Should I try to appeal the bans?

[The G What ™]

How is that any different than scamming?

 

If he had just bought something off the SCM off a scammer, then no, he shouldn't have been banned since on the SCM you have to make a quick decision and looking into someone isn't always easily doable. HOWEVER, he knew who he was buying it from. He knew the risks of buying it, yet he went ahead anyway.

 

Again....I think things are going a bit too far here... Banning someone for buying an expensive item off a scammer isn't an outrageous policy. 

 

 

Because it isn't scamming? How is running from a crab scamming? You don't end up with someone else's items. It's not a scam. It's the tf2 equivalent of making a bet with someone that you'll win a coin toss and then refusing to pay. Dick move? For sure, but to be perma-banned from every tf2 trading site for buying something from someone that did that one time? That is idiotic.

 

Again, the crabbing thing is moot, my main point is that Steamrep is so laughably terrible at their (self-appointed) job that I don't see why anyone takes them seriously. As mentioned before, appeals take months, or in some cases, years, and never get resolved. Accused are rarely, if ever, notified in order to defend themselves. How is that fair?

 

And the hat itself has one person in the history, meaning it is severely unlikely that hat was scammed; and much more likely the hat was unboxed by the accused himself. Sure, buying stolen items is illegal in the real world, but buying legitimately purchased items secondhand from someone that stole other items is not. That would be fascist and draconian, as I mentioned before. So why the fuck do we allow one understaffed site to make that decision for us? 

 

Cranwell did break the rules of the absurdly ineffectual Steamrep, and by proxy, Outpost. Under those rules, this ban is justified. But what I am saying is that I oppose this on the moral ground that this community shouldn't hold what Steamrep says to any standard whatsoever. It's the same thing I pointed out when Christley got banned and when Jon got stripped of his mod title. This community needs to do a better job of policing itself, and stop giving Steamrep any power in any capacity. 

[LaughingLollipop]

when someone knowingly admits to having bought something from an SR marked individual AFTER ALREADY BEING GIVEN A SECOND CHANCE, its just time to drop the hammer.

 

adieu.

[Rebirth]

What is the point of banning you if you bought stolen items. Punishments are ment to learn from.

 

That might work if he wasnt banned so much

[redpoemage]

he bought quite a few unusuals from SCM that way. knowingly

 

but 

 

1. i dun see anything wrong. someone will ALWAYS buy a hijacked/scammed unusual. why is it wrong you do it lol 

2. tf2 outpost didn't have anything against it (till today)

3. 10 buds for the burning (tossle ? was it) isn't THAT much of a profitable deal

 

so me goes with unban that mofo

 

1 is like saying "someone will always scam, why is it wrong if you do it lol"? The shotrsightedness of this argument is absurd...

 

2. Completely false. TF2Outpost has banned many users for knowingly trading with scammers.

 

3. The amount of profit is irrelevant.

[Heated Bread]

What is the point of banning you if you bought stolen items. Punishments are ment to learn from.

 

When it reaches the point of banning someone permanently, the purpose cannot be punishment.  The purpose is to keep them away from the other users who follow the rules, and also to serve as an example and a deterrent.

[AsaltoTemplario]

When it reaches the point of banning someone permanently, the purpose cannot be punishment.  The purpose is to keep them away from the other users who follow the rules, and also to serve as an example and a deterrent.

...but he's proven that he doesn't learn from warnings...

 

**wanted to quote wub's comment above, not this one. 

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

...but he's proven that he doesn't learn from warnings...

re-read breads comment. thats what he said/was alluding to.

[Gren]

G What made some good points. 

 

The way these bans are handled needs to be re-examined.  So the guy Cranwell bought from is SR marked.  But: 

 

1.  Why was he marked?  We don't know. 

2.  When was he marked? Again, we don't know. 

3.  Was the tossle scammed?  We don't know.  However, it only has the seller in the history, which at least opens the possibility that he may have unboxed the hat (not necessarily though). 

 

If you think the answers to the questions above are irrelevant, think about this hypothetical scenario: 

 

The guy was marked for a pulling a charge-back on $50.  The offense occurred 2 years ago.  Since then, he's been reduced to trading on trade servers. Recently, he decided that he's no longer interested in TF2, so he puts his prized (legitimately obtained) Tossle up on SCM.  

