Should I try to appeal the bans?

[cranwell96]

   Edit: Changed the title to something more appropriate.

 

    DiamondHavoc's speech to Zemnmez ( http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/18336-just-putting-this-out-here-cranwell/ ) got me thinking; what do I actually contribute to the trading community? I'm not the type of person who remembers most of their interactions with others, so I hope some forum users can help me with that.

 

    On the topic of being banned, I'm not even going to try making any appeals unless I know that I haven't been judging myself too harshly for aiding a dormant scammer fence by buying their hat from the SCM. It's just hard to learn that you wasted the last 2-3 years of your life because you made foolish trade decisions.

 

    I apologize for making that trading thread after being banned from the main site, I did not see that I was banned until after I had posted it.

 

    For those of you that do not know what my first offense was: I traded a searing plasma heavy rag for an s.f. sniper and s.f. ambassador in April. I later learned the user I had traded with was marked when I was banned from outpost for two weeks(later reduced to one week) in June.

 

    Do not use this thread as an opportunity to insult any of the mods (or their respective sites) that banned me.

[Bobsplosion]

I don't want you to get permanently banned after making a few errors of judgment after several years of work.

[3v1lcl0n3]

he bought quite a few unusuals from SCM that way. knowingly

 

but 

 

1. i dun see anything wrong. someone will ALWAYS buy a hijacked/scammed unusual. why is it wrong you do it lol 

2. tf2 outpost didn't have anything against it (till today)

3. 10 buds for the burning (tossle ? was it) isn't THAT much of a profitable deal

 

so me goes with unban that mofo

[jjjon123]

Yes, for the simple fact that SCM should not be regulated by anyone other than Valve.

 

It should not matter who is selling or buying on SCM since it is Valves officially sanctioned marketplace. One should not have to worry about abiding by arbitrary rules set by the trading community when engaging in the SCM, especially when since there might be deals that shows up where you must act now and think later.

 

That being said, trading websites WILL inevitably try to regulate it (I knew this situation would eventually crop up) and you must abide by their rules if you want to be a part of the TF2 trading community.

 

That is why I suggest that pack up, dust yourself off, and move to CS:GO trading. TF2 has become a mind numbing bureaucracy of rules and regulations and is not worth the effort anymore.

 

EDIT: IMO, Outpost, SR, etc. will eventually strangle itself as more and more of TF2's most prolific and influential traders are being alienated and shutdown thus becoming their own downfall.

[ParmesanChicken]

No i dont think so you get second shot. you should learn from the first time sorry dude but its the truth

[PinkiePie]

what wrong with buying stolen items e.e

 

its not like the person who had them stolen from would get them back :L

[Bobsplosion]

what wrong with buying stolen items e.e

 

its not like the person who had them stolen from would get them back :L

It's showing the scammer that it's profitable to steal.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

what wrong with buying stolen items e.e

 

its not like the person who had them stolen from would get them back :L

buying fenced items IRL is quite illegal as well. 

 

Yes, for the simple fact that SCM should not be regulated by anyone other than Valve.

 

It should not matter who is selling or buying on SCM since it is Valves officially sanctioned marketplace. One should not have to worry about abiding by arbitrary rules set by the trading community when engaging in the SCM, especially when since there might be deals that shows up where you must act now and think later.

 

That is why I suggest that pack up, dust yourself off, and move to CS:GO trading. TF2 has become a mind numbing bureaucracy of rules and regulations and is not worth the effort anymore.

 

EDIT: IMO, Outpost, SR, etc. will eventually strangle itself as more and more of TF2's most prolific and influential traders are being alienated and shutdown thus becoming their own downfall.

Okay....lets be honest here...The only ones being shut down are the ones who are doing sketchy things. I see nothing wrong with that. 

 

"Rules and regulations" -- "Don't trade with scammers" isn't an outrageous requirement. 

 

Buying stolen items IRL is highly illegal, and as it should be. I don't see why TF2 should be any different. 

