Please Read

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

One great example is rape cases and the show American Most Wanted. 

Yes, and the person who got raped was guilty...thats why she went on social media. 

 

/sarcasm

[www.]

Helen this isn't a witch hunt, if you've seen what he's done for the benefit of the community you'd understand why he wrote a letter. He wrote it to the people who were stirring speculation in the status section. He only wanted to tell them that no, he isn't a scammer, and to stop the rumors that were about to pop all over the place about him scamming Alex and a bunch of other things, which are false. 

 

With that in mind, it's a little out of hand to retaliate in the way you did. This was not a witch hunt or a plead by any means. He didn't mention your name at all. Stop making up stories.

 

I hope you can do your job right and look at the evidence you have and make an honest objective decision, of course with the rest of the admins, because I along with many other traders here can vouch and say that he's easily one of the best trusted in the community, and banning people permanently isn't a game of fucking whack a mole.

[HelenAngel]

1. No because innocent people don't need to make threads like this. They get it sorted quickly because they're innocent. They don't make a big deal about it because they know they're innocent and they don't need to gather up mobs to go attack someone.

 

I have absolutely nothing to gain from this whatsoever. In fact, all I'm getting from it is more abuse and stress- which I absolutely don't need or want. It would be so easy for me to just have ignored it and not done anything about it. Maybe next time I should just take the easy way out and sit by while people get scammed, yeah?

 

2. I do make mistakes- I've never said I didn't. But automatically assuming I'm a bitch, I'm wrong, and getting the mob together to attack me is really unnecessary.  Especially since he only has a caution tag & not a scammer tag.

 

3. Why did he post the status? Why did he bother to make this huge post? Because that's what people who are guilty do in order to deflect the negativity off of them and to hurt the person who caught them. It happens every single time.  And there were LOADS of people who "vouched" for all of them. LOADS of people who said how fantastic they were but in the end, they were scamming people. This is why "vouches" aren't taken as evidence. Because it's not. It's personal opinion.

 

 

*Edit- just saw the other posts.  First off, rape victims rarely come forward and when they do they go to the authorities- they don't start witch hunts on social media channels. Also, comparing a caution tag to rape is absolutely and completely inappropriate and insensitive. I'm extremely offended that you would take rape so lightly when it is a devastating and heinous crime. Seriously.

 

I don't care if he goes on social media- I fully expect him to shout his story on every social media channel he has an account on and I will have heaps of insults, death threats & abuse about me everywhere by morning. I see people do this all the time and this is not the first or the last witch hunt I've been subjected to so I'm actually getting used to it by now.

 

I agree this is serious. It was serious when Del Piero did it. It was serious when Petey did it. The list goes on and on of people who did great things for the community but then also did very bad things to the community. 

 

As I was the one who investigated him, I will not be handling the appeal in order to preserve objectivity- and that was decided when I was asked to aid in the investigation. As much as you may hate me and think I am the worst person ever to walk this earth, please be aware that I've done my part and I am stepping away from this case. Now I will go back to my "retirement" from assisting the trading community as three years of abuse is enough for me.

[Grimes]

Helen this isn't a witch hunt, if you've seen what he's done for the benefit of the community you'd understand why he wrote a letter. He wrote it to the people who were stirring speculation in the status section. He only wanted to tell them that no, he isn't a scammer, and to stop the rumors that were about to pop all over the place about him scamming Alex and a bunch of other things, which are false. 

 

With that in mind, it's a little out of hand to retaliate in the way you did. This was not a witch hunt or a plead by any means. He didn't mention your name at all. Stop making up stories.

 

I hope you can do your job right and look at the evidence you have and make an honest objective decision, of course with the rest of the admins, because I along with many other traders here can vouch and say that he's easily one of the best trusted in the community, and banning people permanently isn't a game of fucking whack a mole.

 

this

[HyperToe™]

All I have to say is that there better be a post on the tf2 subreddit about what goes down on this thread.

 

GL Vince.

[Grimes]

1. No because innocent people don't need to make threads like this. They get it sorted quickly because they're innocent. They don't make a big deal about it because they know they're innocent and they don't need to gather up mobs to go attack someone.

