US Government shut down 3 hours ago

[Vegan T-Rex]

Some Americans said that it wasn't a total "shutdown" the government is still kind of working there. I don't know if I should believe that or not

-Some government workers are expected to work without pay, so that counts

-The army is still working

so, um, I guess its still doing a bit of work. 

[F CHARLIE]

The problem with the medical system is lawyers and law suits. Doctors are afraid to be a doctor. Most doctors can diagnose whats wrong with you without running a bunch of tests, but because of all the law suits doctors are afraid to make decisions like that, fearing malpractice lawsuits. As a result medicine is far more expensive then it should be. I.e. it shouldn't cost a few hundred thousand dollars to get a bypass surgery....thats outrageous. And the sole reason for the extraordinary cost is all the lawsuits and insurance required my doctors to not get completely screwed every time they make a mistake, which is inevitable based on the limited knowledge we actually have of the human body.

 

 

I have been around a while longer than you.  Conservatives have been saying this for a long, long time but studies have shown its effect to be negligible.  Consider that when ever problems like this arise both the health care institution and the insurer will work together to reduce it.  There are methods to minimize mistakes and keep those costs down.  Law suits have been a big line for conservatives because it fits their world view of things.  The cost of health care equipment, on the other hand, does not fit their world view.  They are less concerned when a company is making obscene amounts of money from manufacturing basic, none complex, items to be sold to health care institutions.  This is not all equipment obviously.  Some is expensive to make and to purchase.

 

The point I make is that this particular conservative excuse has been around for awhile and is not a major contribute to cost increase but conservatives like to use it.

[Pyrocide]

The government shutdown means that non essential government agencies and businesses (Lockheed Martin) parts of or whole companies are shutdown and said workers are forced to leave and cannot work unless they have a non-government job on the side (which most do not).

 

The arguably "essential" government jobs (e.g., Dept of Justice - includes ATF, FBI, DEA etc)  remain open for business but the workers that do the work are no longer paid for their time and are working for free until the shutdown ends. If workers are expected to work but leave or do not come in, they are subject to firing; which is horseshit, why would anyone work for free in this shitty economy? Maybe if gas wasnt $3-5 all over the US and was back to less than a dollar, even then what happens when you have a flat tire and have no money to repair it, do you get fired because the asshats on capital hill cant get their shit together to get you paid? 

 

The active duty military either serving on foreign land or in US bases will remain active and continue to get paid. Not sure on reserve military.

 

There are some that believe, to actually show what it means to run without a government, the entire government including active duty military would no longer get paid and furlough all government workers including Osama and all House and Senate until a resolution can be sought. I'm partial to this as you only show your true cowardly face when your money is on the line. Me, it doesnt matter one way or the other if Osamacase passes or if the gov't shuts down for a couple years. I don't have a gov't job and I already pay out the ass for insurance for me and my fam. 

[jorisk322]

The government shutdown means that non essential government agencies and businesses (Lockheed Martin) parts of or whole companies are shutdown and said workers are forced to leave and cannot work unless they have a non-government job on the side (which most do not).

 

The arguably "essential" government jobs (e.g., Dept of Justice - includes ATF, FBI, DEA etc)  remain open for business but the workers that do the work are no longer paid for their time and are working for free until the shutdown ends. If workers are expected to work but leave or do not come in, they are subject to firing; which is horseshit, why would anyone work for free in this shitty economy? Maybe if gas wasnt $3-5 all over the US and was back to less than a dollar, even then what happens when you have a flat tire and have no money to repair it, do you get fired because the asshats on capital hill cant get their shit together to get you paid? 

 

The active duty military either serving on foreign land or in US bases will remain active and continue to get paid. Not sure on reserve military.

 

There are some that believe, to actually show what it means to run without a government, the entire government including active duty military would no longer get paid and furlough all government workers including Osama and all House and Senate until a resolution can be sought. I'm partial to this as you only show your true cowardly face when your money is on the line. Me, it doesnt matter one way or the other if Osamacase passes or if the gov't shuts down for a couple years. I don't have a gov't job and I already pay out the ass for insurance for me and my fam. 

