♠Derpeh♤ Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 but none of them address the absence of human-independent mechanism to minimize threats of potential conflict of interest. I dont believe you've listened to what most people have said at all, as there can be conflict of interests (might not want it to go up or down) However as everything needs to be backed up by proof it doesnt matter what you want as long as the proof is correct it will be accepted regardless. As pointed out many many times, many of the mods have accepted many suggestions which have lowered the bp by multiple buds, does it mean they wanted it to go down? no but the proof was correct and thus they accepted. Again if there is proper proof it's price is already there and doesnt have to be accepted to go up/down. EG: ive received many offers of 4-5 buds on some of my unsuuals, price on bp is 3 buds. I can still sell for 4-5 even if it isnt shown on bp, doesnt mean that until i make a suggestion upping to 4-5 buds that i cant sell for 4-5 buds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Gillard the Honest Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I regret commenting here. The notifications are unsettling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I regret commenting here. The notifications are unsettling. You can unfollow the topic? Please use the multiquote function, you made soo many double posts in this threads and I merged them all. @Topic: What if every mod owns 100s of keys, who should accept the suggestion then? And we try to not accept suggestions where we could be biased, I would never accept a unusual suggestion that bumps up my bp value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel G. Best Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 You can unfollow the topic? Please use the multiquote function, you made soo many double posts in this threads and I merged them all. @Topic: What if every mod owns 100s of keys, who should accept the suggestion then? And we try to not accept suggestions where we could be biased, I would never accept a unusual suggestion that bumps up my bp value. All I suggest is to make what you have been doing an explicit rules or guidelines. It is just that there are too many people immediately associate my opinions to those which groundlessly accuse the moderators, hence no one really understands my stance. Btw, for the hundreds of keys example you raised, that is why I suggest having more than one mod to accept certain suggestions. I do understand there is communication among mods on those suggestions but, assuming the moderator who accepts the suggestion takes sole responsibility of his action, having more than one mods sort on "sign on" the accepted suggestion would definitely ensure all users of bp.tf that accuracy and credibility are of utmost important here, ensuring the acceptance of some controversial suggestions are the product of the collective wisdom of the mods instead of the single-handed consideration of one mod. With this imposed, the conspiracy theories of those "vocal minority who complains" can be further disproved. I dont believe you've listened to what most people have said at all, as there can be conflict of interests (might not want it to go up or down) However as everything needs to be backed up by proof it doesnt matter what you want as long as the proof is correct it will be accepted regardless. As pointed out many many times, many of the mods have accepted many suggestions which have lowered the bp by multiple buds, does it mean they wanted it to go down? no but the proof was correct and thus they accepted. Again if there is proper proof it's price is already there and doesnt have to be accepted to go up/down. EG: ive received many offers of 4-5 buds on some of my unsuuals, price on bp is 3 buds. I can still sell for 4-5 even if it isnt shown on bp, doesnt mean that until i make a suggestion upping to 4-5 buds that i cant sell for 4-5 buds. Please try to understand my points. I can see that you did not try because you fixate on some of the phrases of my arguments but you show no understand of human-independent mechanism. Let me explain why the points you and others have made, which were summarized in 3 points, are not human-independent mechanism and have yet to minimize the threat of conflict of interests. 1) The provision of proof You merely argue that since a suggestion cannot be approved without legitimate proof. If a mod accepts a suggestion with obviously poor proof, his action will for sure be spotted and there will be consequences. This is true, provided that the quality of the proof can easily graded upon a dichotomy of "poor" and "good". There are myriad cases that the proof does not undeniably point to a flat price. Price range, old trades, bump frequency and many other ad hoc events always pose uncertainty to the price suggestion, leaving a lot of room for the mods and even other users to interpret the quality and relevancy of the proof. Therefore, we can clearly see that proof is not the dominant factor in a price suggestion and mods are always the one who accept the suggestion eventually, making it clearly not a human-independent mechanism that can effective eliminate threats of conflict of interests. 2) Key suggestion As Woifi pointed and some of the comments pointed out, keys are common currency items, it is virtually impossible to have a moderators with none of those items to accept the suggestion. However, one point has to be made very clear that: having logical reasons to possess keys do not make the potential threats of conflict of interests disappear, it just make it less plausible to be the actual case. Hence, I suggest having more than one mod on accepting the suggestion. 