XenSakura Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Sharkers have been adding new users and providing them exceptionally small offers. One example is Jhej, who scammed a rotation sensation for 160 keys and is selling for 600. This guy deserves a ban, and teeny tiny cat noticed that, so why is nothing being done about it? https://backpack.tf/trust/76561198120467518 EDIT: Just to clarify, I didn't mean a ban from backpack.tf, I meant that the people who have consistently sharked people in the past should be unable to use the premium SEARCH feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmevin Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 "What justice means to us is precisely that the world be filled with the storms of our revenge"—thus they speak to each other. "We shall wreak vengeance and abuse on all whose equals we are not" It's always the same people mentioned when this topic comes up. Their names are mentioned not because of how egregious their actions are, but because they are wealthier and objectively more successful than others. Even if someone expresses these opinions who are not jealous of their success, they are still participating in the self-congratulatory virtue signaling that this community has become accustomed to when these "unspeakable acts of manipulation and extortion!" are forced into the spotlight. When does personal preference come into question? What if the unboxer prefered what they were being offered over what they had unboxed? When does personal responsibility come into question? Is anyone who unboxes an unusual that doesn't sell it for a highly inflated price or to a collector just an incompetent, spineless wimp who cannot help themselves? Who are you to reduce them to such a status? In this case you bring up, you can't say that the unboxer wasn't inexperienced because the hat was tradable immediately, which means that the unboxer had traded for the keys they used to unbox it. The unboxer's inventory also had several unusuals and items that had been purchased from marketplace.tf and classifieds on backpack.tf, so he could not have sold it for that amount due to a lack of knowledge or resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3SP4WN Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Fancy quotes and words aside, I don’t think you understand why mew made this post. I agree with you on the point where in most cases, it’s difficult to draw a line as to what would be considered as a savvy trader and who would be considered a manipulative shark. However, as you said in your post, the same names come up in every sharking discussion, and don’t you think there’s a reason for that? I feel as though in this case the rotation buy is barely acceptable as it’s jhepot’s choice to sell for for whatever he wants to sell. I do agree with mew though that the more action should be taken against those who have clearly abused the system multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTuut Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 How bout we just pan Jjeh Pot altogether /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3SP4WN Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Just now, JayTee said: How bout we just pan Jjeh Pot altogether /thread Throwback to golden BAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmevin Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, R3SP4WN said: However, as you said in your post, the same names come up in every sharking discussion, and don’t you think there’s a reason for that? see: 1 hour ago, Shmevin said: Their names are mentioned not because of how egregious their actions are, but because they are wealthier and objectively more successful than others. I've seen users who's names have never been mentioned in forums, trades, or backpack.tf suggestions. Users who seek out TRULY vulnerable users, employ deceit, and end of up trading next to nothing in terms of value for someone else's item. Yet, they are never mentioned. Why? Not because they are innocent or haven't been doing frequently or for a long time, but because their backpack doesn't show up in the top 100. The only time that a user was publicly shamed who I believed deserve it was this guy because he was caught lying, manipulating, and operating under false pretenses, but even then I do not like mentioning his name because it perpetuates the idea that it is okay to name drop in an attempt to slander. I only see that it is appropriate for a user to be banned, whether it be from Premium or backpack.tf in its entirety, if they 1.) are caught in a boldface lie while trading with a user who truly had no implication of what their item could be worth or 2.) trade items that are worth less than 10% of the items they receive, as was in place for TF2Outpost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSO Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Shmevin said: It's always the same people mentioned when this topic comes up. Their names are mentioned not because of how egregious their actions are, but because they are wealthier and objectively more successful than others. Even if someone expresses these opinions who are not jealous of their success, they are still participating in the self-congratulatory virtue signaling that this community has become accustomed to when these "unspeakable acts of manipulation and extortion!" are forced into the spotlight. You're right, there cannot be any unjust bans of premium search and it IS easier to track the bigger *ahem* extremely