 

Under these circumstances, should buying the Tossle be a ban-able offense?  I think not.

 

The rules exist for a reason and that is to cripple "illegal" trading.  These same rules exist IRL.  But in real life, you don't get automatic life time bans from participating in commerce for committing a crime, regardless of its severity. 

 

I think there should also be a debate on whether it's even appropriate for OP or SR to dish out their own brand of justice.  Do these rules even do anything to discourage scammers, as much as they hurt the pool of available items in the economy and thus the community?   

[Auroz]

Nope. I think you're rich and popular enough to think about that and you know what to do. I was personally banned from Outpost only for insulting some lowballers, while other people are still unbanned with stolen unusual deals and weird trades like that. You should stop trying making more and more profit always, you're the type of people who makes the market crash (ex. keys rising - trying to sell for higher everytime/unusual invest - buying a fresh new unusual misc at bptf price then resell it for like 10 buds surfing on the misc hype)

I like your suggestions, sure you was helpful for the community (about price suggestions), but sometimes people needs to take a break.

[>Sneaks]

#freecranwell2012

[AsaltoTemplario]

re-read breads comment. thats what he said/was alluding to.

My bad. Wanted to quote wub's comment above*

[Piotr Nieroda]

yes, the hat you bought may have been from an alt, however it was not a hijacked hat. Added to provide you proof

[Draco Blaze]

Also, awesome, I realize you're trying to defend outpost and their cronies, but lets be honest: The outpost justice system is about as efficient as the salem witch trials. You barely ever get warned, and you're never able to be unbanned once permabanned.

 

I'm just going to ignore any sense of bias of that statement and retort as the original statement itself is heavily biased. Comparing Outpost to the Salem Witch Trials is both incorrect and idiotic. The Witch Trials were brought on by mass hysteria of the common man due to "supernatural" events concerning 2 young girls. The Outpost equivalent to this would be if we started filing mass reports against Sir Ploko (as he is the mod I hear the most complaints about even though he is just enforcing the rules) and then the other Outpost Mods/Admins decided, "we need to ban him." If you are arguing that Outpost is ruthless like the Trials, then there is some truth to that, but not much. Outpost is efficient with minor hiccups along the way. Outpost currently is what SteamRep probably strived to be in the beginning. There is no denying that SteamRep has gotten slower and less effective with age, but Outpost is doing just fine. The Outpost justice system may be broken at times, but no system ever created was truly flawless.

 

As for Sir Ploko and the problems people have with him and the new mods, they are just enforcing the rules. We as users grew accustomed to the lax nature of the moderator staff on Outpost due to the fact that they were understaffed. The situation itself is very similar to the British Policy of Salutary Neglect and the aftermath of ending Salutary Neglect.

 

Should you be given another chance? Honestly, I'd say yes on a technicality. The main factor has to be that SteamRep has nothing on why the user was banned and that the systems that put bans on him are no longer in motion. Without proper documentation it is hard not to look at the SteamRep mark as just a blanket statement. You knew full well the person was marked for something, but the fact that Outpost had no explicit rules governing the purchase through the SCM is where you get off on the technicality.

 

 

What this event should foster discussion about once everything is said and done is the possibility of Outpost becoming a newer and more active Steamrep. What is truly interesting about this, at least to me, is that the Outpost ban is what triggered all the other bans for you. The ban on backpack came after the outpost ban, as did the bazaar ban, yet nothing from Steamrep. It is no secret that SteamRep is understaffed and inefficient and the role they served had some merit and valor, but Outpost has become increasingly vigilant in these reports and bans.

[Zefrom]

I saw 2 of my friends buying 2 unusuals from SCM, I checked the history, two of them was from scammer and fenced respectively

I don't know why they never gotten banned while you did, maybe they never make a trade on outpost

 

#outpostsucks

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I saw 2 of my friends buying 2 unusuals from SCM, I checked the history, two of them was from scammer and fenced respectively

I don't know why they never gotten banned while you did, maybe they never make a trade on outpost

 

#outpostsucks

OP doesn't have proof that they knowingly bought from a scammer. 

