polar Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Yeah. This has already been talked about a ton, and I'm sure there are previous discussions in this section (that I'm not finding at the moment). Regardless, as someone who has priced >200 unusuals for this website, I'm no longer motivated to price unusuals when they keep changing every 2 weeks with currency changes. All unusuals >5 buds are off right now (EDIT: 90% of ALL UNUSUALS are off right now). And there is no point pricing them cause they will be off in 2 weeks again. This is utterly ridiculous. (1) Unusuals > 1 buds should have fixed price in buds (2) Unusuals <1 buds should have fixed price in keys People pay in buds and keys, not USD, for the most part. Prices should be in buds and keys. Remove this, move this, do whatever. This needs to be said again, now more than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karam Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 excuse me, i am not the best guy who knows about unusuals, so i have a question, when an unusual change its price alone, it change in terms of USD ? Like when buds are rising, I think unusuals get changed alone with that, or am i mistaken ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 excuse me, i am not the best guy who knows about unusuals, so i have a question, when an unusual change its price alone, it change in terms of USD ? Like when buds are rising, I think unusuals get changed alone with that, or am i mistaken ? Yup, unusuals are priced in USD. So when buds and keys change, so do the unusuals. The key here being that both buds and keys are changing causing unusual values to drop dramatically. If you look at the unusual trades themselves, though, they are traded for roughly the same amount in buds as they were before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Yeah. This has already been talked about a ton, and I'm sure there are previous discussions in this section (that I'm not finding at the moment). Regardless, as someone who has priced >200 unusuals for this website, I'm no longer motivated to price unusuals when they keep changing every 2 weeks with currency changes. All unusuals >5 buds are off right now. And there is no point pricing them cause they will be off in 2 weeks again. This is utterly ridiculous. (1) Unusuals > 1 buds should have fixed price in buds (2) Unusuals <1 buds should have fixed price in keys People pay in buds and keys, not USD, for the most part. Prices should be in buds and keys. Remove this, move this, do whatever. This needs to be said again, now more than ever. I know how you feel. Same thing made me lazy suggesting. And guess what, I made the same suggestion for pricing unusals in buds. But as you see buds tend to crash once a year so my suggestion would be to give buds their own $ value. We can change that if the real $ value of buds changes but that would not be with every key suggestion. We could use that bud $ value only as background price for unusuals though, and keep the buds in key price of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 But as you see buds tend to crash once a year The crash is temporary. Do we need to completely change an entire system just for 1 month? Also: (1) Unusuals are still mostly traded in buds and not cash, so leaving it in USD but changing the price of buds doesn't seem to be the best solution to me. (2) Fixing the price in buds should be easier than deciding, objectively, what the price of buds should be and having the shitstorm of having to suggest new prices of buds in dollars. As if having all these suggestions in keys wasn't enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 The crash is temporary. Do we need to completely change an entire system just for 1 month? Also: (1) Unusuals are still mostly traded in buds and not cash, so leaving it in USD but changing the price of buds doesn't seem to be the best solution to me. (2) Fixing the price in buds should be easier than deciding, objectively, what the price of buds should be and having the shitstorm of having to suggest new prices of buds in dollars. As if having all these suggestions in keys wasn't enough... Well Brad was always against it. That's why I said maybe just in the background as a basic for unusual prices. We could set that to what finance says or something reasonable like 37$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Cruise NUB Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 yes please, as a high tier unusual suggester it's very annoying that the price changes every 3 days,by several buds because people keep spamming bud suggestions USD is sometimes used but not nearly as much as buds and keys upvote, burning tc is 100 buds..... come on it was 115 and last sale was 115. some people say that buds now aren't the buds they were 1 month ago.. buds were about 27 at that time, when they will go back to 27 the price would be 90~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/2/864956554753352665/ Nostalgia. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/2/864956554753352665/ Nostalgia. :3 "Maybe we should just list unusuals in their USD value and let people figure out what kind of conversion they wish to use." - does he even want people to use the website for unusuals? that would be a huge pain in the ass for people looking to pricecheck their unusuals. And buds are relatively stable. They just fall for short periods of time (1 month a year and during halloween and christmas). No need to change things dramatically just for those time periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duscoda Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Yup. Its annoying as hell to put the work in to accurately price something and have a 1 key change completely ruin it. That Scorching Heavy Duty Rag is now 2.6-3 despite it originally being priced at 3-3.5, and my Cloudy Drill price is now below what the best offers were worth. It really makes