unbalanced traders breed of sea creatures, but the repetition of names being bought up is due to the sheer volume of uneven trades they have committed. It isn't like someone in top 100 does one extremely unbalanced trade and gets a casting role to be the lead star in Jaws 5, but rather people who have successfully done so many times especially whenever new hats / effects are released. Furthermore, even amateur traders have no concept of hype-pricing nor how the community puts early values on hats / effects. If the big fish got taken out of the equation a la demo got the bans uhh--which fortunately had a well documented report--then the scrutiny will shift down the tiers as new potential culprits are discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid Rap Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 just let a young boy get some profit wtf lmaoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmevin Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 42 minutes ago, LSO said: You're right, there cannot be any unjust bans of premium search and it IS easier to track the bigger *ahem* extremely unbalanced traders breed of sea creatures, but the repetition of names being bought up is due to the sheer volume of uneven trades they have committed. It isn't like someone in top 100 does one extremely unbalanced trade and gets a casting role to be the lead star in Jaws 5, but rather people who have successfully done so many times especially whenever new hats / effects are released. ... If the big fish got taken out of the equation a la demo got the bans uhh--which fortunately had a well documented report--then the scrutiny will shift down the tiers as new potential culprits are discovered. You make good points, I appreciate you reasoning even if I don't agree the the solution proposed by you and others. A user may regularly perform trades with those who recently unbox high value items and receive certain levels of exposure. Regardless of how big their name is, ultimately they are utilizing a tool offered by backpack.tf and are operating under the rules and parameters set by administration. Teeny Tiny Cat stated those who are found to often participating in these trades will receive a negative trust, JhehJ poT qualified for that action, and action has been taken. Anything other than posting negative trusts is excessive in my eyes. As for your last point, it feels like you just want JhehJ poT to be made an example of, and to set a precedent that backpack.tf will punish users for sharking. Sharking is a vague term that can be defined at the whim of whoever is doing the accusing. Backpack.tf already has clear rules and guidelines in regards to these types of trades, and I don't feel like any change is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond jozu Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Thread's been for more than an hour and its not locked...yeet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSO Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 48 minutes ago, Shmevin said: Teeny Tiny Cat stated those who are found to often participating in these trades will receive a negative trust, JhehJ poT qualified for that action, and action has been taken. Anything other than posting negative trusts is excessive in my eyes. As for your last point, it feels like you just want JhehJ poT to be made an example of, and to set a precedent that backpack.tf will punish users for sharking. Sharking is a vague term that can be defined at the whim of whoever is doing the accusing. Backpack.tf already has clear rules and guidelines in regards to these types of trades, and I don't feel like any change is needed. I appreciate your viewpoints as well. Regarding the only punishment being a phat -trust on the profile: this issue has been talked about a lot. The reality is many victims of sharking aren't traders and therefore wouldn't have a clue about using backpack.tf to check if someone is banned for scamming nor if a moderator has given a -trust for sharking. On some high-godtier unboxes the community rallies and posts the information on unboxers' profiles warning of sharks (nearly 100% someone says to watch out for you-know-who), how to check the price and where to find advice; but this a lot of work for people and some will slip through the cracks like people who find 0-day unboxers with instantly tradeable items. If someone is egregiously offering unbalanced trades with an indisputable amount of trade evidence then at the very least they should have an extended cool-down period to search for new unboxes, or prevented from using premium search entirely. 48 minutes ago, Shmevin said: As for your last point, it feels like you just want JhehJ poT to be made an example of, and to set a precedent that backpack.tf will punish users for sharking. Sharking is a vague term that can be defined at the whim of whoever is doing the accusing. Backpack.tf already has clear rules and guidelines in regards to these types of trades, and I don't feel like any change is needed. I don't want anyone to be made an example of. I simply mentioned someone we all knew as a top shark who was backpack.tf banned* when someone finally provided evidence of price manipulation. *I draw a difference between premium search restricted and backpack.tf banned. I'm not calling for sharking to be a backpack.tf-bannable offense like scamming is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamo Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Since a lot of people