IMO, the first people that should stop getting paid are the ones who're currently fucking everything up. There's no real reason for them to give in, because they will just say 'Yes, it was hard for some people, but the other side admitted we were right, and that's all that matters'. When they don't have any money themselves, they might make haste. I guess that won't work very well though, as they probably have some money saved up somewhere.

[F CHARLIE]

I don't expect the house to get in line by tonight. I don't know how long before that causes problems. I heard something like the 24th or so.

[Pyrocide]

IMO, the first people that should stop getting paid are the ones who're currently fucking everything up. There's no real reason for them to give in, because they will just say 'Yes, it was hard for some people, but the other side admitted we were right, and that's all that matters'. When they don't have any money themselves, they might make haste. I guess that won't work very well though, as they probably have some money saved up somewhere.

never gonna happen. The lawmakers will make it illegal to stop their paychecks during a shutdown.

 

Hell the House has already made it impossible to end the shutdown unless 1 of 2 people open the floor to a vote to end the shutdown.

[F CHARLIE]

i am amazed they got it done.  it must have been hard to face the fact that they lost.  i watched the news feed of them leaving the capitol building.  what a sad looking bunch

[The 4th Harbringer]

The sad looking bunch now is the Democrats, all of the ones up for midterm reelections are quickly trying to pass the Obamacare delays that they voted against just two weeks prior.  Dumbshits.  It's funny seeing how the Republicans essentially have recuperated all lost support from the shutdown and have thrown all the baggage on the liberals, as they should.  This was going to be a fiasco, now the millions of Americans with rising healthcare costs can see exactly HOW MUCH of a fiasco it was, is, and will be until Obamacare finally collapses under its own weight.

 

Another shutdown needed?  Let's hope.

[qazz42]

IMO, the first people that should stop getting paid are the ones who're currently fucking everything up. There's no real reason for them to give in, because they will just say 'Yes, it was hard for some people, but the other side admitted we were right, and that's all that matters'. When they don't have any money themselves, they might make haste. I guess that won't work very well though, as they probably have some money saved up somewhere.

 

that's not what Nancy Pelosi told me

 

http://now.msn.com/nancy-pelosi-says-cutting-congress-pay-undermines-dignity-of-job

 

 

i am amazed they got it done.  it must have been hard to face the fact that they lost.  i watched the news feed of them leaving the capitol building.  what a sad looking bunch

>If you like your old doctor/plan, you can keep it. Period.

 

whoops. wrong

 

>We are not spying on your calls

 

haha, totally wrong

 

>This will lower your rates and premiums

 

yeah, a 300 percent increase in rates and you don't even get to keep your old plan to boot!

 

it's looking so great on the demoshits, isn't it?

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

>If you like your old doctor/plan, you can keep it. Period.

 

whoops. wrong

 

 

>This will lower your rates and premiums

 

yeah, a 300 percent increase in rates and you don't even get to keep your old plan to boot!

 

it's looking so great on the demoshits, isn't it?

No, not wrong. You can keep your old doctor/plan if you want to, you're just going to be paying for obamacare as well as your real medical care. 

 

But but but government run programs are so efficient, that that 300% you're paying now will soon be like .00000000000001%. 

[qazz42]

No, not wrong. You can keep your old doctor/plan if you want to, you're just going to be paying for obamacare as well as your real medical care. 

 

But but but government run programs are so efficient, that that 300% you're paying now will soon be like .00000000000001%. 

 

and it'll be like magic, too! The money just comes from no where!

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

and it'll be like magic, too! The money just comes from no where!

Yep. 

[jjjon123]

oh the irony

[puddingkip]

Am I the only one here that supports mandatory health care?

Note: I do not know the in-depth ideas of Obamacare, like how much you pay and what all gets covered.