 

I have absolutely nothing to gain from this whatsoever. In fact, all I'm getting from it is more abuse and stress- which I absolutely don't need or want. It would be so easy for me to just have ignored it and not done anything about it. Maybe next time I should just take the easy way out and sit by while people get scammed, yeah?

 

2. I do make mistakes- I've never said I didn't. But automatically assuming I'm a bitch, I'm wrong, and getting the mob together to attack me is really unnecessary.  Especially since he only has a caution tag & not a scammer tag.

 

3. Why did he post the status? Why did he bother to make this huge post? Because that's what people who are guilty do in order to deflect the negativity off of them and to hurt the person who caught them. It happens every single time.

 

He didn't post the status.. Just sayin'.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

1. No because innocent people don't need to make threads like this. They get it sorted quickly because they're innocent. They don't make a big deal about it because they know they're innocent and they don't need to gather up mobs to go attack someone.

 

I have absolutely nothing to gain from this whatsoever. In fact, all I'm getting from it is more abuse and stress- which I absolutely don't need or want. It would be so easy for me to just have ignored it and not done anything about it. Maybe next time I should just take the easy way out and sit by while people get scammed, yeah?

 

2. I do make mistakes- I've never said I didn't. But automatically assuming I'm a bitch, I'm wrong, and getting the mob together to attack me is really unnecessary.  Especially since he only has a caution tag & not a scammer tag.

 

3. Why did he post the status? Why did he bother to make this huge post? Because that's what people who are guilty do in order to deflect the negativity off of them and to hurt the person who caught them. It happens every single time.

Not really....Screenshots are easy to fake and as are trade logs. Not to mention most people don't screenshot every conversation they have with everyone just in case one of them later on gets pissed and makes a fake accusation as it has happened in the past. So, no, its not always easy to prove innocence. And lets not forget how well OP admins deal with situations. I.e. BSoD and the way he handled the case of a guy who bought an unusual off of a scammer--he asked a loaded question and then based the ban on the answer to the loaded question. Oh, and you're already sitting by letting people get scammed by not either handling or getting more staff to handle sr reports. 

 

He didn't post the status. Someone else did as they happened to see the ban on outpost. Again, facts. They're important. 

 

P.s. tone down the hostility. Don't expect people to not be hostile towards you when you're hostile in every post you make. 

[OverduePixels]

1. No because innocent people don't need to make threads like this. They get it sorted quickly because they're innocent. They don't make a big deal about it because they know they're innocent and they don't need to gather up mobs to go attack someone.

 

I have absolutely nothing to gain from this whatsoever. In fact, all I'm getting from it is more abuse and stress- which I absolutely don't need or want. It would be so easy for me to just have ignored it and not done anything about it. Maybe next time I should just take the easy way out and sit by while people get scammed, yeah?

 

2. I do make mistakes- I've never said I didn't. But automatically assuming I'm a bitch, I'm wrong, and getting the mob together to attack me is really unnecessary.  Especially since he only has a caution tag & not a scammer tag.

 

3. Why did he post the status? Why did he bother to make this huge post? Because that's what people who are guilty do in order to deflect the negativity off of them and to hurt the person who caught them. It happens every single time.

 

I am not going to take any sides because I don't know who is right and who is wrong with that said....

 

No, offense but you are basically saying people who are innocent should sit down and do nothing. Those who are innocent comes out public too, in fact most of the time innocent people go to social media and goes public. Vince posted the status because people already started speculating that he is a scammer and whatnot. This has happened to so many innocent people.

 

I can link you to a story related to this community where Steam themselves trade blocked an innocent person and he had to go public and let the community know. After going public, it created a bit of rage and shit then Steam did more research and found that he really is innocent. If you want, I can post the link here, so yeah...Innocent people need to go public too.

 

Vince need to let out his side and let his friends and community know what has happened to him and whatnot. If he didn't people would make up irrelevant stuff about him and all those unnecessary stuff. 

 

Everyone makes mistake. You wont' find a single human being that has never made any mistake in their life.

[Seminal Inhalation]

1. No because innocent people don't need to make threads like this. They get it sorted quickly because they're innocent. They don't make a big deal about it because they know they're innocent and they don't need to gather up mobs to go attack someone.