doesn't understand the OPs point and missing it completely like a scout using the force-a-nature. What he want is NOT to ban sharkers from the main site BUT restrict them from using Premium. JUST premium. Thanks have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajdislikesyournamingpolicy Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Now I find it almost funny when people defend "sharking", I can see who adds unboxers and who doesn't okay? I add them to warn them about "sharks" as well as to tell them where to get a good price check of their item as well as further. I have been placed in several situations where I could've made 50 keys easy. I won't use forums as a place to drag these people's name into the ground but for a not so obvious hint, people defending "sharking", yeah I saw you on the friends list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graatz Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 What’s the point of restricting sharks from using premium if they can just create alts and repeat? This won’t fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond jozu Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 25 minutes ago, Graatz said: What’s the point of restricting sharks from using premium if they can just create alts and repeat? This won’t fix the problem. Same way of scammers.just have to report and ban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielDee Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Mew2! said: Sharkers have been adding new users and providing them exceptionally small offers. One example is Jhej, who scammed a rotation sensation for 160 keys and is selling for 600. This guy deserves a ban, and teeny tiny cat noticed that, so why is nothing being done about it? https://backpack.tf/trust/76561198120467518 The reason he hasnt been banned is beacuse he is essentially teeny tiny cats employer. If you go banning all the sharks none of the mods, admins, sysops or devs would get paid. Bad situation to be in. Massive conflict of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTuut Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Diamond jozu said: Same way of scammers.just have to report and ban Plus, Backpack profits this way (Them having to rebuy premium) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeg Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 At he least he isn't as bad as demo got stickies... 20 ref for over 200 keys in unusuals? n i c e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajdislikesyournamingpolicy Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 39 minutes ago, Joeg said: At he least he isn't as bad as demo got stickies... 20 ref for over 200 keys in unusuals? n i c e what did you pay for the ge balloonihoodie again? smh soapboxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neinlove Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Shmevin said: "What justice means to us is precisely that the world be filled with the storms of our revenge"—thus they speak to each other. "We shall wreak vengeance and abuse on all whose equals we are not" Imagine quoting Ayn Rand or some shit in an effort to defend scammers on a TF2 trading website. 6 hours ago, Shmevin said: It's always the same people mentioned when this topic comes up. Their names are mentioned not because of how egregious their actions are, but because they are wealthier and objectively more successful than others. Even if someone expresses these opinions who are not jealous of their success, they are still participating in the self-congratulatory virtue signaling that this community has become accustomed to when these "unspeakable acts of manipulation and extortion!" are forced into the spotlight. If you're going to make assumptions like "OH WELL YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS" maybe you should look into the situation more. The same people are brought up every time because they keep sharking unusuals. They haven't received any sort of punishment for continuing to abuse the system and people are upset about it. 6 hours ago, Shmevin said: When does personal preference come into question? What if the unboxer prefered what they were being offered over what they had unboxed? When does personal responsibility come into question? Is anyone who unboxes an unusual that doesn't sell it for a highly inflated price or to a collector just an incompetent, spineless wimp who cannot help themselves? Who are you to reduce them to such a status? Why is offering a fair price for an unusual so hard for you to comprehend? How can a price be inflated if it's literally the only tradeable one in the game? Sharks specifically target users with low value backpacks. Do you think sharks don't know what they're doing? What a terrible argument. 