[Cedarium]

Am I the only one here that supports mandatory health care?

Note: I do not know the in-depth ideas of Obamacare, like how much you pay and what all gets covered.

#canada # freehealthcare

[The 4th Harbringer]

Am I the only one here that supports mandatory health care?

Note: I do not know the in-depth ideas of Obamacare, like how much you pay and what all gets covered.

 

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21222195-obama-administration-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance

 

Millions have already entirely lost all health insurance, a good third, or more, of the population may lose it within a year

 

Hope that puts things in perspective

 

 

Anyways, supporting mandatory healthcare is dumb because there's no way the government can implement it effectively, especially the federal government.  As we're seeing now.

[Pyrocide]

@Pudding: Mandatory healthcare is one thing, you are not alone as I think everyone should pay for their own healthcare. I do not believe mandatory healthcare is possible (unless entirely free) however due to the numbers. OsamaCare is a whole 'nother animal. Just one instance of how OsamaCare works. From how I read parts of the actual act, If your current insurance plan does not fit in the government guidelines of what quailifies as proper healthcare then you're immediately dropped and are forced to pay more per month to get a healthcare plan that fits in the guidelines. IE a lot of people were lied to with the whole "keep your current healthcare" speech.

 

A large difference between Canada having free healthcare vs USA having pay to live healthcare is sheer numbers in populous. 35M vs 315M is a very big difference in number of doctors needing to be paid for services.

 

Demorats vs Republicunts is a fight that is going to exist until he country is destroyed.

[qazz42]

Well, I hear you get great health care in canada. It's low cost, it's speedy, and there's literally no wait nor lottery.

 

too bad you have to meow or bark for that to happen.

 

If your human, it might be "free", but your SOL if you need it now.

[puddingkip]

@Pudding: Mandatory healthcare is one thing, you are not alone as I think everyone should pay for their own healthcare. I do not believe mandatory healthcare is possible (unless entirely free) however due to the numbers. OsamaCare is a whole 'nother animal. Just one instance of how OsamaCare works. From how I read parts of the actual act, If your current insurance plan does not fit in the government guidelines of what quailifies as proper healthcare then you're immediately dropped and are forced to pay more per month to get a healthcare plan that fits in the guidelines. IE a lot of people were lied to with the whole "keep your current healthcare" speech.

 

A large difference between Canada having free healthcare vs USA having pay to live healthcare is sheer numbers in populous. 35M vs 315M is a very big difference in number of doctors needing to be paid for services.

 

Demorats vs Republicunts is a fight that is going to exist until he country is destroyed.

I don't know the speech you're talking about. But if he did lie, that's not really a good thing. In fact, it's a really bad thing.

 

I seriously disagree with you on the population. Because, yeah you need to pay aroun 10 times as many doctors, but you also get ~10 times more money. So that should equal each other away. The big problem I think however is the sheer size of your country, not the population. We (Netherlands) have ~17 million people, but becuase of a very high population/km2 ratio everybody lives near a hospital. Hospitals (at least here) are almost never overcrowded, the biggest problem would probably be that if you need to be picked up by an ambulance and driven to the hospital that takes hours in the States if you live in a desolate area.

 

And I just hope different political parties will spring up. A 2 party system doesn't really work.

[Woifi The Viking]

I don't know the speech you're talking about. But if he did lie, that's not really a good thing. In fact, it's a really bad thing.

 

I seriously disagree with you on the population. Because, yeah you need to pay aroun 10 times as many doctors, but you also get ~10 times more money. So that should equal each other away. The big problem I think however is the sheer size of your country, not the population. We (Netherlands) have ~17 million people, but becuase of a very high population/km2 ratio everybody lives near a hospital. Hospitals (at least here) are almost never overcrowded, the biggest problem would probably be that if you need to be picked up by an ambulance and driven to the hospital that takes hours in the States if you live in a desolate area.

 

And I just hope different political parties will spring up. A 2 party system doesn't really work.

