Please Read

[♠Derpeh♤]

 

I find this post reeking of Vince trying to gather public opinion on his side, which someone innocent wouldn't need to do. Why isn't the first course of action to write an appeal, rather than create this thread in efforts to rally public opinion behind vince and against community admins doing their job? Many of the people in this thread seem so quick to discount admins all without having seen any of the evidence.

 

Just saying but many cases where outpost has accused someone of "scamming" find out months later that they had made a mistake.

 

Clearly you dont know vince, he is a valued contributor to the site and didnt even know he was banned until we asked prompting him to explain rather have half the community here speculating crazy. Many of us have traded with him in the past and he is a well known unusual trader. If he wanted to "start a pitch fork hunt" he obviously would have chosen reddit instead of a forum where pretty much mainly us regular users go to.

 

Though i dont want to pick sides without knowing the whole story i dont agree with helen not giving the benefit of the doubt and investigating properly simply because vince made a thread to explain to bp members why he was banned.

 

Clearly the intention wasnt to start a fight but rather to explain the situation. Or would you rather have a respected member stay quiet and let rumours go crazy and eventually reaching the garry incident?

[Yeow]

When did I say you were an outpost mod? 

 

Vince never once said his friends watched videos about scamming, that was an assumption he made. 

 

The way your post was worded with that quote made it seem as if I'm a mod somewhere.

 

Just one question....Have you read my replies? Because I sure as hell not taking any sides.  Not sure where you have come with everyone taking sides with Vince. 

 

 

Again, for all I know he could be guilty as fuck. Thus, I am neutral. All of my replies involved facts, not sides and shit. I never take any side on matters like this, because nobody knows if the person is really "guilty" or just another "innocent" person facing charges. 

 

While you state you're not taking sides, your posts are clearly very pro Vince. The entire first page is in support of him.

 

Just saying but many cases where outpost has accused someone of "scamming" find out months later that they had made a mistake.

 

Clearly you dont know vince, he is a valued contributor to the site and didnt even know he was banned until we asked prompting him to explain rather have half the community here speculating crazy. Many of us have traded with him in the past and he is a well known unusual trader. If he wanted to "start a pitch fork hunt" he obviously would have chosen reddit instead of a forum where pretty much mainly us regular users go to.

 

Though i dont want to pick sides without knowing the whole story i dont agree with helen not giving the benefit of the doubt and investigating properly simply because vince made a thread to explain to bp members why he was banned.

 

Clearly the intention wasnt to start a fight but rather to explain the situation. Or would you rather have a respected member stay quiet and let rumours go crazy and eventually reaching the garry incident?

 

Frankly, I don't care how much he's contributed anywhere. Just because you've contributed doesn't mean that you won't scam or do something else stupid. Just look at peteyM3. I don't really care if Vince talks or not, but what he's saying smells like BS to me. What good does explaining the situation the public? Absolutely nothing. All it did was create drama and it started the "pitch fork hunt" anyways. Dragging the public into your ban appeal is ridiculous and should be a private matter. He should be explaining it to the mods, not the public. And lol @ the Garry incident. You act as if that was a big deal. Reddit cried about it for about a day, and that was it. That's Reddit for you.

[OverduePixels]

While you state you're not taking sides, your posts are clearly very pro Vince. The entire first page is in support of him.

 

Please enlighten me how I am pro Vince choice. I would love to know why you think so. 

 

I only replied once on the first page.  How in the world I am on the entire first page?

 

I think you are referring to this:

"I don't know how else would Vince have let people like me and others fellow people here and the community know without posting this. "

 

Well, I said that because thats what I would have done as well.  Its what any known in a community person would do whether here or in real life. 

 

If you are referring to the likes, I wanted to like Helen's comment too but reached daily quota/limit for likes for today once I liked the first two comments. I pretty much like any comment that amuses me. Liking a comment doesn't necessary mean I am supporting the comment. I like comment that makes me laugh or amuses me.

