Bernie Sanders supporters: why do you support Bernie Sanders?

[The One]

And I might as well unload this rant while I'm here.

As much of a Bernie supporter as I am, I can't say the same about his vocal fanbase.

 

Often labeled as "berniebots", these are the people that like Bernie Sanders so much that they refuse to accept anyone else. These are the people that demonize Hillary Clinton for not being liberal enough, even though they're on the same side in the end. These are the people that share around clearly right-wing articles from Fox and Blaze that demonize Hillary Clinton and fail to realize that they're sabotaging their own party.

Compromise is unfortunately an important part of the US political system, and some of these Bernie fans are simply unable to compromise, even if they have to ruin their own party's candidates to do so. I worry that if Hillary gets nominated, some Bernie supporters will refuse to vote for her, ending in a Democratic loss.

 

So I'll say it once and I'll say it again: If you're a Bernie Sanders supporter but Hillary Clinton gets nominated, you get your sorry ass to the voting booths on November 8th and check her name off.

 

Yeah, especially the younger voters, as they tend to be impetuous and impulsive. 

[The One]

1. He is the most truthful candidate, he has pretested multiple wars in the middle east at a time when that was political suicide. And campaigned for racial equality when that was very unpopular as well.

2. He's planning on going after corporate America to get us out of our national debt instead of squeezing as much money as possible out of average Americans.

3. There are no other viable democratic candidates. Clinton has changed her stance on gay marriage since it has become a more popular idea, (proves she'll say whatever the polls want her to say) and the Benghazi incident proves she's both lazy and irresponsible. 

 

 

See, this is why I posted this thread. Those (and many other arguments I have seen) all seem like fine reasons, but they are actually insubstantial.

 

He's the most truthful candidate and Clinton is not. So what? Why should I care that he's truthful? This is a presidential election, not a truthfulness contest. How is he being truthful going to benefit me? 

 

And he's going after the corporations and not squeeze money out of the average American. Cool. How is he going to do this? And who's squeezing money out of average Americans in the first place? What effects will his actions and policies have? 

 

I'm being critical here, but the questions can go on. Often, it seems to me that people like him because "he's a nice guy" who "stands for the 'people'" to fight against "the evil 1%." 

[The One]

They also might like Bernie's policies and how he's trying to make everything free for everyone (no matter how impossible that is)

 

He appeals to the younger people because of all the free stuff like college, heathcare, stuff that'll cost an arm and a leg. 

 

 

While he is probably the "best of the worse" most of his supporters jump on his bandwagon when they hear that he is fighting for free education 

 

Education is never free it comes from taxes, schools and all resources come from taxes. 

 

 

See, that's the thing.

 

Nothing is free. I keep on hearing people say he's going to provide free health care and education and whatnot (like the socialist Scandinavian countries), but who's paying? If Sanders is planning to finance via cutting budgets in other sectors, which ones will be affected? 

[Professional Map Painter]

Odd ... I could have SWORN the economic recession got it's roots by the abuses of the big banks ... kinda, like, ya know, the thing Bernie is AGAINST?

Except that the countries with (or who had) socialist oriented governments were hit the hardest by the recession. Brown, for one, sold off all our gold and completely devalued private sector pensions whilst increasing spending, which did not help at all - and neither have successive bailouts helped Greece, where the populace actually voted to abandon the Euro (which could have drastically improved their situation).

 

haters gonna hate and all

 

Yes, for valid reasons. I think most people would want to actually research who could be taking over from Obama. I'd still prefer Sanders over Trump any day of the week though.

[♠Derpeh♤]

Odd ... I could have SWORN the economic recession got it's roots by the abuses of the big banks ... kinda, like, ya know, the thing Bernie is AGAINST?

 

Erm what? the Global recession was more due to the greed of Americans rather than the banks, the banks were basically a middleman and loaned out money. Sure it's easy to blame the banks but it was the American people who kept taking out loans they couldnt pay them back.

Basic summary: Americans took out loans to buy a house years ago > house prices suddenly jumped and they found themselves with much larger wealth than anticipated > Enabled them to take out even larger loans using their now more expensive house as collateral > spent recklessly > House rising burst > defaulted on loans > ditched the house to banks to effectively nullify the loan (as collateral) > property market crashed even more due to increase in supply > causing a ripple in every market > dragged everyone else into it.

