Cookie Monster Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 ~snip The point where you said "Good ENOUGH" should have been where you asked a Outpost admin whether he is okay to trade with or not. As if you are not 100% positive then you should not do the trade. I am not sure why people would even trust him enough to do paypal deals when he is that new to trading. On another note, The reason Amazing is not banned is because that trade occurred before he was first warned by outpost.(I made the first report against him for trading with a marked scammer) For others not banned I can not speak for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankingBot Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Because making a new account is impossible... and that's what steamrep,fog,outpost is for detecting obvious scammer alts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Дебра Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 and that's what steamrep,fog,outpost is for detecting obvious scammer alts But there is no criteria for a acc to be obvious. Are traders supposed to just ask like "Hey, are you penek?" and hope he tells the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankingBot Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 But there is no criteria for a acc to be obvious. Are traders supposed to just ask like "Hey, are you penek?" and hope he tells the truth? you didn't say the same back here http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/19591-how-to-determine-scammers-alts/ http://forums.steamrep.com/pages/faq/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Nick♥ Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 The point where you said "Good ENOUGH" should have been where you asked a Outpost admin whether he is okay to trade with or not. As if you are not 100% positive then you should not do the trade. I am not sure why people would even trust him enough to do paypal deals when he is that new to trading. On another note, The reason Amazing is not banned is because that trade occurred before he was first warned by outpost.(I made the first report against him for trading with a marked scammer) For others not banned I can not speak for that. Should everyone just add the OutPost mods ask if its ok to trade with every PayPal buyer/seller? Should I ask my mommy too? How about the police? I need to go ask everyone if its ok to trade with everyone I encounter, right? Also, new to trading? How do you know that? Not everyone in the world is a moron and there are other economies out there. People can do research. Runescape still has an economy. WoW has one too. I think League has one. TF2 and CSGO are not the only economis, people can transfer for the money or fun. You know you only feel like this person is an "obvious alt" now because other people are getting banned. If I saw high profile traders and an Outpost mod trust this person, then why shouldn't I? Better than me have trusted. It only takes a few tens of hours to realize you want items for the game to customize your character. Customization is something people enjoy, even if it takes money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Дебра Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 you didn't say the same back here http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/19591-how-to-determine-scammers-alts/ http://forums.steamrep.com/pages/faq/ Hi I'm new what does X sells more than Y and X is worth more than Y? Economies are hard. You really can't expect every newbie to not understand what something being worth more than something means. You can't expect every newbie to be autistic. You can't expect every newbie to be unable to research and most importantly you can't shut out newbies from the game. The newfags of today are the community admins of tomorrow. Well at least they would be if you didn't tell them to fuck off when they try to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haloburner Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Howdy all. Oozy, I'd like to start off by saying that I wish you had waited to talk to me like you had intended to do before going off on the forums. I've been busy traveling and dealing with other things IRL that take precedence over trading. That being said, I think you've done the right thing so far. To answer your question; No! Outpost mods cannot get away with breaking the rules, just like any other user! I will be spending the normal 2 week duration not opening, re-opening any trades, nor will I be posting on any trades. That being said, however, I will not receive an official ban, since I would not be able to handle ticket reports. This was discussed internally by Outpost Staff and this was the verdict concluded. Now, onto a few other things. I traded with this user long before I was even offered the position of being a moderator on TF2Outpost (I've been staff on the site about 2 weeks or so). At the risk of sounding like an old widow remembering a lost sailor-lover, I'll describe the profile I saw when he added me to trade. He was high-level on steam, with a large TF2 and CSGO inventory, decent amount of hours in both games, over 20 games in the account, and 5 or 6 positive comments on his cash rep thread, a couple of which involved rather large sums of goods traded. The only thing out of place was the creation date of the account, but there have been plenty of people I've met that come to me and BUY keys from me with fairly low hours (<150) in TF2 and an account only around 6-7 months old; most of them want to get into trading and start off strong with a large handful of discounted keys! So I thought nothing of it when someone came to me to sell keys that was beyond even what I would consider in the "new" stages of trading. I am in complete agreement that the account looked to be legitimate. If this is the only thing that looked to be questionable, it is the one and only part that raises alarm according to the Official SteamRep FAQ states: What is considered an "obvious" scammer alternate account (alt)? Scammers frequently make new Steam accounts (or buy Steam accounts) to avoid bans placed on their main account. An obvious scammer alt is a trader who has a great deal of knowledge of the values of items and the Steam economy, yet has a very recent Steam account or very low hours played in TF2. Trading with these accounts is not permitted.The following clues help identify an obvious scammer alt:​ Low hours of TF2/DotA with a deep knowledge of item values New Steam start date, but eager to trade high value items Private backpack, and with no rep threads Quickselling fresh items that are less than a day old in their backpack Nearly empty game backpack except for a few high value items with very recent history Note, trading with newbies is not discouraged-- it is only when your conversation and their vital statistics make it obvious that they surpass the trading abilities of a newbie, which usually means they are an alternate account of an experienced trader. It is unfortunate that so many people were "tricked" by this "obvious" scammer alt. I will continue to do my best in trying to help the community by talking over the bans with the other staff members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuuko-San Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 -snip- Good to hear your side of it. It wasn't an OBVIOUS alt. That's the thing that annoys me. Outpost and SR needs a better description and outline of what consistutes obvious, outpost especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Should everyone just add the OutPost mods ask if its ok to trade with every PayPal buyer/seller? Should I ask my mommy too? How about the police? I need to go ask everyone if its ok to trade with everyone I encounter, right? Also, new to trading? How do you know that? Not everyone in the world is a moron and there are other economies out there. People can do research. Runescape still has an economy. WoW has one too. I think League has one. TF2 and CSGO are not the only economis, people can transfer for the money or fun. You know you only feel like this person is an "obvious alt" now because other people are getting banned. If I saw high profile traders and an Outpost mod trust this person, then why shouldn't I? Better than me have trusted. It only takes a few tens of hours to realize you want items for the game to customize your character. Customization is something people enjoy, even if it takes money. Technically you can trade with who ever the hell you want. You are using third party server and sites that are enforcing these rules. You can still trade when marked.. I know some scammers who still trade like normal after being marked. Instead of asking outpost mods how about posting on the steamrep forums and wait for a mod to respond? Or how about fog forums? Im not sure about asking your mom or the police as I am not sure how active they are in tf2 trading but hey if they are good with trading why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Nick♥ Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Technically you can trade with who ever the hell you want. You are using third party server and sites that are enforcing these rules. You can still trade when marked.. I know some scammers who still trade like normal after being marked. Instead of asking outpost mods how about posting on the steamrep forums and wait for a mod to respond? Or how about fog forums? Im not sure about asking your mom or the police as I am not sure how active they are in tf2 trading but hey if they are good with trading why not? I can already tell you without even have done that there will be a fuck ton of people telling me the person would be trust worthy simply because frost, gren, and an outpost mod trusted that person as well as the high level steam account. We both know it. You keep saying otherwise even though you know it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I can already tell you without even have done that there will be a fuck ton of people telling me the person would be trust worthy simply because frost, gren, and an outpost mod trusted that person as well as the high level steam account. We both know it. You keep saying otherwise even though you know it too. Yep, Frost who traded with 3 scammers/scammer alts before this trade occurred. makes me really think that who ever he trades with next is trustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Дебра Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Yep, Frost who traded with 3 scammers/scammer alts before this trade occurred. makes me really think that who ever he trades with next is trustworthy. And in the time it took him to trade with those 3 scammer alts he traded with 1000s of clean, friendly traders, turning away 100s of scammers in the process? See the problem here? That frost is a HUMAN. Humans make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 And in the time it took him to trade with those 3 scammer alts he traded with 1000s of clean, friendly traders, turning away 100s of scammers in the process? See the problem here? That frost is a HUMAN. Humans make mistakes. Yes a mistake once or twice not what has turned out to be 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Nick♥ Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Yep, Frost who traded with 3 scammers/scammer alts before this trade occurred. makes me really think that who ever he trades with next is trustworthy. Are you implying humans are perfect? Are you implying humans know everything in the world? You must be really dense if you think human imperfection is not a thing. In the real world people trade millions of dollars and even the real world "scammers" trade with these legitimate companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Дебра Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Yes a mistake once or twice not what has turned out to be 5. Did you know the amount of mistakes one makes scales with the amount of opportunities to make said mistakes? If someone makes 10 trades a week he has much less chance of trading with a scammer. If he makes closer to 1000 per week he will have 100x as many