you want to say to hell with it and just work on hats and weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 So this is my rational: The purpose of the unusual guide is to provide people with knowledge of the price of unusual when they price. As such, Backpack.tf should strive to serve that end. We have to ask these question: a) What makes the sight useful? b ) Is the current structuring a good fit for being useful? c) Does making a change impact other aspects of the site in hurtful ways? a: i This site is good for checking the aproximate value of unsusuals. For some people that is measured in buds, for some in keys, for some in USD. I cant tell you in what proportions. Though my suspicion is that Polar Bear is correct Buds most likely rule the day. ii. This site is good for looking at progression of backpack value and how trades over time change that. It measures it in USD, Buds, and Refined. I personally use buds and USD as the most common evaluator of these points (backpack graph and profile value). It's frustrating when currency changes impact these readings because they become less true. How you fix it is a good question. b: Is the current structure useful, I would say yes. You can figure out the relative value of things through buds, through keys, or through USD. Although there is a lack of self evidence how these systems intertwine (although those dedicated users undoubtedly understand the innerworkings). Does it have good fit for being useful, I would say maybe not. We want stability of prices for hats,eg if a hat costs 22 buds, or x USD, we want that to be consistent. Key prices as lower currency seem to fluctuate, and there tie to sub-currency is a huge issue. How do you deal with that....I think either track USD price of buds, and correlate that to USD price of unsuals...or do the reverse. Set price in buds, and extrapolate using what the buds are selling for into USD. Either way you'll get I think better prices. c: How would this change impact other subsystems of backpack.tf. We want a unified system of pricing and suggestions, both for simplicity's sake, and for more people to be able to intelligently participate in the community. Does changing the system have a negative impact on this...it very well may. This seems like an important counterpoint to consider. On the other side of things, not everyone realizes that these prices are USD fixed, and are being back converted into buds. So maybe this is already a concern. I know I havent considered all of the possible impacts of this kind of change, but lets push this conversation forward in an intelligent and constructive manner. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christley </3 Peelz Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 yes yes yes and yes. some of my unusuals have lost a bud in value. yes they do, because most people offer from bp.tf prices, and when buds are low and i get offers of 4 buds. then buds rise in keyprices and the offers will go down as prices rises, and then the offers on the unusuals will get lower. this hurts my business since i dont deal in paypal or something like that. most people offer in buds. not usd. what could be done is the suggestion is based in usd. so we can press a button to make the suggestion handle it in buds or usd depending on what the offers are proving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christley </3 Peelz Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51a7faec4bd7b8504c000006 here is a great example of why we need the pricing in buds. in just 11 days, that unusual has lost 3½ buds in value. its 1:1 and it sold for 41 and 11 days later its 37.6 buds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duscoda Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 It would also help stop the constant need to reset 12 key unusuals back to 12 keys every time a currency changes price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Yea brad I have vast experience in trading and TF2, and frankly this just isn't working. I mean prices don't change every week or 2 do they? By multiple buds too? They don't ill tell you that. I mean, there are plenty of good suggestions as to how to fix it, and I've been told you have something in the works at the moment , really just adding my opinion in here to strengthen the argument and hopefully to bring back a bunch of the people who avoid the site because of this. The site has great potential I really hope it can be used to the fullest, but this is holding it back. Anyway just threw in my 2 cents hope you listened, peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokedem Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Burning TC is down 15 buds now. ._. Can this happen soon? People are claiming my unusuals to be "way overpriced" when I've been offered higher than backpack.tf several times, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERASER BY Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 1. I doubt why the price should be estimated precisely in $ not in the euro is not in Russian rubles, not in Chinese yuan or in Mongolian tugrik (although I personally more comfortable that it was in the $, not even in my local currency). In it I see some inconvenience and discomfort For most communities, yes, I agree USD - WORLD RECOGNITION currency but many use their national currency. Example: I want to know the weather and I'm not going to look the air temperature at the site where it is listed in Fahrenheit , I understand the temperature in degrees Celsius. Or let's say the price of petrol: I do not understand the price of $ 12 per gallon, but it's clear to me when the price $ 1.2 per liter of fuel. Why tie the value of items of TF 2 to not clear for all the values ​​($, Euro) and making it a higher priority over the ref-key-bud- more understandable absolutely to all traders?I do not mind against price of $ but I am against the fact that $ has a higher priority than : refs-keys-buds - is a universal currency for trading items TF 2 .I think that only 10% of the trades for $, $ price priority - ignores most traders TF 22. Me have raises doubts about the accuracy of price information on the key: price on the website-$ 1.87 for the key , at the Outpost $ 1.7-1.8 for the key, the store stim $ 2.5 - for the key , market Steam 2.2-2.3 $ for the key , in the Russian market TF2 1.27 $ -1.43 $ for the key (40-45 rubles per-key), I bought a week ago at $ 1.26 per key. The same story cost-refs-buds. Which price is more accurate? Why the site says that the key is $ 1.87 - for me it's not right information (I can easily buy for $ 1.27 for key). I would not interesting if it were not for the change in the value of the key is not drastically affected by the value of items TF2 in the refs -keys-bud.Any trader would be glad to have the exact prices in refs-keys-buds , than not the correct price in $. I do not mind the prices in $ I'm against that for any slight change in the the cost of a key or ref changing the price of all unusual hats - the result we have on the site is not the exact prices for unusual hats in keys-buds. For the supporters the prices in $ and assessment of their backpacks in $: read carefully http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ - you are not a full owner your backpack (you can exchange even sell but until such time as long as it is profitable Valve) all rights are belong to Valve, in that reason to say that you have some items that cost X $ - it seems to me naive to more than faithfully estimate the value in refs-keys-buds , but not in $ or in other currency .TF2 items- is virtual items, devoid of many properties of ordinary items , and they need to be more appreciated in the first place in the virtual currency (ref-keys-buds) and then in real money ($), and there should be a priority the price in $ above price in the refs-keys-buds .3. The most important -incorrect prices unusual hats on the site . If we take a look here http://backpack.tf/unusuals I can safely say that prices 90% are not accurate in keys -buds . A current example http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51a89258ba2536636c00000d#51a8a4364bd7b82d75000006_row -similar examples I could cite hundreds, I see them every day when I look at the prices site . Thing that the PRIORITY of the prices in $ over prices in the keys leads to a distortion of the accuracy of of prices in refs- keys - buds , 90% of traders use price in refs- keys-buds , but not use price in $ , the price in refs- keys-buds for unusual hats is not true for 90% because of the constant changes refs-key-buds to the cost of $.I have a question : why do suggestion of price , if after a short time price is not true , to due to the site policy (priority price of $ over the price in the keys) ? The site must give truthful information on the cost of unusual hats in the first place in buds and keys .If the information is not true why save this a priority $ over keys -buds ? I do not like when my suggestions even before closing changed due changes in the cost of keys, refs, $, and the price is not faithful entered into the database.This important issue has been raised here http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/2/864956554753352665/ but did not bring any results . My opinion that this issue must be addressed as soon as possible, otherwise I do not see any sense to me to continue to update prices for unusual hats - why do it, if the price of is not true in keys -buds after 1-2 days ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iris★ Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 this is the reason why i don't use bp.tf to pricecheck unusuals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Chrysalis Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Just adding my two cents here. I'm not like most Unusual traders as you can see by my backpack. I've owned... 4 Unusuals in my "TF2 career" and never more than one at a time and all under 3 buds in cost. But, from what I've seen on these Unusuals is that people are willing to pay the same amount despite how much buds cost in terms of USD. My current hat has had similar offers back when buds were 25 keys, 22 keys, and when they came back up to 24 keys recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRyders Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Common the whole community complains about this. The whole system is now retarded. Hats that were worth 20 keys a month ago and selling fine are now worth 13 keys. The more expensive the unusual, the more it differs in price. Is it hard to lock prices in buds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Yep it's really annoying to check every unusuals price extra when pricing another one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Yep it's really annoying to check every unusuals price extra when pricing another one... I used your technique on my last suggestion. Priced all the other hats based on what the hat easily sells for in pure. But very tedious, time consuming to check every single one since most unusuals are traded for other unusuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I used your technique on my last suggestion. Priced all the other hats based on what the hat easily sells for in pure. But very tedious, time consuming to check every single one since most unusuals are traded for other unusuals. I also check the original suggested price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 I also check the original suggested price. Yup, but it becomes a complete crap shoot when the original suggested price itself is 2-3 months old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Signed in support yet again. Current system is broken. As soon as something is updated, it's out of date a week later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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