[Hyperqube]

And he's going after the corporations and not squeeze money out of the average American. Cool. How is he going to do this? And who's squeezing money out of average Americans in the first place?

An example? There's a youtube flick somewhere of Bernie (as senator, I presume), asking some official the question: Why is the same medicine in Canada 5 times cheaper?

 

 

Except that the countries with (or who had) socialist oriented governments were hit the hardest by the recession

Again, an odd statement, because I live in a country who survived the recession quite well

 

Erm what? the Global recession was more due to the greed of Americans rather than the banks, the banks were basically a middleman and loaned out money

What you describe is the the trigger. The main problem wasn't that a few banks went bankrupt, it was that they dragged everyone else with them. (esp. the economic recession form a european point of view: we didn't have money invested in the american housing market, but we did have ties to american banks)

[Hyperqube]

which any half decent educated person can see which is literally "we are going some how going to pull money magically out of our asses to give free shit for everyone!" and focus on things which are actually plausible.

Yeah ... see ... problem: I got a masters degree. Does that count as "half decent educated person" ?

 

Because, what he proposes, does sounds feasable to me ( // compared to my country)

 

(1) money out of politics // check

(2) decent minimum wage // nearly twice the poverty line for a full time job

(3) no entrence fees for collages for the first 4 years // (yearly) college fee = 2 weeks work at minimum wage

(4) decent healthcare for everyone // one of the best health care systems of europe, and all inclusive

(5) fight climate change // check: significantly better laws against climate change then the US

 

(6/7/8) women's rights, LGBT rights, and racial justice // I dunno how this is with my country (I suppose good, but perhaps others will disagree) , but these things don't cost significant money

...

 

The idea that people want to argue his ideas are not feasable, while there's an abundance of countries where they are implemented symelar plans and do seem to work ...

 

 

Bernie 's plans won't work

Bernie 's plans won't work

Bernie 's plans won't work

[Sniper Noob]

 

 

Yeah ... see ... problem: I got a masters degree. Does that count as "half decent educated person" ?

 

Because, what he proposes, does sounds feasable to me ( // compared to my country)

 

(1) money out of politics // check

(2) decent minimum wage // nearly twice the poverty line for a full time job

(3) no entrence fees for collages for the first 4 years // (yearly) college fee = 2 weeks work at minimum wage

(4) decent healthcare for everyone // one of the best health care systems of europe, and all inclusive

(5) fight climate change // check: significantly better laws against climate change then the US

 

(6/7/8) women's rights, LGBT rights, and racial justice // I dunno how this is with my country (I suppose good, but perhaps others will disagree) , but these things don't cost significant money

...

 

The idea that people want to argue his ideas are not feasable, while there's an abundance of countries where they are implemented symelar plans and do seem to work ...

 

 

Bernie 's plans won't work

Bernie 's plans won't work

Bernie 's plans won't work

 

This. I keep seeing "Bernie's plans won't work" or "Bernie's plans are unfeasible," and yet his plans are borrowed from places where they already work.

[funkle]

This. I keep seeing "Bernie's plans won't work" or "Bernie's plans are unfeasible," and yet his plans are borrowed from places where they already work.

Just because it works somewhere else does not mean it will work here.

Just because it works somewhere else does not mean it will work here.

Just because it works somewhere else does not mean it will work here.

Just because it works somewhere else does not mean it will work here.

[Captain Caboose]

I will vote for Bernie only if he has a kickass VP.

 

I believe I have mentioned why his VP is important, haven't I?

[The One]

 

(2) decent minimum wage // nearly twice the poverty line for a full time job

(3) no entrence fees for collages for the first 4 years // (yearly) college fee = 2 weeks work at minimum wage

(4) decent healthcare for everyone // one of the best health care systems of europe, and all inclusive

(5) fight climate change // check: significantly better laws against climate change then the US

 

 

Who's paying?

[Captain Caboose]

Who's paying?

Taxpayers, that's where the young people don't see the hole in Bernie's campaign.

[funkle]

Taxpayers, that's where the young people don't see the hole in Bernie's campaign.

Taxes cant pay for all of that. There is no reasonable tax to pay for everything.

[Captain Caboose]

Taxes cant pay for all of that. There is no reasonable tax to pay for everything.

