people remember that something can be fone ahead of time and this is more painless than what we are seeing now.

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

1. The vast majority of migrants aren't / shouldn't be called refugees.

2. If we don't ask migrants to integrate, and adopt our culture/values, a majority of migrants will keep their culture, and some will try to impose their culture/religion.

3. If we welcome too much migrants, cultural equilibrium will change and they will be able to impose their views on society.

4. I think we have reached a point where most european countries (such as England/UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Sweden) can no longer welcome muslim migrants without breaking their cultural equilibrium or identity.

 

I don't really know what you mean by british values. Do you feel british because you speak english with no accent, or you drink tea, or you like british humor... ? I don't know what is your level of integration in british culture, and I don't want to make general rules out of a personal case. This is an important debate to have, and the hosting countries didn't make it clear for newcomers. There is an obvious ambiguity, and the risk of muslim radicalization among our european countries is real and increasing. Maybe you feel at ease, if in a decade, half the british population becomes muslim, but I would personnally not in my country. I think you misunderstood one my thoughts, I don't care about your race, your skin color, type of hair, etc. I just pay attention to your cultural identity. If you are of african, arab or asian descent, it doesn't affect me, but the way you behave in society, will definitely affect me in a way or another.

 

Hopefully you don't agree with terrorism, lol !

 

Don't say USA or EU have a part in provoking such a reaction. For example, many europeans don't wan't to welcome more migrants from Middle east. This is why, the media and politics started this migrants campaign, so as to influence people, make them feel guilty, and finally make them accept this massive immigration. You need to make a distinction between what politics are responsible of, and what people really want. The foreign policy of some european countries participated in the crisis, but I personnally disagree with it and don't want to be associated with it. I agree the average european has a political awareness close to zero, but the average european tends to disagree with muslim immigration. So are we still in democratic countries, or should we overstep people's will ? It seems the politics no longer care about their people, at least, since the french and dutch 'NO' to european treaty.

 

1) the people this thread is about are refugees.

2) my family are migrants, and we're doing just fine mixing cultures.

3) welcome to the world, are you unaware of history? this has been done as long as humans have been alive, cultural evolution is a thing, etc. it's a very slow process though, the idea that you're gonna wake up tomorrow in a muslim country (wtf even is that, there's a huge amount of cultural differences across different middle-eastern countries, they're not one giant homogenous mess of brown people) is completely ridiculous.

4) that's nice for you, but thankfully you don't make policy for us.

 

I don't know how to respond to this honestly, because it's just stupid nonsense. Muslims aren't trying to take over your country dude, stop being ridiculous.

 

They're not migrants, they are refugees. Refugees fleeing wars that the west played a huge role in creating in numerous ways from funding and provision of weapons to literally bombing the shit out of people. You keep talking about radical islamists taking over, that is exactly what is happening in syria and is exactly what these people are fleeing. Wouldn't you want somewhere to flee if that was happening to you? Or would you stay and be shot?