 

With that said...I think you are pretty much blind seeing one sided person here. If I supported any answer, I would have answered other people's comment by now and state that I completely agree with them, as you have seen I have on d0's comment. 

 

----------------

On topic... I already said, for all I know Vince could be guilty as fuck. Don't know how you still see I am supporting him when I am saying he could be guilty. How is calling someone guilty supporting that person/thing in any shape or form?   You also replied to that comment of mine. As I have said, you are blind seeing one sided people here.You don't make sense brah. 

 

Also, Vince need to share his side of the story too, as have many people have done here before. He needs to inform others before made up rumors goes around. I would have done the same thing if this has happened to me. Its a common sense thing to do, really.   

[Blatch]

At least this is being more civil then when Christley got banned. That one was 100% anarchy and chaos until it was closed. Hey, Helen and company: is there any reason why his appeal hasn't been dealt with yet?

 

Oh, and I'm also wondering how his 13 key offer on my Orbiting Planets Mongolian could play into this. It certainly looked legit from when I checked, though he seemed to use it as a cover for a snarky comment.

[polar]

A few things I would like to address here. First, Vince has been a part of this community for a long time. He has been accused of being a scammer. Almost everyone here knows him. I don’t hold it against him for wanting to clear his name and to explain the situation to this community. I could completely understand this sentiment about him wailing in public if he also brought this up to other communities, but as far as I know, he has kept this “in house.†I would hope this thread alone does not affect how the outpost / SR admins handle his case.

 

As for the ban itself, please know that outpost admins don’t take bans like this lightly. Most of you are so grossly misinformed about outpost’s “trigger happy†admins / mods. This ban has been 2 months in the works with a thorough initial investigation. I am not saying he is guilty or not. What I do want to make clear is that YOU should not make hasty comments about whether he should or should not be banned without any information about the situation. If I remember correctly, outpost gives its admins / mods the ability to look at what IPs were logged at what times as well as a friends list history (I could be mistaken). So if what Vince is saying is true, he should be able to work this out with the admins involved. Until that time, it would be inappropriate for us to make any further comment / assessment about this.

 

Please let all the parties directly involved in the situation work this out. I know Vince has spent a lot of time in this community, but Helen has spent a much longer time working to make the TF2 community a better place. Please let this story sort itself out before jumping to any conclusions. Any further baseless comments / accusations directed at the outpost admins / mods or that community will be hidden and given a warning.
 

[Ward - MvM Anyone?]

For fuck sake again?

[HANFANNN]

A few things I would like to address here. First, Vince has been a part of this community for a long time. He has been accused of being a scammer. Almost everyone here knows him. I don’t hold it against him for wanting to clear his name and to explain the situation to this community. I could completely understand this sentiment about him wailing in public if he also brought this up to other communities, but as far as I know, he has kept this “in house.†I would hope this thread alone does not affect how the outpost / SR admins handle his case.

 

As for the ban itself, please know that outpost admins don’t take bans like this lightly. Most of you are so grossly misinformed about outpost’s “trigger happy†admins / mods. This ban has been 2 months in the works with a thorough initial investigation. I am not saying he is guilty or not. What I do want to make clear is that YOU should not make hasty comments about whether he should or should not be banned without any information about the situation. If I remember correctly, outpost gives its admins / mods the ability to look at what IPs were logged at what times as well as a friends list history (I could be mistaken). So if what Vince is saying is true, he should be able to work this out with the admins involved. Until that time, it would be inappropriate for us to make any further comment / assessment about this.

 

Please let all the parties directly involved in the situation work this out. I know Vince has spent a lot of time in this community, but Helen has spent a much longer time working to make the TF2 community a better place. Please let this story sort itself out before jumping to any conclusions. Any further baseless comments / accusations directed at the outpost admins / mods or that community will be hidden and given a warning.