Exactly, Bernie hasn't explained how he plans to do that.

 

If it were taxpayers alone, think Obamacare x4, Obamacare costs taxpayers millions more than what they should be paying regularly. 

so unless Bernie can work a miracle out of thin air, he's SOL from Generation X.

[♠Derpeh♤]

-snip-

 

The idea that people want to argue his ideas are not feasable, while there's an abundance of countries where they are implemented symelar plans and do seem to work ...

 

 

Again his goals are good and I quite like it except his method of getting to those goals are not feasible in every sense of the word. Everything he is trying to do will cost a fuck load of money and that's money he apparently is going to acquire through larger taxing on companies, closing loopholes in the tax system and lowering the top tax brackets which wont be nearly enough to achieve what he wants. Decrease in military spending which is awesome except it needs to be done gradually over many years to avoid employment issues...etc so that isnt a viable source either. So unless he can shit massive amounts of gold from his ass it's unfeasible.

 

Not to mention the huge the national debt and he literally is going to make it worse by trying to splash money which he doesnt have everywhere... His goals are feasible, his proposed methods to get to those goals are unfeasible. Also I dont think he has any serious consideration on the effect on long term employment with all the things he is trying to do :L

[Twins_Mercury]

I guess people are forgetting about all the times Bernie has talked about imposing a tax on Wall Street speculation. From what I understand this means placing a tax on transactions like stock trading, which is where a lot of the richest people (i.e. Warren Buffett) make their money, not a job. With the enormous amounts of money they've got flowing around even a small tax of half a percent could fund a lot of things. 

 

As for whether what Bernie proposes will work or not, you can say that about every single candidate. A president isn't a king, there's checks and balances in place that can prevent a president from doing things, especially if congress is dominated by the opposing party. That aside though, I believe he will damn well try his hardest to do what he speaks about. He's got a good, consistent political record doing several different political jobs for Vermont and his stance on issues has not changed.

[The Penguins]

I guess people are forgetting about all the times Bernie has talked about imposing a tax on Wall Street speculation. From what I understand this means placing a tax on transactions like stock trading, which is where a lot of the richest people (i.e. Warren Buffett) make their money, not a job. With the enormous amounts of money they've got flowing around even a small tax of half a percent could fund a lot of things. 

 

As for whether what Bernie proposes will work or not, you can say that about every single candidate. A president isn't a king, there's checks and balances in place that can prevent a president from doing things, especially if congress is dominated by the opposing party. That aside though, I believe he will damn well try his hardest to do what he speaks about. He's got a good, consistent political record doing several different political jobs for Vermont and his stance on issues has not changed.

Unlike someone *cough* Clinton *cough*

 

But seriously the American people are stuck between a rock and a hard place every election

[Hyperqube]

Just because it works somewhere else does not mean it will work here.

 

Totally and utterly irrelevant. No plan has 100% chance of succes.

 

Who's paying?

Taxpayers

On the taxpayers who pay:

• we also got a scaled tax system (rich people pay more then poor people),
• decent corporate taxes.
• the equvalent of a tax on wallstreet (like taxes on stock trading).
• money out of politics
  • big pharma lobbies so much you guys pay like x3 what I pay for prescription drugs...

    (if both healthcare systems keep prices reasonable, mine needs pay significantly less, which costs less, which require less taxes to pay for that)

  • our spending is based on laws that benefit society (better income for the poorest if they are in trouble; tax breaks for corporations if we need more jobs) - not for the benefit of who donated most

But, bottomline, all that is trying to fog the issue:

• "it's not feasable"
• "but we do it"
• "I don't like how you do it"

Not liking how it's done =/= not possible.

 

 

 

 

 

@Derpeh: Decrease on militairy spending is actually the only problem I have with Bernie: if it's not done smartly (though I presume advisors will point that out to him), less U.S. militairy will benefit ISIS & others

[funkle]

On the taxpayers who pay:

• we also got a scaled tax system (rich people pay more then poor people),
• decent corporate taxes.
• the equvalent of a tax on wallstreet (like taxes on stock trading).
• money out of politics
  • big pharma lobbies so much you guys pay like x3 what I pay for prescription drugs...