 

Should the ban be lifted? No. You've been warned once before; you know buying from scammers will end in this result (eventually), and you knew you were buying a scammed item. You should've known better than to buy it. 

[Chimera]

You're a wholesome person, your intentions are pure, you have definitely contributed to this community. When Not_Duck bought his scammed item, no one cared, but you get permabanned from everywhere? That looks like bias in a system; no, a hierarchy. Buying stolen items is indeed a mistake, but we are all human beings, capable of making mistakes plenty. Unfortunately TF2 trading sites feel like they are above our humane system, and absolutely strike down on others; I wouldn't be surprised if any of Helen or Sneeza's or whoever is really big in the community's items are hijacked/stolen. I know I've bought hijacked/stolen items before. We cannot be expected to be perfect individuals. When TF2Outpost, Bazaar, etc. figures this out, the community will be balanced.

 

This is not me promoting buying stolen items. I personally believe that if you buy stolen items, you should be forgiven, granted you do what is needed to deal with stolen items. 

[Darklunerninja]

Well... someone did post that the person you were purchasing it from was a scammer.  Yeah buying scammed items is bad practice but what should we do with them? Never trade them and let them sit in these people's backpacks?  If that's the case we would have a whole helluva lot less of them if we were all "good citizens" and didn't buy these things.  Its gotten to the point where people won't even buy an item if there is a scammer in the history and I just find that silly. 

 

"This is not me promoting buying stolen items. I personally believe that if you buy stolen items, you should be forgiven, granted you do what is needed to deal with stolen items."

-Chimera

[Heated Bread]

This thread is a bit childish and egotistical, IMO.  You broke the rules, got banned, and that's it.  What makes you think that you're special enough to be above everyone else?  We all have to be subject to the same rules.

 

Before anyone flames me, please remember that I have nothing personal against anyone here and that I am just expressing my point of view.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I know I've bought hijacked/stolen items before. We cannot be expected to be perfect individuals. When TF2Outpost, Bazaar, etc. figures this out, the community will be balanced.

Theres a VERY big difference between accidentally buying and knowingly buying. 

[cares]

If it was so bad Valve would've already trade banned you.

[Rebirth]

You are indeed beneficial to the market but you aren't special you got banned doing stuff you knew wasn't accepted. Deal with your punishment

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

If it was so bad Valve would've already trade banned you.

Thats not true at all. 

Valve trade bans people who steal from them, scam at least a few dozen people, or continually buy fenced items with paypal. 

[Kevin the Chicken God]

You do not deserve to be unbanned, it was very apparent to you that the tossle was owned by a marked user who was also banned on outpost

You were lucky enough to get a third chance, SCM purchases shouldn't be regulated by external trading sites like outpost, but you demonstrated you knew that the hat was owned by a marked individual and were even warned not to buy it because it might lead to a ban later on.

You were given proper warnings but you disregarded them for profit

 

Despite all of this, you were one of the nicest high tier traders out there, and it's unfortunate that some of the meaner ones get away with stuff like this despite numerous previous warnings, however the ban was deserved in this case

[The G What ™]

I don't think he should be banned because I believe these should be a case-by-case basis. I've said before that the idea of banning people for trading with scammers is dumb. 

 

Now, I am not saying aiding in a fence is alright or acceptable. Is there any proof at all that the specific hat cranwell bought was hijacked? Nope, because Steamrep apparently couldn't be bothered to actually tell us why this guy was marked in the first place. 

 

Who knows if this guy was even a scammer in the first place? There's no information given there. It could have even been he ran on a spycrab, because for some reason Steamrep sees that as a markable offense. 

 

Now on to the issue of the hat itself, which we don't know was ever scammed or hijacked, I think it's pretty damn unreasonable to enforce the standards of one site, famously understaffed and outdated, to the SCM. SCM is Valves' officially sanctioned method of trading, so how is it fair to ban anyone for something he purchased off of it?