 

 

You know what can solve this? 

 

Transparency to an extent.

 

It wasn't until the second last post of a 3 page thread that we actually found out about the background of the case. And it was just a simple detail, about how the investigation has started since 2 months ago. 

[WDZ-RR Poncho Sullivan]

A few things I would like to address here. First, Vince has been a part of this community for a long time. He has been accused of being a scammer. Almost everyone here knows him. I don’t hold it against him for wanting to clear his name and to explain the situation to this community. I could completely understand this sentiment about him wailing in public if he also brought this up to other communities, but as far as I know, he has kept this “in house.†I would hope this thread alone does not affect how the outpost / SR admins handle his case.

 

As for the ban itself, please know that outpost admins don’t take bans like this lightly. Most of you are so grossly misinformed about outpost’s “trigger happy†admins / mods. This ban has been 2 months in the works with a thorough initial investigation. I am not saying he is guilty or not. What I do want to make clear is that YOU should not make hasty comments about whether he should or should not be banned without any information about the situation. If I remember correctly, outpost gives its admins / mods the ability to look at what IPs were logged at what times as well as a friends list history (I could be mistaken). So if what Vince is saying is true, he should be able to work this out with the admins involved. Until that time, it would be inappropriate for us to make any further comment / assessment about this.

 

Please let all the parties directly involved in the situation work this out. I know Vince has spent a lot of time in this community, but Helen has spent a much longer time working to make the TF2 community a better place. Please let this story sort itself out before jumping to any conclusions. Any further baseless comments / accusations directed at the outpost admins / mods or that community will be hidden and given a warning.

 

 

With all due respect, polar bear, HelenAngel's posts here pretty much added kerosene to an open fire and made the situation worse. What she should have done was to post a status stating that the Outpost mods were reviewing the case, and be as discreet about it as possible. That would have shown professionalism and respect for her input. What we got instead was a statement of being on the defensive right off the bat and her jumping to the conclusion that it's a witch hunt against her. What was to be a regular post about Vince informing that he was working to get the situation resolved quickly turned south when HelenAngel put her two cents in.

[www.]

removed

[polar]

With all due respect, polar bear, HelenAngel's posts here pretty much added kerosene to an open fire and made the situation worse. What she should have done was to post a status stating that the Outpost mods were reviewing the case, and be as discreet about it as possible. That would have shown professionalism and respect for her input. What we got instead was a statement of being on the defensive right off the bat and her jumping to the conclusion that it's a witch hunt against her. What was to be a regular post about Vince informing that he was working to get the situation resolved quickly turned south when HelenAngel put her two cents in.

 

The mods hid the posts and warned the users with directed attacks at Helen. I can see how misleading this thread can be as it appears to users now. I suppose the right thing would be to hide Helen's post as it is out of context now and makes her look like the bad one here. But... there is some content in that post, which is why it hasn't been hidden.

[Santa Heavy]

I'm not getting involved here. I hate these types of matters here the most. Even worse than kids who post threads that are uninformed. Almost every few months there's always an incident with the members of backpack.tf. It's getting really irritating to look at. The mods of backpack should be the first involved about the ban if it pertains to a figure here who has made a significant impact. The immature finger pointing and name calling give backpack.tf a bad name.

 

Step up guys.

 

Typing on mobile is like pulling teeth so bear with my horrible structure.

[F CHARLIE]

The mods hid the posts and warned the users with directed attacks at Helen. I can see how misleading this thread can be as it appears to users now. I suppose the right thing would be to hide Helen's post as it is out of context now and makes her look like the bad one here. But... there is some content in that post, which is why it hasn't been hidden.

 

For those who don't know, this is true. I remember seeing the "bitch" post before they were removed.