    (if both healthcare systems keep prices reasonable, mine needs pay significantly less, which costs less, which require less taxes to pay for that)

  • our spending is based on laws that benefit society (better income for the poorest if they are in trouble; tax breaks for corporations if we need more jobs) - not for the benefit of who donated most

But, bottomline, all that is trying to fog the issue:

• "it's not feasable"
• "but we do it"
• "I don't like how you do it"

Not liking how it's done =/= not possible.

"There is no reasonable tax that pays for this all."

Reasonable meaning something everyone is willing to pay once it's all said and done. Taxing Wall St. at this time would be such a awful idea. It's going towards a bear market now that investors are becoming so hesitant to put their money in stocks compared to other investments. Citigroup put out into the open something that is on everyone's mind lately, and that's the idea of there being a global recession sometime in the very near future. Raising taxes during a recession speaks for itself. All in all, these are just a few of the things that I think Bernie is just totally oblivious to. 

[Sniper Noob]

 

 

Totally and utterly irrelevant. No plan has 100% chance of succes.

 

On the taxpayers who pay:

• we also got a scaled tax system (rich people pay more then poor people),
• decent corporate taxes.
• the equvalent of a tax on wallstreet (like taxes on stock trading).
• money out of politics
  • big pharma lobbies so much you guys pay like x3 what I pay for prescription drugs...

    (if both healthcare systems keep prices reasonable, mine needs pay significantly less, which costs less, which require less taxes to pay for that)

  • our spending is based on laws that benefit society (better income for the poorest if they are in trouble; tax breaks for corporations if we need more jobs) - not for the benefit of who donated most

But, bottomline, all that is trying to fog the issue:

• "it's not feasable"
• "but we do it"
• "I don't like how you do it"

Not liking how it's done =/= not possible.

 

 

 

 

 

@Derpeh: Decrease on militairy spending is actually the only problem I have with Bernie: if it's not done smartly (though I presume advisors will point that out to him), less U.S. militairy will benefit ISIS & others

 

 

 

It's also worth noting that several of his ideas that would be paid for by taxpayers (single payer health care, etc.) could actually be cheaper than the system we currently have. So even though "free healthcare for everyone" sounds big and expensive (which it is), you have to compare it to the healthcare system we have now. 

[Twins_Mercury]

I'm sure some people would rather pay an extra 6% tax than have to worry about medical bills and the possibility of losing almost everything to a terrible accident.

[[Unactive Account]]

I'm canadian but if I was an american voter I would vote for bernie

 

Why?

 

• He appeals to young people
• He wants to make school cheaper
• He is a socialist
• Free or cheaper healthcare
• Taxation of the rich

TL;DR

 

He wants to help the middle class and poor and he wants to screw rich people like Geel9 (no offence but your rich)

 

Feel the Bern!

[Professional Map Painter]

Feel the Bern!

I guess some people just want the world to Bern.

[Corey]

"bernie sanders' dank meme stash" look it up on facebook shit is so cash

[Hyperqube]

"There is no reasonable tax that pays for this all."

Reasonable meaning something everyone is willing to pay once it's all said and done.

what you define here is inherently impossible

 

Even if you tax only 10%, there will be those who want 9%

And if you tax only 9%, there will be those who want 8%

...

 

Taxing Wall St. at this time would be such a awful idea. It's going towards a bear market now that investors are becoming so hesitant to put their money in stocks compared to other investments. Citigroup put out into the open something that is on everyone's mind lately, and that's the idea of there being a global recession sometime in the very near future. Raising taxes during a recession speaks for itself. All in all, these are just a few of the things that I think Bernie is just totally oblivious to.

 

Citi is the leading global bank. Citi strives to create the best outcomes for our clients and customers with financial solutions that are simple, creative and ...

-- first line on their site

 

THOSE guys says we shouldn't be taxing Wall St. ? Color me shocked.

 

 

And yeah, "Raising taxes during a recession speaks for itself" ... but there's no recession right now.

You can't argue you should't raise taxes during a recession, and you shouldn't raise taxes where there isn't one. That's just trying to cover up the fact you're against raising taxes.

 

(news flash - there always might be an other recession on the horizon).

 

It's also worth noting that several of his ideas that would be paid for by taxpayers (single payer health care, etc.) could actually be cheaper than the system we currently have.

Indeed: for instance, it's the first sub-point I noted of in "money out of politics".