Ability to remove an unusual's price?

[Hipsta Jayzus]

Hey, I owned one. anyways, I disagree with it (plus i dont think your gonna get more than 10 for it ;x). To be honest with you, I think your just gonna run off and say there is no price set on bp.tf just to get them to overprice a shitload. 

 

Im downvoting

Wow really constructive dude. I literally am using mine as an example cus it's the best unusual example I have and if you give a fuck I have offers of a Dead Pres BoA, Eerie Hoodie + timewarp warpig, and mix low tier unusual worth 13+

 

But good job for shit posting.

[Vince]

butthurt much? its just the truth

[Hipsta Jayzus]

butthurt much? its just the truth

if you actually read the forum posts here you'd realize that everything you said is pretty much is an off topic. I've been trading unusuals since mannco came out baby. I am very aware of what these sorts of things do to the market and how the temptation to "give an unusual a price!" just for the fuck of it is actually very damaging to the economy itself... but instead of engaging in a conversation about this you'd rather try to pin me as some dude who's just in it for profit as another way for you to drop your edick. 

 

I find it pretty funny how so many of you want to try to control your little corner of the market / reputation that you have found in this site by constantly posting to forums / making easy to agree with suggestions and voting on prices that you know will get accepted (fascist much?) and meanwhile you are simultaneously a small group of people who are damaging the TF2 unusual economy more than anyone else, probably more than phisher's even, just so you can maintain control of your little illusion of influence. And where does this control come from? at the core is apathy and laziness, because people just want to sacrifice quality for quantity and use this site as their bible and not learn how to price unusuals themselves... I could talk about this at lengths but I have better things to do. In the mean time, I'll defend my post as I can and probably go back into the shadows because it's a waste of breath.

 

High amounts of unusual prices = more users using this as their bible = more clicks = more money for the owners / more edick thrusting for the small user base who contributes.

 

The only person who's opinion seems to be worth a damn is awesomemccoolname.

[Woifi The Viking]

I agree that unusual prices on the site are not used properly by most of the people and that we fail to pass that information that the prices should give to them. We should really try to change that, an idea that I have is that new users have to read a short information about the unusual prices and click on agree (maybe wait a some seconds) before they can view them. 

 

About your initial suggestion, I really don't think that this is going to happen we should look out for things to improve on other places.

 

A good start would be that people who actually come to the forum get some respect.~

[Hipsta Jayzus]

 

But, the issue isn't really with the site itself or how prices are set but more how people use the site. If people would just use the site properly, then the current system would be just fine. And unpriced unusuals end up being worse than unusuals with an outdated price. Not to mention that if prices were wiped after 2-3 months then it would be impossible to have prices on everything as every suggestion would require a mini-suggestion, which would require a mini suggestion. There just around enough suggesters considering that there are like 20,000 hats.

 

 

Ok so, how about this: If an unusual does not have consistent / up to date prices it doesn't have a "fixed, written in stone, price" (meaning only unusuals consistently on the market whose values can be monitored nearly as easily as basic items get a set price range) and then, other unusuals who are up for debate simply have a section of "past trades". Give users the ability to post evidence of past trades, just like they do now, but without the stress of having to provide ample proof to show that this price is now "official". Posting proof does not have to be specifically correlated to a vote / or price fix, it's just an easy way for someone to surf through outpost trade histories of an item on an unusual until an admin or some other regulatory force deems it appropriate to set a price (based on some sort of set of rules) because there's enough current evidence and activity now to call a vote. This takes the power away from users who selectively find 3 or so trades that argue in their price's favor so that they can win approval / control a value (I work in marketing, this system is still easily gamed).

 

That means a majority of one of a kind / rare unusuals / unusuals that aren't on the market often do not have set price ranges attached but instead bring you to a page of past trade histories and you use your better judgement to decide whether this past sales correlate to a current price or not. Before anyone starts to pick this apart as being no different than what is currently going on, or simply suggesting that if only people did more work to collect trade histories then we could just price everything, remember, it's the desire to price everything that is causing damage because of how people view these prices. If you simply allowed users to easily access past trade evidence, without drawing conclusions for them, then the use of backpack.tf's unusual price engine may be viewed differently.

 

The current system implies that everything is fine and that these values are just as valid as key prices. Your little warning indication that a price isn't up to date means jack squat to 99% of your lurkers. Your average user does not have the ability to differentiate and believe that everything on backpack.tf is accurate. The system I'm suggesting (though it could use some tweaks and I'm open to suggestions) would keep backpack.tf's unusual pricing guidelines more strict without limiting their ability to give the user insight into past trades but ultimately they'll have to determine the values themselves and encourages even more contribution so that there's not the punishment / reward in place for suggesting a price.

 

Thoughts?

[♠Derpeh♤]

Ok so, how about this: If an unusual does not have consistent / up to date prices it doesn't have a "fixed, written in stone, price" (meaning only unusuals consistently on the market whose values can be monitored nearly as easily as basic items get a set price range) and then, other unusuals who are up for debate simply have a section of "past trades". Give users the ability to post evidence of past trades, just like they do now, but without the stress of having to provide ample proof to show that this price is now "official". Posting proof does not have to be specifically correlated to a vote / or price fix, it's just an easy way for someone to surf through outpost trade histories of an item on an unusual until an admin or some other regulatory force deems it appropriate to set a price (based on some sort of set of rules) because there's enough current evidence and activity now to call a vote. This takes the power away from users who selectively find 3 or so trades that argue in their price's favor so that they can win approval / control a value (I work in marketing, this system is still easily gamed).

