MasterMinder Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 4 hours ago, FireballNitro said: It's very rare that PayPal sides with the person selling virtual goods in the instance of a chargeback. You have a good chance of winning regardless of what evidence either side gives. Virtual items are NOT protected under seller protection so if you paid via goods and services you're in a pretty good spot. However, if it was with a card, even if you win the case PayPal will file a case against your credit card company to retrieve the money. That's how I won one of my chargeback cases once. @Sero.This is true. Below a short explanation of how the dispute progress goes and the chance of success depending on how you sent the funds and your situation: You sent the funds as services/goods Chance of success: 99% Since it is about a service or good, the liability shifts to the seller, meaning once you file a dispute, the seller has to provide evidence that they have in fact delivered the services and/or goods, which in this case is impossible for him. You sent the funds as family/friends Chance of success: variable The chance of success heavily depends on where you file the dispute. File the dispute at your credit card company/bank and your chances are very high and since the credit card company almost in all cases sides with the card owner, you usually get your money back within a few days. File the dispute at PayPal (if even possible, might not be actually) and it may complicate things, take much longer and your chance of success is rather low. As we are technically not speaking of a sale of any service/good, there is no liability as you have already marked the other party as trusted. Either way, it is smart to file the dispute at your credit card company (assuming that's where the funds came from), so you can secure your money as soon as possible without much hassle. If your only way is to file a dispute at PayPal and you have sent the funds as family and friends, then it is smart to file the dispute (if possible) and give PayPal a call and explain your situation. You can contact me or DM/quote me here if you need any more information. -- For what it's worth, I have also banned this user on Bot.tf. Sorry for all the people that have lost so many items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stohpidarsesheet Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 ran with over $10,000, that's huge, but other than that, no big soup rice traders really need to learn how to protect themselves srsly tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTrade ™ Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, stohpidarsesheet said: traders really need to learn how to protect themselves srsly tho... Not that easy to predict that Merp would turn into a scammer. You talk like it was very obvious which it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayworks Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 ive known merp for a long time and never once did he show any indication of being a scammer. Really just goes to show how money/greed can change someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anime Tiddie Expert Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Rest in peace my Scorching BOA, I spoke to him last night about a deal for this Scorching TC as it is my dream hat, been working out a deal with him for the last few weeks but last night he turned desperate in his typing and wanting me to trade everything over so he can "try out different sets" with my Arcana Pile of scrap and it sparked red flags almost instantly. Proof that he did have the Scorching BOA and was brokering : Proof that I was the previous owner : https://gyazo.com/ce3d6c9f29eb2e4a91855c6b995f2853 Took me a long time to trade up to this hat and was a huge milestone for me, sad to see it go into the hands of a scammer and who was considered as a friend by many, I even spoke to him last night about the most recent Episode of My Hero Academia Season 3 so he clearly had a personality. Sorry about all of the losses, there was a vintage Max's head in there too listed for about the same as my BOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 7 hours ago, Carnage said: No, this is not how you make a report. Mods will not see trusts unless they are reported. @KillerPenWhale and anyone who was scammed. Make a user report via the button on the accused's backpack profile. You will need to include, - Screenshots of your chat with this user that includes your trade agreement. - Screenshots of your trade history from the time you gave them items to broker until now, to show that nothing was repaid. - A screenshot showing that the user has blocked you. All screenshots must be uncropped and unedited. The sooner this gets done, the sooner we can get them marked. ^Just quoting this again since we still haven't received a single report with the required evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Furley Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 hour ago, MasterMinder said: The chance of success heavily depends on where you file the dispute. File the dispute at your credit card company/bank and your chances are very high and since the credit card company almost in all cases sides with the card owner, you usually get your money back within a few days. File the dispute at PayPal (if even possible, might not be actually) and it may complicate things. This is really good advice. I never thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense, though I did manage to get 40 back from PayPal when someone ran with my keys. Though it did take forever. Sorry guys, I wanna slap these douchebags around. Just leave peoples stuff alone. Sure it's a game but that still makes you a theif. This guy wasn't some destitute soul he had a full bp, whata dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 I did think it was sus he started brokering right after he said he was cashing out. Didn't think he'd do it though, feels bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond