How a Paypal scammer is thriving on Backpack.tf

[D.Alex]

( My previous post: Paypal scammers exploiting backpack.tf trusts )

 

I'm posting this because we need to shatter some illusions. If you think you can trust Backpack.tf trust pages - you're wrong. If you think your safety might be top priority for BP staff ... well, think again.

 

In Sep 2018 I saw this report about Paypal scammer "Matics" and I remember being surprised at how someone can trust $730 or even $1400 to some new unknown account with basically zero BP history.  The signs of that account being a PayPal scammer were plainly obvious to me and I thought I could try make some difference. You see, I was young and naive back then.

 

On Oct 20, 2018 I created a report (private) about an account with obviously fake 10+ trusts (just enough to start scamming). 2 days later Mods banned the account, then applied SteamRep mark indicating it was the same person as "Matics".

 

I probably prevented someone from being scammed that week. Unfortunately this turned out to be my only success.

 

On Nov 9, 2018 I created a report (private) about another account. The next day came a report saying that someone was already scammed on Nov 5. 

On Jan 4, 2019 I reported (private) "Cuze" account with exactly the same patterns as before. However, this time a Mod started to explain to me how all my listed points are invalid if we look at them  separately one by one and how this is a completely legit account. 5 days later we had this forum post about $670 scam. Um ... okay, I thought. Just a one time hiccup. Happens.

 

Finally, on Feb 17, 2019 I reported (private) "Dior" account which had exactly the same patterns as all his previous accounts:

• practically empty inventory
• fake TF2/CS:GO/Dota2 hours
• obviously fake 15+ trusts all coming  from completely private Steam accounts

I also pointed out this snapshot which contains:

• 60 keys coming directly from several different previous accounts of "Matics"
• 9 Scream Fortress/Munition crates coming from Dior back to another of those banned accounts.

I also demonstrated that a lot of items from yet another of those accounts were also in Dior's possession.

 

The report was somehow rejected.

 

I left -trust for this account, it was removed. I left another -trust explaining all the issues with these fake trusts in great details, it was removed too. Apparently only big established traders are allowed to do that ( see -trust at the bottom).

 

I explained my concerns in both Dior's posts in Cash Trading forum. His response? Making another thread.

 

Okay, I replied in his new thread too. Then my post was deleted and I received a Forum ban from Teeny for "spamming".

 

But wait, for someone to actually "spam" like this you need enough threads to do that, right? This was already 3rd Dior's thread in that forum while rules clearly say "users are currently limited to two threads each". You'd think admins are supposed to know and enforce the rules ...

Later when Dior made thread #5 in the same forum I finally discovered this rule and reported that thread. A Mod responded to him with something like "oh please don't make anymore". I asked in Discord wouldn't the proper action be to delete the threads that break the rule and was told "they're locked now". Sorry but I fail to understand how exactly "locking" is helpful here. Those ads did not need replies, they said "contact me on Steam" and they served their purpose just fine while being locked.

 

Then some time after that Dior apparently negotiated something with Mods and they deleted ... do you think the new threads that were actually breaking the rule? Of course not! The old ones with my replies in them. Now there wasn't even a hint of suspicion anywhere on this shiny scammer's account.

 

Dior also (after I mentioned those fake TF2/Dota2 hours in my post) simply removed both games from his Steam account. However, his new forum post was still saying "+15 trust ... Over 7777 hours in TF2". I asked Teeny if at least this part can be somehow contested. Nope.

 

Yes, you read this right. Not only I was not allowed to express my opinion on forum but also was prohibited even from pointing out an outright lie.

 

 

The following weeks were pretty uneventful. Just some people were getting scammed. Not a big deal, right?

 

I was occasionally checking Dior's trust page and seeing -trusts from victims that were then promptly removed by Mods.

 

Some victims actually made reports but were unwilling to follow or unable to prove it correctly. After all, this was usually the first time for them vs several years of Dior's scamming experience.

Then the account was finally banned on March 21, one month after my report.
 

[SVENNEN123]

Actually quite interesting!

[creepio]

I really don't care about anyone's reputation or trust. Especially considering all the instances of reputable buyers charging back. Everyone is out to profit, and being dishonest is the easiest way to do it. Some of my best steam friends I met through trading are certified trade bullies. Unfortunately, these guys will occasionally cross a line that kills their rep for good. 