 

I have absolutely nothing to gain from this whatsoever. In fact, all I'm getting from it is more abuse and stress- which I absolutely don't need or want. It would be so easy for me to just have ignored it and not done anything about it. Maybe next time I should just take the easy way out and sit by while people get scammed, yeah?

 

2. I do make mistakes- I've never said I didn't. But automatically assuming I'm a bitch, I'm wrong, and getting the mob together to attack me is really unnecessary.  Especially since he only has a caution tag & not a scammer tag.

 

3. Why did he post the status? Why did he bother to make this huge post? Because that's what people who are guilty do in order to deflect the negativity off of them and to hurt the person who caught them. It happens every single time.  And there were LOADS of people who "vouched" for all of them. LOADS of people who said how fantastic they were but in the end, they were scamming people. This is why "vouches" aren't taken as evidence. Because it's not. It's personal opinion.

 

He wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it, everybody wanted to know why he got banned. One minute he was all fine, next minute he has a caution tag perma banned on outpost of the accusation of scamming. It shocked everybody to see someone like Vince get banned out of the blue like that.

 

Nobody is perfect, we all understand<3

 

Everybody had questions, and only Vince had (some) of the answers. Everybody was basing off of rumors and accusations and wanted to know what happened from the source. He isn't trying to get a mob out, or get people to vouch for him. He's just telling people what went up.

 

We aren't here to Vouch for Vince, we're simply concerned with what happened to him. We've all known him for awhile and he randomly gets a caution tag and a perma-ban. Not trying to be offensive, but. Everybody wanted answers, or a check-up with what happened. He has a right to tell people what happened, but up to a certain point yes.

[HelenAngel]

You guys are being hostile. I'm not being hostile, I'm defending myself.  If you didn't see, there were lots of people calling me a bitch in this thread.

 

"All I have to say is that there better be a post on the tf2 subreddit about what goes down on this thread."

Oh it will be. He or one of his friends will make absolutely sure that every single social media channel associated with TF2 will know about it- as they all do. It's par for the course. I wouldn't expect anything else.

 

There is a HUGE difference between calling out a method or practice that is potentially unfair or unjust and a person riling up everyone against someone else. Stating a case is one thing- stating that you are 100% innocent and all your friends attacking the person is quite another. There's a huge difference. People don't get called bitches in the first.

 

I am well aware of fake evidence. I don't know if you knew this, but I've been doing online fraud prevention for 7 years now.  So, yeah, got some experience under my belt. There's also a lot of methods that we have that we can't and won't share because of confidentiality. Not that it matters anyway because he's your friend and you'll take his side anyway regardless of any information or evidence presented. This isn't my first rodeo, so to speak. This happens nearly every time. It's cool, I get it, he's your friend, you'll stand by him, etc.

 

Also, I don't have ANY control over SR getting more staff. Never have, never will. I was always just the scam report girl just trying to do as much as I could. What I got out of it was having to change my phone number because a scammer started passing out my cellphone number and address, not to mention all the other negative stuff. But, neither here nor there. Nothing I say will matter anyway so I'm just going to go to bed.  This case is out of my hands anyway. 

 

Now back to burning me at the stake, already in progress.

[Yeow]

I find this post reeking of Vince trying to gather public opinion on his side, which someone innocent wouldn't need to do. Why isn't the first course of action to write an appeal, rather than create this thread in efforts to rally public opinion behind vince and against community admins doing their job? Many of the people in this thread seem so quick to discount admins all without having seen any of the evidence.

[Draco Blaze]

There's also two more really good reasons why we don't post a lot of evidence: 1. some of it comes from your friends who, for obvious reasons, want what they present to be confidential and 2. if we tell scammers how we get the evidence we have, they just get better at scamming because they know our methods. Perhaps none of you care one bit if there are thieves out there scamming people right and left, but a lot of people in the community do and would like to prevent it.

 

Well, that clears something up for me, so I thank you for that.

 

1. No because innocent people don't need to make threads like this. They get it sorted quickly because they're innocent. They don't make a big deal about it because they know they're innocent and they don't need to gather up mobs to go attack someone.

 

3. Why did he post the status? Why did he bother to make this huge post? Because that's what people who are guilty do in order to deflect the negativity off of them and to hurt the person who caught them. It happens every single time.