jozu Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 2 hours ago, stohpidarsesheet said: ran with over $10,000, that's huge, but other than that, no big soup rice traders really need to learn how to protect themselves srsly tho... The way youre saying it is as if it was an obvious and easy thing.put yourself if the victims shoes.merp wasnt just someone.he was a very trusted,rich and well known trader.he even has impersonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTrade ™ Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Diamond jozu said: The way youre saying it is as if it was an obvious and easy thing.put yourself if the victims shoes.merp wasnt just someone.he was a very trusted,rich and well known trader.he even has impersonators Well-said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adolf Storms Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Never liked him from day 1. something was off. called this a year ago lol just another gov goof gone bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Hold on a second. How are so many people surprised by this? Are you guys really that bad at using your brains facts to determine if a person should be trusted? How long ago was is that he was banned from outpost for repeatedly trading with marked scammers? Close to a year ago? As far as warning flags go, "perma-banned from one of the larger trading websites for repeatedly trading with scammers" is about as big and red as you get. It showed that he was: 1) Willing to deal directly with thieves, and 2) Willing to disregard community rules (and risk punishment) in the pursuit of profit. And I'm sure he probably had some story about how repeatedly trading with the scammers was accidental, but if you believed it, you're a big dummy and there's no help for you. And to everyone saying, "I've known him for a long time / he never seemed like the scammer type / etc" ... Yeah, you can probably assume that most people who are smart enough and dedicated enough to plan and pull off a scam on this scale are smart enough to not blab about their intentions or actively act suspicious to Steam friends for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
🍀Swazzy🍀 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 hour ago, 3.50 said: Hold on a second. How are so many people surprised by this? Are you guys really that bad at using your brains facts to determine if a person should be trusted? How long ago was is that he was banned from outpost for repeatedly trading with marked scammers? Close to a year ago? As far as warning flags go, "perma-banned from one of the larger trading websites for repeatedly trading with scammers" is about as big and red as you get. It showed that he was: 1) Willing to deal directly with thieves, and 2) Willing to disregard community rules (and risk punishment) in the pursuit of profit. And I'm sure he probably had some story about how repeatedly trading with the scammers was accidental, but if you believed it, you're a big dummy and there's no help for you. And to everyone saying, "I've known him for a long time / he never seemed like the scammer type / etc" ... Yeah, you can probably assume that most people who are smart enough and dedicated enough to plan and pull off a scam on this scale are smart enough to not blab about their intentions or actively act suspicious to Steam friends for no reason. So by your guidelines, people should now panic over https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198011321852 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 minute ago, 🍀Swazzy🍀 said: So by your guidelines, people should now panic over https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198011321852 ? By my guidelines, people should gather facts and use common sense before trusting strangers with their toys. Is PiotreX even a broker? I don't know the details of their trading, but I don't see any obvious advertising of services beyond buying and selling. If they're not a broker, then your comparison doesn't even make sense. If they are a broker, then yes, they're OP banned for shady trades, and you should definitely take that information into account before trusting them with any of your items. I mean, unless you think that repeatedly trading with scammer alts isn't a red flag? At the very least it means they're careless, and probably means they value profit over behaving properly. And that's not exactly a character quality you want someone to have when you hand them your stuff. Seriously. Why would you trust someone who has already proven that they're willing to break rules and engage in morally ambiguous behavior despite knowing that they might be caught and punished, or at the very least has been too careless to avoid tripping over the rules and being banned from one of the major websites that allows them to do what they do? Careful and honest would seem like the very highest priorities on the list I'd want a broker to have, and a ban suggests that they aren't both, if indeed they are either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sero. Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Guys does anyone Still have contact with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayworks Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 44 minutes ago, Sero. said: Guys does anyone Still have contact with him nope pretty sure hes gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDGCaptainRussia Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 I can see how this went wrong, merp was one of those guys who was looked up on many and let down by many more just now. I wasn't one of those guys but I was on Vatican when I heard Sero's and Anime's stories of how much they lost. Maybe now's not the best time to say this but. (esp with the whole "trust no one thing") But this is kinda why Middlemen are a thing, there's a good number of high ranking community admins who can act as middlemen for big trades like these. As far as brokering is concerned, I think it's safe to say no