 

What Vince has stated here. An account he owns/owned was involved in scamming. Regardless of the background that alone would get you banned on outpost. All of you have to understand that the rules that outpost has makes trading better. If scamming, sharking and phishing etc, are allowed than players will become frustrated and stop trading there. Many already distrust every trader there is. Many traders, on the other hand, believe they have the right to be able to do what ever they want to, unchecked. This is why she gets death threats and why she is so defensive. There are a lot of assholes on outpost. If they are assholes in their trade post then how do you think they are to her, or the others, in private. In truth we need outpost regulated this well and its a private institution that can make their own rules. We don't have rights there.

 

As far as Vince is concerned. He did not make this post to be a rant against outpost admins. Others did. As he has already stated, hid account (this other account) was used in scamming. If he can't prove that someone else stole the account from him than that's all there is to it. He shouldnt have allowed that to happen. We all know you have to keep control of your accounts. We even yell at people that allow phisher to take thier account from them. Vince is guilty of that in the least.

[Ward - MvM Anyone?]

What I find funny is that the same people who called helen a bitch are probably the same people who would beg her to unban them if they were banned from outpost. Heu.

[F CHARLIE]

I'm not getting involved here. I hate these types of matters here the most. Even worse than kids who post threads that are uninformed. Almost every few months there's always an incident with the members of backpack.tf. It's getting really irritating to look at. The mods of backpack should be the first involved about the ban if it pertains to a figure here who has made a significant impact. The immature finger pointing and name calling give backpack.tf a bad name.

Step up guys.

Typing on mobile is like pulling teeth so bear with my horrible structure.

 

Its not a big thing really. To be expected. 10's of thousands of members in bp. Hundreds posting here. All are profiteers. Human nature says this may hapoen from time to time.

[Teeird]

Enjoy your 6+ month wait time to get scam reports processed.

This is the only thing that's bothering me in this thread.

 

Why would you, a (former or whatever) SR head admit to being slow working? That's literally admitting to what people have accused SR of in the past. The way you put it is even worse; as if you're smearing it in Vince's face because of how slow you are. Like what were you thinking!?

 

There's no doubt you all have heard me rant about SR's incompetence in the past, but lately I've been trying to be understanding and courteous towards the organization. But shit like this makes me think twice about supporting SR. Let me make something blatant: SR needs the community, but the community doesn't need SR.

 

Carry on like usual.

[Professional Map Painter]

This is the only thing that's bothering me in this thread.

 

Why would you, a (former or whatever) SR head admit to being slow working? That's literally admitting to what people have accused SR of in the past. The way you put it is even worse; as if you're smearing it in Vince's face because of how slow you are. Like what were you thinking!?

 

There's no doubt you all have heard me rant about SR's incompetence in the past, but lately I've been trying to be understanding and courteous towards the organization. But shit like this makes me think twice about supporting SR. Let me make something blatant: SR needs the community, but the community doesn't need SR.

 

Carry on like usual.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[♠Derpeh♤]

Enjoy your 6+ month wait time to get scam reports processed.

There's no doubt you all have heard me rant about SR's incompetence in the past, but lately I've been trying to be understanding and courteous towards the organization. But shit like this makes me think twice about supporting SR. Let me make something blatant: SR needs the community, but the community doesn't need SR.

I gave up on steamrep long ago when their admins know they are slow and incompetent, refuse place any significant effort to improve their back log yet still insist upon users that they are the "police".

 

There was a glimmer of hope when steamrep seemed make a small effort in dealing with their hilarious backlog but that seems to have been forgotten entirely. The only purpose steamrep serves at the moment is the false hope that you "can" get someone banned and that they "protect you".

[F CHARLIE]

I gave up on steamrep long ago when their admins know they are slow and incompetent, refuse place any significant effort to improve their back log yet still insist upon users that they are the "police". There was a glimmer of hope when steamrep seemed make a small effort in dealing with their hilarious backlog but that seems to have been forgotten entirely. The only purpose steamrep serves at the moment is the false hope that you "can" get someone banned and that they "protect you".

 

I thought steam rep was already dead.