chances of making a mistake. Until I see evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that he is KNOWINGLY doing it he is a fair, clean trader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Are you implying humans are perfect? Are you implying humans know everything in the world? You must be really dense if you think human imperfection is not a thing. In the real world people trade millions of dollars and even the real world "scammers" trade with these legitimate companies. Where did I say humans are perfect? If you repeat a mistake 5 times then its no longer a mistake. Look at debug.mode he has most likely done more trades then frost and has not "screwed up" 5 times. Also In no way am I saying that SR and Tf2op shouldnt change their rules. As earlier I was talking to Penguin The Fluffy. He came up with this great point that Alts are being harder to catch now due to there are multiple games that involve trading and cross game trading is getting popular. Did you know the amount of mistakes one makes scales with the amount of opportunities to make said mistakes? If someone makes 10 trades a week he has much less chance of trading with a scammer. If he makes closer to 1000 per week he will have 100x as many chances of making a mistake. Until I see evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that he is KNOWINGLY doing it he is a fair, clean trader. He is being careless is my point whether you agree with me or not . Edit: Time to go to bed. 2;20 Am is past my bedtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Дебра Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 He is being careless is my point whether you agree with me or not . It's not careless to fuck up in 0.02% of his trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Nick♥ Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 · Hidden by polar, August 12, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by polar, August 12, 2015 - No reason given Where did I say humans are perfect? If you repeat a mistake 5 times then its no longer a mistake. Look at debug.mode he has most likely done more trades then frost and has not "screwed up" 5 times. Also In no way am I saying that SR and Tf2op shouldnt change their rules. As earlier I was talking to Penguin The Fluffy. He came up with this great point that Alts are being harder to catch now due to there are multiple games that involve trading and cross game trading is getting popular. He is being careless is my point whether you agree with me or not . Edit: Time to go to bed. 2;20 Am is past my bedtime. I can see you are only talking about frost. How about gren and the Outpost mod? How about them? Fucking hell, how about all the other people that traded with him? Link to comment
Cookie Monster Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 · Hidden by polar, August 12, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by polar, August 12, 2015 - No reason given I can see you are only talking about frost. How about gren and the Outpost mod? How about them? Fucking hell, how about all the other people that traded with him? The outpost mod as you can read in his earlier post he was warned. Gren was warned previously and should have been more careful. Also your vulgar language is not necessary to talk about this situation.. Goodnight Again Pal. Link to comment
Cookie Monster Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 It's not careless to fuck up in 0.02% of his trades. Its careless when he is thoroughly checking them to do paypal deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Nick♥ Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Its careless when he is thoroughly checking them to do paypal deals. Must be careless for those real life legitimate companies trading with "scammers" too, right? I mean, they check all thousands of people buying their merchandise while moving around millions, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Дебра Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Its careless when he is thoroughly checking them to do paypal deals. How thoroughly do you expect him to background check? Should he even go as far as requiring them to provide ID just to be sure? Should he check every single item to make sure none have gone anywhere near a scammer? Should he check the accounts he got the items from too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Must be careless for those real life legitimate companies trading with "scammers" too, right? I mean, they check all thousands of people buying their merchandise while moving around millions, right? Except this is a video-game. There are rules on third party sites. If you dont follow them you deal with what comes forth. Whether people agree or disagree with their bans it honestly does not matter. The Owner can make what ever rules he wants. He is allowing you to use his service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 · Hidden by polar, August 12, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by polar, August 12, 2015 - No reason given How thoroughly do you expect him to background check? Should he even go as far as requiring them to provide ID just to be sure? Should he check every single item to make sure none have gone anywhere near a scammer? Should he check the accounts he got the items from too? I expect people to look at how recently the account was made. Checking where the items came from is easy also. You can always ask for an ID but thats a little creepy Debra. Link to comment
Дебра Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Except this is a video-game. There are rules on third party sites. If you dont follow them you deal with what comes forth. Whether people agree or disagree with their bans it honestly does not matter. The Owner can make what ever rules he wants. He is allowing you to use his service. Exactly. This is a video game. Designed for enjoyment. I gain no enjoyment out of treating this as a serious business, scared of the 'authorities'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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