one is gonna trust brokers for a long time... EDIT: To finish this off, I'm just gonna say: everyone who got scammed; I hope you kick his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, IDGCaptainRussia said: But this is kinda why Middlemen are a thing, there's a good number of high ranking community admins who can act as middlemen for big trades like these. As far as brokering is concerned, I think it's safe to say no one is gonna trust brokers for a long time... The availability of middlemen doesn't actually have any relevance to people being scammed by brokers, they offer completely different services that don't overlap. As far as people not trusting brokers? ...yeah. This community has bad judgement and doesn't learn quickly. This is not anywhere near the first time this has happened, nor is it anywhere near the last time it will happen. And everyone will be just as surprised the next time it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDGCaptainRussia Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Just now, 3.50 said: The availability of middlemen doesn't actually have any relevance to people being scammed by brokers, they offer completely different services that don't overlap. I meant for what Sero did, where he should have had a middleman hold Merp's items before he pays Merp . That way Merp couldn't run off scot-free. 2 minutes ago, 3.50 said: As far as people not trusting brokers? ...yeah. This community has bad judgement and doesn't learn quickly. This is not anywhere near the first time this has happened, nor is it anywhere near the last time it will happen. And everyone will be just as surprised the next time it happens. As far as I see it, if your asking for someone to broker chances are your not very good at trading. I can understand this from the perspective of someone who unboxes something worth a ton and knows next to nothing on how to cash it out. But still, this is something I'd consider taking far too much trust for people on the internet (as Uro put it), and there's only a small handful of people I can trust with my items. (And none of them are big traders) People being surprised only happens because they don't learn, learn to expect the worse to happen. Gotta take all factors into account before you close a deal of any kind, you took the risk, you suffered the loss; I have empathy for those who lost so much, I'm just saying we all need to be a little smarter in the future when we trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryG Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 16 hours ago, Diamond jozu said: The way youre saying it is as if it was an obvious and easy thing.put yourself if the victims shoes.merp wasnt just someone.he was a very trusted,rich and well known trader.he even has impersonators Merp's the last person I'd call "well-trusted", lmao, he was banned from Vatican for sharking and I had seen shark compare links of his well before that, this is just the next step that most scumbags take. Once scum, always scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond jozu Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 38 minutes ago, HarryG said: Merp's the last person I'd call "well-trusted", lmao, he was banned from Vatican for sharking and I had seen shark compare links of his well before that, this is just the next step that most scumbags take. Once scum, always scum. Well i didnt know that.oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprekt Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Knew that this or something similar was coming after he went on his sharking spree. Sad to see, I made my first trade ever on Steam with him iirc. Let's just hope that as many as possible of the victims gets some kind of justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unstopaBULLY Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 I've had limited interaction with merp, but I've heard he was a shark, and a shady guy among other things. I knew he was banned on outpost already, but wasn't he also on vatican or something of the sort? Of course it seems more obvious in hindsight, but even then, knowing what I know about merp I can't see why anybody would trust such a suspicious character to broker high value items. I'm still very sorry to hear about this scam though, and I hope merp faces some serious consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, iTrade ™ said: My point is that nobody could have predicted this. Maybe the precise chain of events or its timing couldn't have been predicted, but he had some pretty obvious red flags. A big reason people keep getting scammed by brokers is because the community at large doesn't learn anything when it happens, and continues to ignore all the red flags. Saying "nobody could have predicted this" is perpetuating the cycle by helping to convince people that there aren't warning signs, using caution is a waste of time, and there's nothing they can do to avoid being scammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryG Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 3 hours ago, 3.50 said: Maybe the precise chain of events or its timing couldn't have been predicted, but he had some pretty obvious red flags. A big reason people keep getting scammed by brokers is because the community at large doesn't learn anything when it happens, and continues to ignore all the red flags. Saying "nobody could have predicted this" is perpetuating the cycle by helping to convince people that there aren't warning signs, using caution is a waste of time, and there's nothing they can do to avoid being scammed. This. It blows my mind that literally anybody that's somewhat active in this community would say this was unpredictable unless they are A. Completely context-free when it comes to this topic or B. are defending the kind of people who pull these kind of scams off or want the cycle to continue by purposely spreading misinformation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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