 

Known scammers pay the right people for privilege. I've actually spoken to 0gravity0 (untouched alternate account known as AfricanDrugLord/NopainNogain) and he told me he had a guy that could wipe steamrep marks. For a couple of keys on top of a commitment to buy his PE Pyromancer Mask he had a report against me closed.. and in this instance, I was certainly deserving of a mark as I traded with a scammer. (note this was years ago)

 

Anybody that has dealt with him.. stop me when I'm wrong.. He harasses you. He tells you he's going to be deployed so he wants to get this deal done. His brother has AIDS and he needs the cash. If you waste a second of his time, he will block you for weeks/months, and then contact you as if you've been looking out your window all that time waiting on his message. Top to bottom dingus. Knows what items are good and bad.. but a serious P.O.S. I think he's cashed out, but I have no doubt in my mind once he's done single-handedly winning a war, his brother will get cancer and he will need more money for hospital bills before he begins his 27th tour. 

 

To be clear.. I am very conscious of who I trade with now.. I'm not one of the bad guys! 

 

edit: I may have gone a bit overboard. Just sort of pointing out that I don't trust any mods. I respect the rules and whatnot.. but it's a job title. I don't have to salute you. There's a lot of bs that goes ignored and it's a darn shame. 

[Infernape]

Such a shame people have to go so low to begin with.

 

[S T E W]

3 hours ago, han singular said:

I really don't care about anyone's reputation or trust. Especially considering all the instances of reputable buyers charging back. Everyone is out to profit, and being dishonest is the easiest way to do it. Some of my best steam friends I met through trading are certified trade bullies. Unfortunately, these guys will occasionally cross a line that kills their rep for good. 

 

Known scammers pay the right people for privilege. I've actually spoken to 0gravity0 (untouched alternate account known as AfricanDrugLord/NopainNogain) and he told me he had a guy that could wipe steamrep marks. For a couple of keys on top of a commitment to buy his PE Pyromancer Mask he had a report against me closed.. and in this instance, I was certainly deserving of a mark as I traded with a scammer. (note this was years ago)

 

Anybody that has dealt with him.. stop me when I'm wrong.. He harasses you. He tells you he's going to be deployed so he wants to get this deal done. His brother has AIDS and he needs the cash. If you waste a second of his time, he will block you for weeks/months, and then contact you as if you've been looking out your window all that time waiting on his message. Top to bottom dingus. Knows what items are good and bad.. but a serious P.O.S. I think he's cashed out, but I have no doubt in my mind once he's done single-handedly winning a war, his brother will get cancer and he will need more money for hospital bills before he begins his 27th tour. 

 

To be clear.. I am very conscious of who I trade with now.. I'm not one of the bad guys! 

 

edit: I may have gone a bit overboard. Just sort of pointing out that I don't trust any mods. I respect the rules and whatnot.. but it's a job title. I don't have to salute you. There's a lot of bs that goes ignored and it's a darn shame. 

Staff do not deserve respect simply for being staff. That's a point I can agree to. People don't respect Donald Trump or any other world leader just because they are in a position of power, so why must I venerate random people on the internet?

 

(Note: I harbor no resentment towards staff, and I appreciate the job you guys do as volunteers. However, as with good journalism, it is important to point out flaws when we see them to grow as individuals. This also works the other way around.)

[D.Alex]

Now about more recent times. 3 interesting threads in the same Cash Trading forum caught my attention:

1. Diamond 
2. Jellyfish
3. Cribbles

Anyone can look at those backpacks, trust pages and all-unlocked-in-one-day TF2 achievements and decide for themselves.

 

However, I'm pretty sure I saw a reply on the 2nd thread asking about those hours/achievements. This reply is just not there anymore. Apparently it's still "illegal" to ask this kind of question.

 

The 2nd account was also reported here. Now, 20 day later, it already has two SteamRep "PayPal scamming" reports.

 

The 3rd account was reported by me about 8 days ago. I would say the possibility that this account does not belong to Matics/Dior is about 0.01%.

The report is private but I can share my reasonings with any well known community member (PM in forum or add on Steam or D.Alex#9298 on Discord).