 

I mean no disrespect by anything I am about to say. You are already being defensive, so I did not want this to be interpreted the wrong way. 

 

A thread is the easiest way to alert us of his situation. He has gone to bed for the night, so while not the best option, a thread was his only real option to end speculation or put people he has trade with at ease for the time being. A status update would get pushed down to the point where no one would see it without looking for it and this also seems rather lengthy to put in a status update. He cannot sort it out quickly if he is asleep. This thread, like said before, was in response to a stats update by another user. 

 

The status can be found here: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/statuses/user/4759-the-real-ssj5/?status_id=35327

Speculation started immediately and I can only imagine how far it would have gone before everything gets sorted out.

 

And while this did become very hateful towards you, I see no malice in what Vince posted. The hate began from another user. 

 

On a side note, why a straight out ban on users under investigation? SteamRep uses a tag for pending reviews for users to proceed with caution, so why does Outpost not use the same method? If someone under review is found innocent, then all you have done is halted their trading and led them to possibly form malice towards Outpost, you, and your fellow Administrators.

[www.]

+1 for yeow and helen for clearly not reading the replies made on this post. 

im out

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

because he's your friend and you'll take his side anyway regardless of any information or evidence presented.

 

This isn't my first rodeo, so to speak. This happens nearly every time. It's cool, I get it, he's your friend, you'll stand by him, etc.

Says who? I'm friends with J-jon as well, yet I was (and still am) completely against him and sided 100% with his OP ban. 

 

+1 for yeow and helen for clearly not reading the replies made on this post. 

im out

Welcome to every thread involving (non bptf) mods anywhere. Mods either refuse to be treated the same way they treat others; or they just ignore any relevant (and actual factual) posts and simply respond to the ones that either say nothing or talk out against the mod. Because fuck trying to solve the 'problem'. 

 

mod: "fuck you". 
User: "well, fuck you too." 
mod: "banned for mod disrespect"

[Seminal Inhalation]

 

Welcome to every thread involving (non bptf) mods anywhere. Mods either refuse to be treated the same way they treat others; or they just ignore any relevant (and actual factual) posts and simply respond to the ones that either say nothing or talk out against the mod. Because fuck trying to solve the 'problem'. 

mod: "fuck you". 
User: "well, fuck you too." 
mod: "banned for mod disrespect"

Sounds like garry.

 

Although this is very true, mods are never really any help as the admins usually take care of the work. Mods just sit around and abuse their power most of the time.

[OverduePixels]

*Edit- just saw the other posts.  First off, rape victims rarely come forward and when they do they go to the authorities- they don't start witch hunts on social media channels. Also, comparing a caution tag to rape is absolutely and completely inappropriate and insensitive. I'm extremely offended that you would take rape so lightly when it is a devastating and heinous crime. Seriously.

 

I don't care if he goes on social media- I fully expect him to shout his story on every social media channel he has an account on and I will have heaps of insults, death threats & abuse about me everywhere by morning. I see people do this all the time and this is not the first or the last witch hunt I've been subjected to so I'm actually getting used to it by now.

 

I don't believe you have been to countries like India, Thailand and many other Asian and African countries. Going to authorities might work in U.S, I live in U.S and now I am in Bangladesh (Kinda a long vacation) and know the reality innocent people faces. Going to authorities hardly works in countries like India because the law is more or less broken. Innocent People in India seek social media and public's help. Without those two, many cases never get solved. You might go in a police station in U.S report a rape case and be at ease that they will go with the procedure and get the case solved because laws are more or less stable in U.S but not in India because lot of them goes unsolved and remains unsolved because "authorities" does not follow the procedure or drops the case or something in between happens. You will hear more rape cases in India. Why? Because some are falsely accused of raping or other rape victims never can get their case solved thus innocent people go to media and seek public's help. 

 

Trust me, I never take rape cases lightly. Those are one of the most heinous crime out in the world. I had to give that example because you are/was saying that "Innocent people don't go public or go social media"

 

EDIT: That country (India) is a great example why some people goes out to social media and public. Its not always the "Bad guys" as you say that those who goes  to media or public are mostly bad/guilty person.