Austira had many different parties for some years now but this was probably the last election where the two biggest parties still hold the majority. But I'm not sure if 3 parties in the government really works since they most likely stand each other party in their way instead of cooperating.

[puddingkip]

Austira had many different parties for some years now but this was probably the last election where the two biggest parties still hold the majority. But I'm not sure if 3 parties in the government really works since they most likely stand each other party in their way instead of cooperating.

yeah, many parties also doesn't work well. In fact, democracy doesn't work well. But that's another topic. My main problem with a 2 party system like UK (well, they have 3 now) and USA have, is that it's so much more about winning the election rather than ruling a country. You can have a complete crap idea, but as long as the other one is even worse, or if you manage to trash talk the other guy enough, you win the elections and rule the country. Nobody truly chose how they wanted the country ruled

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I seriously disagree with you on the population. Because, yeah you need to pay aroun 10 times as many doctors, but you also get ~10 times more money. So that should equal each other away.

 

The big problem I think however is the sheer size of your country, not the population. We (Netherlands) have ~17 million people, but becuase of a very high population/km2 ratio everybody lives near a hospital. Hospitals (at least here) are almost never overcrowded, the biggest problem would probably be that if you need to be picked up by an ambulance and driven to the hospital that takes hours in the States if you live in a desolate area.

 

And I just hope different political parties will spring up. A 2 party system doesn't really work.

You're making the assumption that it scales up, which it doesn't. There are some things which become horribly inefficient on a large scale. And only a small percentage of americans aren't within close proximity to a hospital, so thats not the problem. In-fact, there really isn't a problem. If you need medical care you will be treated no questions asked. The only problem is that it gets quite expensive, not because people are paying for their own insurance, but rather because of the all the lawsuits and malpractice insurance that doctors need to be doctors. Doctors aren't allowed to be doctors, and actually make calls they need to run tests even when they know whats wrong because they can't risk being sued. Furthermore, what makes you think a government run program would be any better? If theres one thing the government can't do, its run a business. The government is absolute shit at running a business, there are so many workers who are just standing around doing nothing, theres so much wasted money that a government run healthcare is far worse. 

 

 

 

yeah, many parties also doesn't work well. In fact, democracy doesn't work well. But that's another topic. My main problem with a 2 party system like UK (well, they have 3 now) and USA have, is that it's so much more about winning the election rather than ruling a country. You can have a complete crap idea, but as long as the other one is even worse, or if you manage to trash talk the other guy enough, you win the elections and rule the country. Nobody truly chose how they wanted the country ruled

More parties wouldn't change that.....the problem is the democrats and republicans both have a problem finding candidates (can't imagine why--thats like the same bull that SR is pulling--"Yea, we're under staffed, but no one else is qualified).

[puddingkip]

You're making the assumption that it scales up, which it doesn't. There are some things which become horribly inefficient on a large scale. And only a small percentage of americans aren't within close proximity to a hospital, so thats not the problem. In-fact, there really isn't a problem. If you need medical care you will be treated no questions asked. The only problem is that it gets quite expensive, not because people are paying for their own insurance, but rather because of the all the lawsuits and malpractice insurance that doctors need to be doctors. Doctors aren't allowed to be doctors, and actually make calls they need to run tests even when they know whats wrong because they can't risk being sued. Furthermore, what makes you think a government run program would be any better? If theres one thing the government can't do, its run a business. The government is absolute shit at running a business, there are so many workers who are just standing around doing nothing, theres so much wasted money that a government run healthcare is far worse. 

 

 

 

More parties wouldn't change that.....the problem is the democrats and republicans both have a problem finding candidates (can't imagine why--thats like the same bull that SR is pulling--"Yea, we're under staffed, but no one else is qualified).

 

WTF is wrong with your system. If a doctor makes a mistake, well, errare humane est. Sucks for the family of the dead guy, but doctors can make mistakes. And who says government needs to run the mandatory health care? Our isn't government run.