 

A Mod who's probably unfamiliar with this whole story quickly dismissed my report and even was like "what? not sure how you came to all these conclusions".

I have to admit I was not surprised at all.

 

[Diamond jozu]

honestly if i was a bad person and decide to be a scammer,this method is literally the easiest way to do scamming(i am in no way supporting scammers).

 

think about it.all you gotta do is make alt accounts,build up some play time, a.k.a., idling,have some money,get some trusts and done.

 

 

one other thing i noticed is that one of their strategies is they try to get trusts from highly trusted people.a common one is from 'naknak'.i do not blame naknak but because of getting trusts from him or even other people,the victims would simply be vulnerable.

 

 

so how the hell can we resolve this issue?remove backpack.tf trust and use marketplace.tf only?be my guest

[Diamond jozu]

7 minutes ago, D.Alex said:

Now about more recent times. 3 interesting threads in the same Cash Trading forum caught my attention:

1. Diamond 
2. Jellyfish
3. Cribbles

Anyone can look at those backpacks, trust pages and all-unlocked-in-one-day TF2 achievements and decide for themselves.

 

However, I'm pretty sure I saw a reply on the 2nd thread asking about those hours/achievements. This reply is just not there anymore. Apparently it's still "illegal" to ask this kind of question.

 

The 2nd account was also reported here. Now, 20 day later, it already has two SteamRep "PayPal scamming" reports.

 

The 3rd account was reported by me about 8 days ago. I would say the possibility that this account does not belong to Matics/Dior is about 0.01%.

The report is private but I can share my reasonings with any well known community member (PM in forum or add on Steam or D.Alex#9298 on Discord).

 

A Mod who's probably unfamiliar with this whole story quickly dismissed my report and even was like "what? not sure how you came to all these conclusions".

I have to admit I was not surprised at all.

 

all those 3 accounts are probably alts together.they all have trusts by same accounts....

[Mrs TS]

What I find funny is, the Cribbles account claims he has 2000 keys to sell but, only a 300 slot backpack.  So, where are they hiding?

 

Here's a great idea, Jellyfish should buy the keys off of Cribbles.

[ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy]

23 minutes ago, Diamond jozu said:

one other thing i noticed is that one of their strategies is they try to get trusts from highly trusted people.a common one is from 'naknak'.i do not blame naknak but because of getting trusts from him or even other people,the victims would simply be vulnerable.

 

 

so how the hell can we resolve this issue?remove backpack.tf trust and use marketplace.tf only?be my guest

If naknak truly is trading these accounts, an issue should be brought up with him/her about background checks, seeing as these profiles are quite obviously suspicious and naknak is definitely not inexperiened.

 

I think removing trusts altogether is a bit volatile of a solution. What I'd propose is requiring all trusts, positive or negative, to have photographic proof to support them, as is required for a report. I understand the scammers could easily make fake trades and take screenshots of those, but I suppose it's a step towards the right direction, since I doubt every scammer would be willing to go through the effort of making these trades for every +trust they give themselves and their alts.

 

9 hours ago, D.Alex said:

I left -trust for this account, it was removed. I left another -trust explaining all the issues with these fake trusts in great details, it was removed too. Apparently only big established traders are allowed to do that ( see -trust at the bottom).

 

Okay, I replied in his new thread too. Then my post was deleted and I received a Forum ban from Teeny for "spamming".

 

Dior also (after I mentioned those fake TF2/Dota2 hours in my post) simply removed both games from his Steam account. However, his new forum post was still saying "+15 trust ... Over 7777 hours in TF2". I asked Teeny if at least this part can be somehow contested. Nope.

Judging solely by how you've worded the first part with the -trust, perhaps it's because Tony's -trust mentioned the suspicious behavior regarding the market price and what the scammer was paying, rather than just that there are suspicious +trusts. You may have as well, but I can't tell. If you did, then that would seem hypocritical.

 

I also agree that it seems a bit hypocritical for you to be reported for spamming, though you were to an extent, but not the scammer profile.

 

As for the "+15 trust ... Over 7777 hours in TF2" fact, perhaps requiring images for the +trusts would help to counter invalid +trusts? Still not sure of a good solution for this issue.