 

I won't even go into the myriad of reasons why Steamrep is a blight on the community, and why it's far past time to stop caring what anything on that site says. Did Cranwell do something he probably shouldn't have? Yes, but only because the rules enforced against him are overly draconian and irresponsible. 

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

It could have even been he ran on a spycrab, because for some reason Steamrep sees that as a markable offense. 

 

Now on to the issue of the hat itself, which we don't know was ever scammed or hijacked, I think it's pretty damn unreasonable to enforce the standards of one site, famously understaffed and outdated, to the SCM. SCM is Valves' officially sanctioned method of trading, so how is it fair to ban anyone for something he purchased off of it?

 

Yes, but only because the rules enforced against him are overly draconian and irresponsible. 

How is that any different than scamming?

 

If he had just bought something off the SCM off a scammer, then no, he shouldn't have been banned since on the SCM you have to make a quick decision and looking into someone isn't always easily doable. HOWEVER, he knew who he was buying it from. He knew the risks of buying it, yet he went ahead anyway.

 

Again....I think things are going a bit too far here... Banning someone for buying an expensive item off a scammer isn't an outrageous policy. 

[λngelღмander]

From another point of view, I never even got one chance. Cranwell, had you been banned without warning, permanently, I would be on your side, but you did have a warning and are a much more experienced trader than I was when I made my mistakes. The only reason why you ever got a second chance was because of how rich and influential you are. The third chance was absurd. Honestly, though I'm liable to take the side of the damned 99% of the time, in your case, perhaps you deserve the ban. 

 

If I'd been given just ONE more chance, I would have steered clear of scammers forever. I never got even one.

You had three, and blew them all. So no. No unban for you.

[λngelღмander]

How is that any different than scamming?

 

If he had just bought something off the SCM off a scammer, then no, he shouldn't have been banned since on the SCM you have to make a quick decision and looking into someone isn't always easily doable. HOWEVER, he knew who he was buying it from. He knew the risks of buying it, yet he went ahead anyway.

 

Again....I think things are going a bit too far here... Banning someone for buying an expensive item off a scammer isn't an outrageous policy. 

Also, awesome, I realize you're trying to defend outpost and their cronies, but lets be honest: The outpost justice system is about as efficient as the salem witch trials. You barely ever get warned, and you're never able to be unbanned once permabanned.

 

 

If they didn't take so much time to respond to ban appeals, I would be fine with them banning people this often. The thing is, they're liable to respond to a report within one hour, and take two years to respond to an appeal. That is completely inefficient and needs to change. They are a private entity, which means that they hold no actual power over the people using their site other than site specific privileges. People are allowed to leave if they want.

 

Outpost enjoys a complete monopoly, a strangle hold over the tf2 trading website market. They are basically the number one. Bazaar, their closest rival, probably has a tenth of the traffic outpost has. The only reason outpost can get away with having such shitty management is because no other trading website is as well trafficked as theirs. 

 

As stated before, they have a draconian system which is liable to ban on little to no proof of wrongdoing, and your pleas of innocence are likely to go ignored.

 

 

 

TL;DR: Outpost sucks.

[Utsoob]

 

Outpost enjoys a complete monopoly, a strangle hold over the tf2 trading website market. They are basically the number one. Bazaar, their closest rival, probably has a tenth of the traffic outpost has. The only reason outpost can get away with having such shitty management is because no other trading website is as well trafficked as theirs. 

 

As stated before, they have a draconian system which is liable to ban on little to no proof of wrongdoing, and your pleas of innocence are likely to go ignored.

 

TL;DR: Outpost sucks.

Off topic, but I agree with this part so much.

[Spu~]

should have checked yourself before you rekt yourself ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Utsoob]

Calling it now, Helen comes in here and starts a storm. Either that or a lock happens.

 

Also #freecranwell

[Wub]

What is the point of banning you if you bought stolen items. Punishments are ment to learn from.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

What is the point of banning you if you bought stolen items. Punishments are ment to learn from.

Or teach a lesson to others.