[Khaos]

Seeing as how the "scammer" was banned from 2 trading communities/servers that have long since died, we won't know what he was banned for

 

False advertisement? Mic Spam?(Is that a thing,for SR to mark?) Or maybe just a spy crabber runner, we won't know

 

Has anyone even bothered adding the scammer to see what he actually did? Heck the scammer has like 5k hours, so its either a legit player or some idler

 

Schooled by jjjon V

[jjjon123]

To all those who are wondering what the original offense was:

 

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/27916-Scammer-Database-Scammer-Trusted-ID-finder/page62?p=610022&viewfull=1#post610022

 

He was likely a fence or atleast actively working with scammers.

[Kevin the Chicken God]

I saw 2 of my friends buying 2 unusuals from SCM, I checked the history, two of them was from scammer and fenced respectively

I don't know why they never gotten banned while you did, maybe they never make a trade on outpost

 

#outpostsucks

Cranwell's ban was different because he knew that the seller was marked on SR+banned on outpost beforehand, normally you dont get banned by buying SR marked hats on SCM

[cranwell96]

To all those who are wondering what the original offense was:

 

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/27916-Scammer-Database-Scammer-Trusted-ID-finder/page62?p=610022&viewfull=1#post610022

 

He was likely a fence or atleast actively working with scammers.

I just noticed something odd about that screenshot that accuses kenswoth/spike. He was offering the items, but he never actually traded them to the other scammer. He ended up trading the hats in the screenshot for the burning tossle http://i.imgur.com/OQwxwHi.jpg

 

Looks like the next step would be to ask http://steamcommunity.com/id/realsluggy/ what hat was scammed from them.

[scout608]

the real question is, why did you make a thread about this? shouldn't you just have privately discussed this with the mods of the respective sites privately rather than making a huge fuss over it

 

i guess while I'm here, i don't know too much about the topic but you got 2 chances, so i guess i shall have to say downboat for you :c

[v³ Unknown NO FEAR]

I don't know cranwell enough to like or hate him, and yes I've seen him plenty of times on outpost and bp.tf. So I'd like to call this an unbiased view of this ban?

It doesn't really matter how influential/helpful/rich/friendly/whatever, if you break the rules you break the rules. No one should get special treatment on this.

 

It's not as if he didn't know the rules, he's a smart enough trader to already know you're not supposed to buy items from scammers.

It's not like he didn't know the guy was a marked scammer, http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/statuses/user/62-cranwell96/?status_id=66747

And it's not like it's his first time either, according to everyone here he has already been warned twice about buying unusuals from scammers. 

 

 

I don't hate nor do I know you, cranwell but it's kind of ridiculous if you're still asking for an unban on outpost/backpack.tf after all this. 

 

It's not the end of the world either, you're just banned from Outpost and Bp.tf not from trading.

You should have expected yourself to not be welcomed to a website if you don't adhere to their rules. 

 

edit: don't hate me I just wanna say what I think about the situation.

[cranwell96]

I'm not sure why everyone think I've already had 3 chances, this is the 2nd ban.

[Shadowslayer]

I think cranwell should be unbanned because with more and more people getting scamed everyday, Its hard not to buy a scammed item. Im not saying you should but there a alot of new traders who dont know these rules.  Cranwell made a big mistake but Banning him would be throwing 600 buds in trash and that really hurts the community. The other thing is that If people like cranwell are banned, alot of high tier traders are starting to quit tf2 for example, Bob Cheez and Lomcharton. With no trustworthy traders you get a community full of scammers.

 

Im Sorry if i was very vague on the topic here.

[Kevin the Chicken God]

I think cranwell should be unbanned because with more and more people getting scamed everyday, Its hard not to buy a scammed item. Im not saying you should but there a alot of new traders who dont know these rules.  Cranwell made a big mistake but Banning him would be throwing 600 buds in trash and that really hurts the community. The other thing is that If people like cranwell are banned, alot of high tier traders are starting to quit tf2 for example, Bob Cheez and Lomcharton. With no trustworthy traders you get a community full of scammers.

what...

[Sasuke200]

Well, you are kind of showing people if you do get unbanned it is fine to do it because they as well think they will be unbanned if caught.

 

As some people have said, making your ban public and stuff and making it loud was not needed, It would have been better if you would have privately discussed it with the OP staff team, because now if you are unbanned some people will find it unfair and people who have been banned for trading scammed unusuals will as well see this as not fair.

 

So you by making this thread, you kind of damaged yourself because you dug your own hole on purpose and want people to go against a ban TF2OP served to you rather than dealing with it yourself.