If you can't even see the user's TF2 hours to verify their credibility, I would think that should be disputable, but I guess Teeny saw it differently.

[Diamond jozu]

3 minutes ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy 7309 said:

If naknak truly is trading these accounts, an issue should be brought up with him/her about background checks, seeing as these profiles are quite obviously suspicious and naknak is definitely not inexperiened.

 

I think removing trusts altogether is a bit volatile of a solution. What I'd propose is requiring all trusts, positive or negative, to have photographic proof to support them, as is required for a report. I understand the scammers could easily make fake trades and take screenshots of those, but I suppose it's a step towards the right direction, since I doubt every scammer would be willing to go through the effort of making these trades for every +trust they give themselves and their alts.

 

Judging solely by how you've worded the first part with the -trust, perhaps it's because Tony's -trust mentioned the suspicious behavior regarding the market price and what the scammer was paying, rather than just that there are suspicious +trusts. You may have as well, but I can't tell. If you did, then that would seem hypocritical.

 

I also agree that it seems a bit hypocritical for you to be reported for spamming, though you were to an extent, but not the scammer profile.

 

As for the "+15 trust ... Over 7777 hours in TF2" fact, perhaps requiring images for the +trusts would help to counter invalid +trusts? Still not sure of a good solution for this issue.

If you can't even see the user's TF2 hours to verify their credibility, I would think that should be disputable, but I guess Teeny saw it differently.

thats why in my trusts i ask my clients to take screenshots of my transactions.usually my brokers and risky ones.spycrabs not much since it was low in value.

 

i would agree if there is a rule to do background checking as just like how we have to check if one is a scammer or not

[DanielDee]

Keepng on fighting the fight mate. Clearly they arent. I get your beef about the warning for spamming to. I was sharked by iTrade once with full proof. I reported him. I got a ban and he got jack sh!t

Also what you say about mods declining reports. Moderators should not be actioning reports. thats admin and sysops role. A normal moderator moderates ie trade,  forums for spam abuse inappropriate content etc. Whoever allowed mods to action reports is crazy, or just plain lazy and delegating to less experienced people because they dont have the will to. THe main reasoning behind my comment about mods and reports is because to investigate a report shouldnt you have access to IP history on site /server logs and other metric data, useragent usage, ip location changing etc etc to check for suspect alts. Im sure the mods dont have this do they?

17 hours ago, D.Alex said:

 

 

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

It is incredibly unfortunate when people get scammed, and you know full well that I don't have any desire to support or aid scammers in any way. HOWEVER it is also incredibly shitty for people when they get harassed, bullied, or banned, when they have done nothing wrong. There are a handful of cases where someone built up trust and then went on to use it to scam, and that sucks, and it sucks even harder when you suspected they may do that and feel powerless because you could have potentially stopped them. HOWEVER there are many, many more cases where someone built up trust and didn't go on to scam anyone. The trust system is inherently flawed by design. It should require proof in all positive trusts. I don't dispute that remotely. But I wasn't here when it was made, and it now has years of history build up. So what should we do? Delete it all and start over? Is that what the community really wants, given how many people have built their trust reputation over years and years of trading? 

 

End of the day, what really needs to happen is for people to start understanding what trust is and what it isn't. It's a vouch. It's not evidence of anything. When you go to a profile who is offering you a cash trade, you need to make a decision for yourself on whether you trust that account, taking into consideration all the factors. What's the best way to help more vulnerable traders do that, do you think?

 

14 hours ago, DanielDee said:

Also what you say about mods declining reports. Moderators should not be actioning reports. thats admin and sysops role. A normal moderator moderates ie trade,  forums for spam abuse inappropriate content etc. Whoever allowed mods to action reports is crazy, or just plain lazy and delegating to less experienced people because they dont have the will to. THe main reasoning behind my comment about mods and reports is because to investigate a report shouldnt you have access to IP history on site /server logs and other metric data, useragent usage, ip location changing etc etc to check for suspect alts. Im sure the mods dont have this do they?

 

 

This is incorrect and not how this site functions. Admins oversee mods, but the mods are perfectly capable of handling reports themselves. Report moderators are not inexperienced, and they are not the same thing as forum moderators.

[ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy]

23 minutes ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

End of the day, what really needs to happen is for people to start understanding what trust is and what it isn't. It's a vouch. It's not evidence of anything. When you go to a profile who is offering you a cash trade, you need to make a decision for yourself on whether you trust that account, taking into consideration all the factors. What's the best way to help more vulnerable traders do that, do you think?

Perhaps we could pin a message on the site detailing common scams/what to look for in a scam since not every new trader will join the forums to see the pages about those here? Basing this off the airhorn on SteamRep's website. The pinned message could follow users onto other users' profile pages similarly to how SteamRep's airhorn message shows at the top of every page.

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

Just now, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy 7309 said:

Perhaps we could pin a message on the site detailing common scams/what to look for in a scam since not every new trader will join the forums to see the pages about those here? Basing this off the airhorn on SteamRep's website. The pinned message could follow users onto other users' profile pages similarly to how SteamRep's airhorn message shows at the top of every page.

 

Planning on some guides for the main page, it's in the works.

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

The best way I can see to try and deal with this to protect both vulnerable traders and innocent accounts is to allow mods to remove trust on accounts that are deemed suspicious, and only allow that trust to be replaced if proof is included. If the trust is genuine, the user can prove that and it can be replaced, so it wouldn't hurt the innocent. If it's not, then it's gone and can't be used to scam anyone. Thoughts?

[TheWiz]

Would requiring any trust after a rule change of needing visual proof of +trust be a possibility too? Makes it more difficult for new +trust to be fabricated while also not screwing over traders that have gotten +trusts over years of cash trading, etc.?

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

10 hours ago, TheWiz said:

Would requiring any trust after a rule change of needing visual proof of +trust be a possibility too? Makes it more difficult for new +trust to be fabricated while also not screwing over traders that have gotten +trusts over years of cash trading, etc.?

 

I don't really see how it's fair to require proof from now on when we haven't for years. I think it could arguably make people even more vulnerable too, to be honest, since the impression of trust would shift to people generally feeling that it was more valid since it requires proof, even though 100,000+ proofless trusts would still be there. Like I feel like it would be a false sense of security. I'd be fine advising people to include proof from now on, but people still need to take trust for what it is by actually reading it and looking at who it's from. That's how the trust system is meant to be used.

[Diamond jozu]

thing is this is the INTERNET. We should not trust anyone in the first place. As far as i can remember is that there was 2 huge scam cases where trust was abused.

 

1. A case about some dude who had brokering bots but went on a scamming spree.(many years ago)

 

2. Trusted trader Gov Merp. Went on a paypal and brokering spree scam.

 

These 2 cases are the only ones that i know had full trust from the community and ended as scumbags.

 

so conclusion? i have no idea. you be the judge

[_inu]

3 minutes ago, Diamond jozu said:

thing is this is the INTERNET. We should not trust anyone in the first place. As far as i can remember is that there was 2 huge scam cases where trust was abused.

 

1. A case about some dude who had brokering bots but went on a scamming spree.(many years ago)

 

2. Trusted trader Gov Merp. Went on a paypal and brokering spree scam.

 

These 2 cases are the only ones that i know had full trust from the community and ended as scumbags.

 

so conclusion? i have no idea. you be the judge

I don't see the point of your post.

 

You are essentially discrediting all the reputation anyone has ever built up because of a few bad apples.

[Diamond jozu]

2 minutes ago, _inu said:

I don't see the point of your post.

 

You are essentially discrediting all the reputation anyone has ever built up because of a few bad apples.

we have marketplace.tf

 

thats like using lazada or shoppee 

 

as for the reps i guess it just depends the type of people you meet. of course there is steamrep middleman or other trusted middlemans

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

1 hour ago, Diamond jozu said:

of course there is steamrep middleman or other trusted middlemans

 

Just gonna note here that there are no steamrep middlemen.

[Diamond jozu]

1 hour ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

 

Just gonna note here that there are no steamrep middlemen.

im sorry but i meant the middleman list

https://steamrep.com/list/M

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

25 minutes ago, Diamond jozu said:

im sorry but i meant the middleman list

https://steamrep.com/list/M

 

Yep, just clarifying that they are not steamrep middlemen.