Bekfust Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Shmevin said: It's interesting how everyone wants a few specific individuals to be banned because they found success using a service offered by backpack.tf That’s a funny way of spelling “swindled people.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmevin Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, Bekfust said: That’s a funny way of spelling “swindled people.” Swindle is to use deception to deprive and steal, or to obtain fraudulently. Please demonstrate how they have done any of those things. No deceptive tactics were used, items were traded not stolen (both parties negotiated to an agreed amount), and was done using a service offered by backpack.tf. If someone is caught doing any of the things I mentioned, they would certainly be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatGibus Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 10 hours ago, DanielDee said: The reason he hasnt been banned is beacuse he is essentially teeny tiny cats employer. If you go banning all the sharks none of the mods, admins, sysops or devs would get paid. Bad situation to be in. Massive conflict of interest. I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neinlove Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Shmevin said: 1. If you took five seconds to copy and paste the quote into google you will find it was by Friedrich Nietzsche. Imagine doing this and not making yourself look like a fool one sentence into your post. You're right, calling you out for quoting Nietzsche would have been way more funny than Ayn Rand. 2 hours ago, Shmevin said: You're conflating sharking with scamming, which further proves that sharking has no widely agreed upon definition. How can you expect admins to enforce a rule that is so loosely defined? The widely agreed upon definition is that sharking is a form of scamming. Please share with us your definition of sharking, or scamming, or conflating. 2 hours ago, Shmevin said: I've been involved in or actively monitoring the topic of sharking for over five years, longer than you've had your steam account. Just because my opinion is unpopular doesn't mean I am not knowledgeable on the topic or this case in particular. Users that regularly make unbalanced trades with the unboxers of new unusuals do get punished. They receive a long, almost always permanent, negative trust rating from an admin warning potential traders of their habits. However, if they are found to have lied or heavily manipulated the value of items in order to swindle the other user, they HAVE and WILL receive a ban. My original Steam account is over a decade old so I too have been "monitoring the topic of sharking" since sitting in Pink Taco's server and watching the sharks come in and end up getting shunned by the community. Negative trusts don't matter to users who don't know this site exists. Negative reputation doesn't seem to matter at all on this site considering how "successful" sharks are. 2 hours ago, Shmevin said: "Fair price" is subjective. There are 7 Halloween Effects on the Rotation Sensation that are priced at or below 200 keys. The seller asked for 200 keys, they knew backpack.tf prices, and were comfortable with the trade. What about this trade is not fair? "Hey, congrats on the unbox. I see you wanted 200 keys. Well that's a little bit too steep for my budget. I could offer you a hat that will probably take you a month to sell for 100 Keys and a whopping 48 Keys pure. Oh by the way, literally tomorrow I'm going to be selling this hat for about 500 Keys. I hope you don't mind. It's not like you would have wanted that, am I right?" 2 hours ago, Shmevin said: Tradable keys were an indication that they were familiar with trading, which is supported by the several items in his inventory obtained by trading. Just because they are not trading and visiting backpack.tf everyday doesn't mean they aren't knowledgeable. You're right, he's not knowledgeable because he let a renowned shark buy his unusual for over a 70% discount. 2 hours ago, Shmevin said: It's interesting how everyone wants a few specific individuals to be banned because they found success using a service offered by backpack.tf, but can't be bothered to help out these "victims" because its not worth their time, they don't get to flex their ego publicly, and don't receive praise or admiration for their efforts. Most of you are out for blood, that's all it really is. Look man, just because Jhejh added the guy and sharked his unusual before you could doesn't mean that you're any less worthy of my praise and admiration. You won't get to flex your ego this time but the unboxing season isn't over and there's always another one around the bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loser Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 well time to buy premium if its ok to scam people with a non-existent punishment!!!! thanks backpack!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provoktion Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I would like to throw my 2 cents into this situation as a one unusual at a time trader who's inv space is full and hasn't gotten around to getting a bp expander 11 hours ago, DanielDee said: The reason he hasnt been banned is beacuse he is essentially teeny tiny cats employer. If you go banning all the sharks none of the mods, admins, sysops or devs would get paid. Bad situation to be in. Massive conflict of interest. i've heard of things like this and i agree, it's not like the bp.tf mods can't get paid by other means and it's not like everyone who uses premium uses it to shark 3 hours ago, LSO said: You're right, there is fierce competition to buy from these unboxers for a low as possible price and unfortunately certain users who get in touch with unknowledgeable unboxers before others tell them that other people who try to add them are going to try scam them; therefore they block any new invites to offer or warn them about this method. This happened when someone I know got really salty about a new unboxer taking a far worse offer than he offered and was blocked by the person for being a "scammer". The item was then sold for a horrible exchange to one of the common culprits whom I forget at this point. So the end result is that there are times when there is very limited to no competition if someone spins their lies well enough. 