 

I am not saying he is "innocent" as far as I know he maybe guilty indeed but I never tend to take sides on matters like this. Just stating out the facts you seem to be missing on "Innocent people never/should not  go public or media"

 

 

 

 

I find this post reeking of Vince trying to gather public opinion on his side, which someone innocent wouldn't need to do. Why isn't the first course of action to write an appeal, rather than create this thread in efforts to rally public opinion behind vince and against community admins doing their job? Many of the people in this thread seem so quick to discount admins all without having seen any of the evidence.

 

 

Because speculation and rumors. He have to let others know what has happened to him before appealing, also before the rumors and speculation goes out of hand. Its simple, not that hard to understand. 

[Grimes]

You guys are being hostile. I'm not being hostile, I'm defending myself.  If you didn't see, there were lots of people calling me a bitch in this thread.

 

"All I have to say is that there better be a post on the tf2 subreddit about what goes down on this thread."

Oh it will be. He or one of his friends will make absolutely sure that every single social media channel associated with TF2 will know about it- as they all do. It's par for the course. I wouldn't expect anything else.

 

There is a HUGE difference between calling out a method or practice that is potentially unfair or unjust and a person riling up everyone against someone else. Stating a case is one thing- stating that you are 100% innocent and all your friends attacking the person is quite another. There's a huge difference. People don't get called bitches in the first.

 

I am well aware of fake evidence. I don't know if you knew this, but I've been doing online fraud prevention for 7 years now.  So, yeah, got some experience under my belt. There's also a lot of methods that we have that we can't and won't share because of confidentiality. Not that it matters anyway because he's your friend and you'll take his side anyway regardless of any information or evidence presented. This isn't my first rodeo, so to speak. This happens nearly every time. It's cool, I get it, he's your friend, you'll stand by him, etc.

 

Also, I don't have ANY control over SR getting more staff. Never have, never will. I was always just the scam report girl just trying to do as much as I could. What I got out of it was having to change my phone number because a scammer started passing out my cellphone number and address, not to mention all the other negative stuff. But, neither here nor there. Nothing I say will matter anyway so I'm just going to go to bed.  This case is out of my hands anyway. 

 

Now back to burning me at the stake, already in progress.

 

You have to see it from our position. You have just permd a well-respected member of our community, who has spent god knows how many hours for the said community. You could at least provide some evidence.

[Seminal Inhalation]

 

You have to see it from our position. You have just permd a well-respected member of our community, who has spent god knows how many hours for the said community. You could at least provide some evidence.

It's like if one of your close friends or family members got thrown in jail. Wouldn't you want to know why?

[Yeow]

+1 for yeow and helen for clearly not reading the replies made on this post. 

im out

 

I have read the replies and all I see are people blindly siding with Vince simply because he's contributed a lot and people raising their pitchforks against Outpost. Just because you've contributed doesn't mean that you aren't doing something else on the side or that it means he couldn't have done anything wrong. Not to mention that If Vince hadn't of gone public about this, then he wouldn't need to prove to the community that he's innocent because the vast majority of the community would have no idea. Instead, there's now this huge drama filed post about it.

 

Welcome to every thread involving (non bptf) mods anywhere. Mods either refuse to be treated the same way they treat others; or they just ignore any relevant (and actual factual) posts and simply respond to the ones that either say nothing or talk out against the mod. Because fuck trying to solve the 'problem'. 

 

 

That's cute that you assume I'm an outpost mod simply because I disagree with everyone. I'm not a mod. Nothing Vince posted has any factual basis, and is merely some sob story about something that allegedly happened. He thinks that his "friend" watched some youtube videos and found out about scamming? Please, what a terrible story that sounds as if he made it up as he went along. I'm not saying Outpost or SR are 100% correct all of the time; they aren't. But I'm willing to bet they have way more concrete evidence than Vince does or they wouldn't be starting an investigation.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

That's cute that you assume I'm an outpost mod simply because I disagree with everyone. I'm not a mod. Nothing Vince posted has any factual basis, and is merely some sob story about something that allegedly happened. He thinks that his "friend" watched some youtube videos and found out about scamming? Please, what a terrible story that sounds as if he made it up as he went along. I'm not saying Outpost or SR are 100% correct all of the time; they aren't. But I'm willing to bet they have way more concrete evidence than Vince does or they wouldn't be starting an investigation.

When did I say you were an outpost mod? 