3) Mods have made acceptance which are against their bp value These are only proofs that ensure the integrity of particular mods. However, I just think people would like a fair and robust system the effective function of which does not rely solely on the integrity of the people involved. The logic is: They don't, does not mean they can't. If they don't, you can trust them; if they can't. there is no way you can not to trust them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HusKy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 controversial suggestions are the product of the collective wisdom of the mods They never are. Suggestions are made by users. You are confusing this website with "bible" like many others. It's not, it's mere guide to quickly see average market price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel G. Best Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 They never are. Suggestions are made by users. You are confusing this website with "bible" like many others. It's not, it's mere guide to quickly see average market price. well the subject of the sentence is "the acceptance of the controversial suggestions", it is a noun phrase, in case u didnt notice please read carefully and thoroughly before you made any hasty remarks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♠Derpeh♤ Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Btw, for the hundreds of keys example you raised, that is why I suggest having more than one mod to accept certain suggestions. I do understand there is communication among mods on those suggestions but, assuming the moderator who accepts the suggestion takes sole responsibility of his action, having more than one mods sort on "sign on" the accepted suggestion would definitely ensure all users of bp.tf that accuracy and credibility are of utmost important here, ensuring the acceptance of some controversial suggestions are the product of the collective wisdom of the mods instead of the single-handed consideration of one mod. 1) The provision of proof There are myriad cases that the proof does not undeniably point to a flat price. Price range, old trades, bump frequency and many other ad hoc events always pose uncertainty to the price suggestion, leaving a lot of room for the mods and even other users to interpret the quality and relevancy of the proof. The logic is: They don't, does not mean they can't. If they don't, you can trust them; if they can't. there is no way you can not to trust them. Firstly all currency suggestions are over viewed by all mods and it isnt one mod which accepts. In regards to your comments about proof may be uncertain a mod would elect to leave their comments about the proof and proof they found and allow another mod to oversee the suggestion and a decision will be made, if their isnt enough proof then often they will select to wait until there is a clearer range. I believe you're confusing the website being a bible for prices, the price is a guide and isnt something which should be followed exactly. Also note that regardless of our stance against currency there will be controversy and cant be stopped as there is no way to please everyone. Normally for trickier suggestions multiple mods provide their input before reaching a decision and all currency suggestions all mods overview the proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel G. Best Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Firstly all currency suggestions are over viewed by all mods and it isnt one mod which accepts. In regards to your comments about proof may be uncertain a mod would elect to leave their comments about the proof and proof they found and allow another mod to oversee the suggestion and a decision will be made, if their isnt enough proof then often they will select to wait until there is a clearer range. I believe you're confusing the website being a bible for prices, the price is a guide and isnt something which should be followed exactly. Also note that regardless of our stance against currency there will be controversy and cant be stopped as there is no way to please everyone. Normally for trickier suggestions multiple mods provide their input before reaching a decision and all currency suggestions all mods overview the proof. The bp is not a bible is not excuse for inaccuracy and compromised credibility. As you said, for those currency and controversial items suggestions, there are multiple mods involved but this is not required, at least as a common users, I don't see explicit rules requiring that. All I suggest is to make these explicitly required. which give all users more faith in the accuracy of the site. On a side note, not all traders are as experienced as you are to know that actual market prices may deviate from bp suggested price. I thought bp.tf's mission is to help the less informed traders instead of letting the experienced traders show off their pricing ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The bp is not a bible is not excuse for inaccuracy and compromised credibility. As you said, for those currency and controversial items suggestions, there are multiple mods involved but this is not required, at least as a common users, I don't see explicit rules requiring that. All I suggest is to make these explicitly required. which give all users more faith in the accuracy of the site. On a side note, not all traders are as experienced as you are to know that actual market prices may deviate from bp suggested price. I thought bp.tf's mission is to help the less informed traders instead of letting the experienced traders show off their pricing ability. Common Sense > Rules, that's at least how it is for mods. If a mod lacks common sense he wouldn't be mod in the first place. We are trying our best to keep our good reputation, and I don't think publishing mod guidelines is necessary to improve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Moderators follow the same rules as users and know them better than most users because they constantly need to refer to them in order to point out a reason a user's comment was warned or why they were banned every time someone makes a big deal about it. Any more extensive rules for moderators is unnecessary since moderators were given their position for demonstrating and continuing to demonstrate appropriate conduct and involvement in the site through relevant comments, accurate voting, and helpful suggestions in order to help the current moderators better carry out their jobs. I believe it would be a pointless waste of time and effort for moderators to write up a set of rules by which to conduct themselves with that would be separate from backpack.tf's main rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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