12 hours ago, Graatz said: What’s the point of restricting sharks from using premium if they can just create alts and repeat? This won’t fix the problem. to fix this, i think we need to make an IP ban system 14 hours ago, Shmevin said: Teeny Tiny Cat stated those who are found to often participating in these trades will receive a negative trust, JhehJ poT qualified for that action, and action has been taken. Anything other than posting negative trusts is excessive in my eyes. I think negative trust should be a warning, and if they shark again they get banned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenSakura Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 Something I wanted to clarify: I am proposing that people who have shown a consistent history of sharking new players deserve to be UNABLE to use backpack.tf's PREMIUM SEARCH function. NOt a ban from the site, just unable to use it. It's a fair compromise imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neinlove Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Someone unboxed a Galactic Head Hedge. I go on their profile to warn them that Jhejh will be adding them to try to shark them soon. I see that Jhejh had already left a comment on this guy's profile in May. Jhejh has already sharked the guy for a Scorching Punk's Pomp a couple of months ago. I wonder if he can shark the same guy twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3SP4WN Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 hours ago, Neinlove said: Someone unboxed a Galactic Head Hedge. I go on their profile to warn them that Jhejh will be adding them to try to shark them soon. I see that Jhejh had already left a comment on this guy's profile in May. Jhejh has already sharked the guy for a Scorching Punk's Pomp a couple of months ago. I wonder if he can shark the same guy twice. How do these mother truckers unbox god tier shit. I swear to god valve is the real issue here, trolling my ass by giving me 100 of those creepy spider bois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Himself Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Multiple shark trades where you pay less than 25% of items value should be counted as a bannable offense definitely. Multiple friends of mine have gotten sharked by jhejh and it honestly pisses me off. Ip ban this mf into shadow realm so he never uses premium to shark again. Y E E T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsestepping Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Some people just don't care that much about TF2 items and will gladly trade away a $800 hat for 90% off. Why? Because selling a hat for "full price" (which rarely happens nowadays anyway) requires trolling the trade waters until you find a buyer, putting up with low-ballers and outright scammers for months on end, all for the chance to sell for what people say it's worth. Compare to people like jhej who offer $100 right now in the form of cash or easily-sold community items. Why bother trying to sell for some predetermined maximum value when this guy is offering five times what you spent on crates and keys? It's not scamming or even sharking, it's just lazy people indulging in a no-hassle deal. Nothing about the situation is morally unsound. You can "fix" the search feature if you really want but all that's doing is keeping unusuals out of the market, all because you don't appreciate how somebody was smarter/earlier than you. The end result is more needless restrictions, less unusuals circulating, people like jhej utilizing a new tool and more deluded SCM sellers trying to offload their Bubbling hats for the price of a new car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond jozu Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 to be honest, we should not ban premium for sharkers. we should have premium removed completely.what is the point of premium?i dont see anything good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_inu Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 21 minutes ago, Horsestepping said: Some people just don't care that much about TF2 items and will gladly trade away a $800 hat for 90% off. Why? Because selling a hat for "full price" (which rarely happens nowadays anyway) requires trolling the trade waters until you find a buyer, putting up with low-ballers and outright scammers for months on end, all for the chance to sell for what people say it's worth. Compare to people like jhej who offer $100 right now in the form of cash or easily-sold community items. Why bother trying to sell for some predetermined maximum value when this guy is offering five times what you spent on crates and keys? It's not scamming or even sharking, it's just lazy people indulging in a no-hassle deal. Nothing about the situation is morally unsound. You can "fix" the search feature if you really want but all that's doing is keeping unusuals out of the market, all because you don't appreciate how somebody was smarter/earlier than you. The end result is more needless restrictions, less unusuals circulating, people like jhej utilizing a new tool and more deluded SCM sellers trying to offload their Bubbling hats for the price of a new car. If you are going to defend sharking, at least use sound analogies. Countless of victims came back and explained their distress about being sharked, so obviously this has nothing to do with them being aware of the item's price but wanting a quick buck. Whether sharking deserves a ban or not is entirely up to individual opinion, whether sharks are human garbage is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsestepping Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 1 minute ago, _inu