 

Vince never once said his friends watched videos about scamming, that was an assumption he made. 

[OverduePixels]

I have read the replies and all I see are people blindly siding with Vince simply because he's contributed a lot and people raising their pitchforks against Outpost. Just because you've contributed doesn't mean that you aren't doing something else on the side or that it means he couldn't have done anything wrong. Not to mention that If Vince hadn't of gone public about this, then he wouldn't need to prove to the community that he's innocent because the vast majority of the community would have no idea. Instead, there's now this huge drama filed post about it.

Just one question....Have you read my replies? Because I sure as hell not taking any sides.  Not sure where you have come with everyone taking sides with Vince. 

 

 

Again, for all I know he could be guilty as fuck. Thus, I am neutral. All of my replies involved facts, not sides and shit. I never take any side on matters like this, because nobody knows if the person is really "guilty" or just another "innocent" person facing charges. 

[d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

I think you handle this situation rather immature Helen, the flame in this thread is indeed immature and doesn't help the case. But why highlight it then? After you've pointed it out you sort of smile and joke about it - the flame is irrelevent in this case and shouldn't be focused on. So can we stay more on topic?

 

So essentially, anyone can be banned on TF2OP without knowing why they got banned?

And I believe Vince should be able to state his opinion and let people know what's going on - I had an trade ban issue for ~1month because scammer codes were traded too me, if I didn't talk with a bunch of people I wouldn't know what to do.

 

Not taking sides, because I respect Helen's work to the community and Vince has been trade banned before. So like I said before, not vouching his trading, but he is a good person.

[OverduePixels]

I think you handle this situation rather immature Helen, the flame in this thread is indeed immature and doesn't help the case. But why highlight it then? After you've pointed it out you sort of smile and joke about it - the flame is irrelevent in this case and shouldn't be focused on. So can we stay more on topic?

 

So essentially, anyone can be banned on TF2OP without knowing why they got banned?

And I believe Vince should be able to state his opinion and let people know what's going on - I had an trade ban issue for ~1month because scammer codes were traded too me, if I didn't talk with a bunch of people I wouldn't know what to do.

 

Not taking sides, because I respect Helen's work to the community and Vince has been trade banned before. So like I said before, not vouching his trading, but he is a good person.

Wanted to like but reached my quota for today. 

 

Anyways, on topic you have exactly captured my thoughts.

[Amen]

Just one question....Have you read my replies? Because I sure as hell not taking any sides.  Not sure where you have come with everyone taking sides with Vince. 

 

 

Again, for all I know he could be guilty as fuck. Thus, I am neutral. All of my replies involved facts, not sides and shit. I never take any side on matters like this, because nobody knows if the person is really "guilty" or just another "innocent" person facing charges. 

Vince knows if he's guilty or not lol. He's the only person who knows 100% at this moment. I love a good mystery case though.

 

I'm also assuming helen handled this situation like this because lets be honest, these threads usually start/end with it being an admin trashing thread.

 

I'd love you see all you guys in the same room and watch what happens

[WDZ-RR Poncho Sullivan]

So much unnecessary drama...

 

Helen, you did not have to go on the defensive if you did not come here and raise a huge stink about it posting here. We do have reason to be suspicious when you come here and spout off venom on this forum. Not once did he mention your name, not once did he say that he wanted people to start vouching for him. You cannot enforce a draconian decree saying that someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt if they post a status update, for how the hell else is he going to let trusted friends know what is going on?.

You were thinking of giving him the benefit of the doubt until you saw this post? And to make it worse, you are bragging about it taking longer for a SteamRep report to be processed? With a smiley face? You're just rubbing salt into the wounds now. You think it is diffusing the situation, but you are actually worsening it tenfold.

And for the record, and I want this whole community to tell me the honest truth, would someone write what Vince did if there was no doubt he was guilty? And he is also working to sort this out with SteamRep and TF2OP mods, willing to comply with them? The manner in which you came on to the message forums implies an axe to grind between him and you. 

A simple update of you stating that you were discussing this with Vince or that other Outpost moderators were reviewing his case would have been sufficient. What we got was a self-defense statement from you and pretty much you expressing your happiness that his SteamRep reports will take longer. That is a complete lack of professionalism.