6 hours ago, Shmevin said: In this case you bring up, you can't say that the unboxer wasn't inexperienced because the hat was tradable immediately, which means that the unboxer had traded for the keys they used to unbox it. The unboxer's inventory also had several unusuals and items that had been purchased from marketplace.tf and classifieds on backpack.tf, so he could not have sold it for that amount due to a lack of knowledge or resources. He just had keys before the event. It looks like he doesn't use bp.tf very much, if at all. Since you have him added maybe you should ask him how he feels about getting sharked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeg Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 3 hours ago, AJ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said: what did you pay for the ge balloonihoodie again? smh soapboxes A lot more than 20 ref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond jozu Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I am signing over here ~Signed by Diamond jozu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajdislikesyournamingpolicy Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 52 minutes ago, Diamond jozu said: I am signing over here ~Signed by Diamond jozu Banned off topic, All in all to answer ops question There isn't much one can really do to stop them, im only a one man army, if my time is dragged to have to add unboxers and stop these trades happening in the first place, what happens? They outnumber me, I can't keep up and it's a thankless job. If you can't beat them, well join em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmevin Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Neinlove said: 1. Imagine quoting Ayn Rand or some shit in an effort to defend scammers on a TF2 trading website. 2. If you're going to make assumptions like "OH WELL YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS" maybe you should look into the situation more. The same people are brought up every time because they keep sharking unusuals. They haven't received any sort of punishment for continuing to abuse the system and people are upset about it. 3. Why is offering a fair price for an unusual so hard for you to comprehend? How can a price be inflated if it's literally the only tradeable one in the game? Sharks specifically target users with low value backpacks. Do you think sharks don't know what they're doing? What a terrible argument. 4. He just had keys before the event. It looks like he doesn't use bp.tf very much, if at all. Since you have him added maybe you should ask him how he feels about getting sharked. 1. If you took five seconds to copy and paste the quote into google you will find it was by Friedrich Nietzsche. Imagine doing this and not making yourself look like a fool one sentence into your post. You're conflating sharking with scamming, which further proves that sharking has no widely agreed upon definition. How can you expect admins to enforce a rule that is so loosely defined? 2. I've been involved in or actively monitoring the topic of sharking for over five years, longer than you've had your steam account. Just because my opinion is unpopular doesn't mean I am not knowledgeable on the topic or this case in particular. Users that regularly make unbalanced trades with the unboxers of new unusuals do get punished. They receive a long, almost always permanent, negative trust rating from an admin warning potential traders of their habits. However, if they are found to have lied or heavily manipulated the value of items in order to swindle the other user, they HAVE and WILL receive a ban. 3. "Fair price" is subjective. There are 7 Halloween Effects on the Rotation Sensation that are priced at or below 200 keys. The seller asked for 200 keys, they knew backpack.tf prices, and were comfortable with the trade. What about this trade is not fair? 4. Tradable keys were an indication that they were familiar with trading, which is supported by the several items in his inventory obtained by trading. Just because they are not trading and visiting backpack.tf everyday doesn't mean they aren't knowledgeable. 2 hours ago, AJ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said: There isn't much one can really do to stop them, im only a one man army, if my time is dragged to have to add unboxers and stop these trades happening in the first place, what happens? They outnumber me, I can't keep up and it's a thankless job. If you can't beat them, well join em It's interesting how everyone wants a few specific individuals to be banned because they found success using a service offered by backpack.tf, but can't be bothered to help out these "victims" because its not worth their time, they don't get to flex their ego publicly, and don't receive praise or admiration for their efforts. Most of you are out for blood, that's all it really is. I like where you're going with that last statement, though. If more people added those who recently unboxed an unusual, the competition for the those hats will go up, leading to it being sold for a higher price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSO Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, Shmevin said: I like where you're going with that last statement, though. If more people added those who recently unboxed an unusual, the competition for the those hats will go up, leading to it being sold for a higher price. You're right, there is fierce competition to buy from these unboxers for a low as possible price and unfortunately certain users who get in touch with unknowledgeable unboxers before others tell them that other people who try to add them are going to try scam them; therefore they block any new invites to offer or warn them about this method. This happened when someone I know got really salty about a new unboxer taking a far worse offer than he offered and was blocked by the person for being a "scammer". The item was then sold for a horrible exchange to one of the common culprits whom I forget at this point. So the end result is that there are times when there is very limited to no competition if someone spins their lies well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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