said: If you are going to defend sharking, at least use sound analogies. Countless of victims came back and explained their distress about being sharked, so obviously this has nothing to do with them being aware of the item's price but wanting a quick buck. Whether sharking deserves a ban or not is entirely up to individual opinion, whether sharks are human garbage is not. Where are these "countless victims"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_inu Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 10 minutes ago, Horsestepping said: Where are these "countless victims"? I've dealt with countless of support tickets and reports straight from the victims with proper documentation of the shark. These people are not even aware they got sharked until someone tells them they did, because sharks are insanely deceptive with some being more low key about it than others. I am not sure what is there to defend about experienced traders lying to a new unboxer to grab their items for less than 50% of the market price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsestepping Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, _inu said: I've dealt with countless of support tickets and reports straight from the victims with proper documentation of the shark. These people are not even aware they got sharked until someone tells them they did, because sharks are insanely deceptive with some being more low key about it than others. I am not sure what is there to defend about experienced traders lying to a new unboxer to grab their items for less than 50% of the market price. I won't believe there are "countless victims" of sharking without hard evidence. If there was truly an epidemic you would hear about it, predominantly on places like the TF2 community hub or the subreddit where ordinary players tend to hang out. Some people just want to sell their items quickly and without having to deal with trade scene autism. "Don't hate the player, hate the game" is the best way to summarize this whole topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Himself Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 18 minutes ago, Horsestepping said: I won't believe there are "countless victims" of sharking without hard evidence. If there was truly an epidemic you would hear about it, predominantly on places like the TF2 community hub or the subreddit where ordinary players tend to hang out. Some people just want to sell their items quickly and without having to deal with trade scene autism. "Don't hate the player, hate the game" is the best way to summarize this whole topic. Jesus do you come off as a cucklord, literally check the history of each of jhejhs countless unusuals if you want to find a lot of victims lol. Whatever, support sharking, gotta protect your own kind here eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsestepping Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, The King Himself said: Jesus do you come off as a cucklord, literally check the history of each of jhejhs countless unusuals if you want to find a lot of victims lol. Whatever, support sharking, gotta protect your own kind here eh? This is the trade scene autism I was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provoktion Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Diamond jozu said: to be honest, we should not ban premium for sharkers. we should have premium removed completely.what is the point of premium?i dont see anything good... the point of premium is for (hopefully legit) traders to know who owns an unusual that they want and be able to contact them and own it, it's also a way for backpack.tf mods/devs to get money (although as i mentioned earlier it's not like they can't get money by other means) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond jozu Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Provoktion said: the point of premium is for (hopefully legit) traders to know who owns an unusual that they want and be able to contact them and own it, it's also a way for backpack.tf mods/devs to get money (although as i mentioned earlier it's not like they can't get money by other means) i understand that bp.tf devs/mods/admins need to get some sort of money since the site is being used everyday for business. However i think there has to be a limit. For example:if a user has been reported several times for sharking,their usage of premium has to be cut off.if nothing is done then we all can just buy premium and shaark all the way everyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted October 30, 2018 Administrators Share Posted October 30, 2018 I have no idea what makes any of you think mods get anything out of premium. Owners get that revenue, not us. It makes absolutely no difference to me how many people buy premium. The only restriction I have is on development - I cannot change site features, I am not a dev. What I do is make rules, and the reason the rules are as they are is because it's the only real fair way for them to be. Value is subjective and ALL trading requires some kinda value disparity or imbalance or nobody would make any profit whatsoever out of it. The reason we only ban users when there is proof of deception and not only for uneven trades is because where to draw that line is arbitrary and ridiculous. Yeah we could slap a 10% value on like outpost did, and then every "shark" would just offer 11%. Nothing would change. The best I can do is ban those who lie and use trust to try to warn traders about people who seem to make a lot of uneven trades. The only way to stop it completely would be to remove or restrict premium further, and as I have said... that isn't my call. I've made it clear multiple times that discussions around this are okay when kept general but not when they become witch hunts. If you make threads to call out specific users, they will be closed. Report if you have proof, if you don't then quit gossiping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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