 

Listen, valve can make all this stuff go away by allowing everything on the scm and charge almost nothing in tax.

[Chief D]

Is it so damn hard to keep the thread on topic? Stop blaming Outpost or SR here. This is a discussion about Vince and his caution tag. If you don't have any important thing to say about it, then don't say anything at all and go bitch at the great below.

 

Next time I have to post here to warn about this, I'll just directly lock it.

[F CHARLIE]

Is it so damn hard to keep the thread on topic? Stop blaming Outpost or SR here. This is a discussion about Vince and his caution tag. If you don't have any important thing to say about it, then don't say anything at all and go bitch at the great below.

 

Next time I have to post here to warn about this, I'll just directly lock it.

Agreed. It would be nice to hear from Vince btw.

[WDZ-RR Poncho Sullivan]

 

The mods hid the posts and warned the users with directed attacks at Helen. I can see how misleading this thread can be as it appears to users now. I suppose the right thing would be to hide Helen's post as it is out of context now and makes her look like the bad one here. But... there is some content in that post, which is why it hasn't been hidden.

 

Thing is, I saw those exact same posts that were up there bad mouthing HelenAngel and being derogatory towards her. With that being said, the way that she went on the defensive immediately and the way that she hinted that this thread would somehow be used as evidence towards the inquiry that Vince is facing is unpardonable to say in the least. I have said it twice before and I will say it once more: What she should have done was to be discreet, and instead of handling the name-calling and the situation with professionalism, asking the community to hold judgement until the entire event had been resolved, her input on the situation escalated the entire thing.

There is a way to do things and a way not to do things, and what HelenAngel said was not the correct way to handle it. As a moderator on Outpost and on SteamRep, are you going to experience the name calling and bad mouthing of your decisions? Undoubtedly so. With that being said, there is a point where you cannot let those comments made by people you don't know over the internet get under your skin, and the behavior she has demonstrated on this thread so far does not show the maturity that a moderator should have.

While it is not excusable for some of the members to spout off sexism towards an Outpost moderator, equally inexcusable is the behavior that was made by the aforementioned moderator on this thread. Behavior like this further complicates issues and adds even more uncertainty to TF2 Outpost and SteamRep, both of which  HelenAngel is an admin for. The fact that she made a smiley face when she commented about Vince's pending reports being delayed, when SteamRep has been heavily criticized lately for letting myriads of reports pile up and processing very few of those aforementioned reports, makes her responses seem that they were made out of spite.

 

In layman's terms, she should know better.

[Geel]

Helen, I like you, but you're wrong.

 

Innocent people who have been wronged have every right to "scream from the rooftops." It's the best way to get anything done. The reason he's "screaming from the rooftops" is because he believes he's innocent and yet he still is being accused. It obviously has not gone away quickly and easily, as you say it would if he were innocent.

 

The courts don't operate under the thought of "If you defend your case in court, you must be guilty. Only someone who's guilty would need a defense."

 

I'm not saying Vince is innocent or guilty. All I'm saying is you need to rethink what you said.

[Vince]

To Helen:

I am sorry that you have looked at this thread the wrong way, this was meant so that I could tell people who know me what has been going on, instead of people making crazy accusations about me. I was not trying to get the community to flare up on you, in no way was I trying to accuse you or anyone else of being butt headed, I understand you have a job to you and I'm willing to help you out. From what I've heard from other people, its mainly about my trading etiquette and how I go about stuff, which I'm willing to change. I'll be in contact with you later this weekend, just have some real life commitments today.

 

Will a moderator please lock this thread.

thanks.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

Yea and before this closes I want to make an apology to Helen for being so mean to her, I was just joking around and I didn't want to offend you or get your feelings hurt ;C

[WDZ-RR Poncho Sullivan]

Before this thread closes, I would like to implore people using this site to be more aware of the content that is published on these threads if the same scenario happens again.