 

The current system implies that everything is fine and that these values are just as valid as key prices. Your little warning indication that a price isn't up to date means jack squat to 99% of your lurkers. Your average user does not have the ability to differentiate and believe that everything on backpack.tf is accurate. The system I'm suggesting (though it could use some tweaks and I'm open to suggestions) would keep backpack.tf's unusual pricing guidelines more strict without limiting their ability to give the user insight into past trades but ultimately they'll have to determine the values themselves and encourages even more contribution so that there's not the punishment / reward in place for suggesting a price.

 

Thoughts?

For your first point i believe there is already a place in the forums specifically for this however as many times in the past where people would "report" their sales it opens up to manipulation and i would much prefer one person who checks (suggester) things out and sees the whole picture from scratch. Although a good idea i find that it has too many flaws as manipulators would probably report high sales over a period of time and hope someone wont notice and then get priced. example of manipulation: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/5072-banning-clear-manipulators/

 

The current system is fine the way it works however the major problem (has been brought up by many) is that there is a lack of experienced suggesters you're not going to get a lot of people willing to give up their time to price things to try help out. There needs to be a incentive for suggesters to suggest and continue suggesting.

 

You many be confusing the purpose of this site. The site is to provide a guideline of prices for users who dont have much experience avoid the newer trader to not be sharked, the removal of prices goes against that notion, we try to show the most recent sales and that's it, if there hasnt been a sale for a long time it doesnt mean we should remove the price. It means there has been no sales up update the price, removing it would lead to many problems (eg nub trader unboxes one...) A outdated price is better that no price, better to know what a hat last sold for (even when outdated) than to sell it for a craft hat...

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Give users the ability to post evidence of past trades, just like they do now, but without the stress of having to provide ample proof to show that this price is now "official". Posting proof does not have to be specifically correlated to a vote / or price fix, it's just an easy way for someone to surf through outpost trade histories of an item on an unusual until an admin or some other regulatory force deems it appropriate to set a price (based on some sort of set of rules) because there's enough current evidence and activity now to call a vote. 

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/8457-a-solution-for-an-unusual-problem-report-a-single-sale-functionality/

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/8542-report-a-single-sale-the-forum-version/

 

On one hand, I kind of like the idea of bptf becoming a repository for a list of sales rather than a list of prices as it would be an easy way to see what a hat has actually sold for recently, and then make a judgement based on sales and how you value them. But the issue with that (imo) is the people who use/rely on bptf are too stupid to figure that out--which is why they're still using bptf rather than being able to estimate prices on their own. Bptf only gives an unusuals' general price--i.e. bptf replaces the need to guestimate an unusuals worth in order to decide whether or not you're going to consider (and therefore look into) it. 

[The Radiated Banana]

Just sell your hat and suggest a new price if it is that rare

[Hipsta Jayzus]

Look guys, there's absolutely nothing you can do as far as PSAs that will change the fact that the intention of this site isn't being fully carried out as people are not using these as guidelines. There has to be a change in the way that this information is collected and conveyed. Personally, I think higher incentives / rewards for people suggesting is the wrong direction. This is what gets people to only collect trade evidence that supports their conclusions (it's very easy to change an unusual's value by a few buds in one direction or another by using specific trade examples over others).

 

You have to make this site for the laymen. Someone who relies on tl;dr for everything. I believe giving certain higher tier unusuals simply a list of past sales and removing pricing unless it is very evident that an unusual is definitely worth x amount (how this would be determined is definitely up for debate) and rewarding people for simply collecting this information on their own (some sort of "evidence gathering master!" title with a few perks) would be good enough.

 

This sort of function that I'm suggestion DOES NOT stand in the way of preventing sharks, in fact, I think it would do a better job of preventing them. When a new unusual comes out or new effect, instead of 90% of them being unpriced for 2 - 6 months (look how many ROBOs are unpriced still!) it would instead have easy to find links to multiple past trades for an item (every new unusual changes hands quickly) and bombard the user with examples of past sales so that they can make up their minds quickly without having to do it for them. Making this information easy to access and easy to input is key.

 

 

Just sell your hat and suggest a new price if it is that rare

Please read this entire thread. I know it's a mess, but it's evolving and your comment is really not necessary to the current discussion.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

-snip-

I like the idea, thats how I use bptf currently--as a quick way to find recent sales (especially ones which aren't currently "findable" on outpost).

 

The issue, however, is that I don't think it would be beneficial to the average trader who actually uses bptf as it would require them to draw conclusions on the hat, and the offers being made on the offers and the offers being made on those offers and so on. Having both ideas run in tandem, however, could potentially work. I.e. a sale would be listed, you could then check the values of the items that were offered and get a rough estimate on the sale. 

 

But the other issue is a layout, it would be very messy (obtrusive/slow/hard to use) to implement a list of recent sales that are meant to be seen/checked by everyone. The current idea of the "list your sales" suggestion/thread is targeted towards people who are doing suggestions and therefore its not to messy. 

 

Edit: The way I would see it is, there would be another option on all hats: "Recent Sales", and it would be a list of all (known) sales with the dates that they occurred on. This page would just need to look substantially different from the suggestion pages in order to prevent people from being stupid. 

[Mr Prince]

Think this should be option for unusuals that are obviously overpriced, that cannot be updated.

Better have no price on something at all then price thats obviously 50% of........