Forb Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0night Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 read 1 page of this thread, it was slightly better than predicted but ultimately irrelevant because socially awkward nerds will always have a pretty limited impact on real social lives anyway so i'm not even too mad lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0night Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 also you're massively ignorant if you think that feminism is outdated or irrelevant or wrong because some women have it better than some men or that in some extremely limited ways men are less privileged than women. i mean acid is thrown in the face of women who defy their husbands in certain places on earth. women are less well represented than men called 'dave' or whatever in CEO positions in the UK. women are disproportionately raped, abused, harrassed, globally. obviously there is a problem, and by that i mean there is an extremely wide range of problems. failure to acknowledge that is sheer ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poorest scrub Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 also you're massively ignorant if you think that feminism is outdated or irrelevant or wrong because some women have it better than some men or that in some extremely limited ways men are less privileged than women. i mean acid is thrown in the face of women who defy their husbands in certain places on earth. women are less well represented than men called 'dave' or whatever in CEO positions in the UK. women are disproportionately raped, abused, harrassed, globally. obviously there is a problem, and by that i mean there is an extremely wide range of problems. failure to acknowledge that is sheer ignorance. also you're massively ignorant if you think that feminism is outdated or irrelevant or wrong because some women have it better than some men or that in some extremely limited ways men are less privileged than women. i mean acid is thrown in the face of women who defy their husbands in certain places on earth. women are less well represented than men called 'dave' or whatever in CEO positions in the UK. women are disproportionately raped, abused, harrassed, globally. obviously there is a problem, and by that i mean there is an extremely wide range of problems. failure to acknowledge that is sheer ignorance. i cant tell if your just troling or actuall being serious, but i will give you the benfit of the doubt and assume that youre not. Your first part i dont see where you made that adsumption about how we say feminism id outdated or irrelevant because some women have it better than some men. So onto the points: 1. You claim that acid is thrown into the face of wives rhat defied their husband. That is true but what has feminism done to help with that. Actually what has feminism done in the middle east would be a better question. 2.you want equal representation Well, so what? Men and women are wired differnetly biologically and it just so happens that men tend to take on the more physically demanding work and leadership roles while women tend to take on the more caretaker role. This can be seen when there are more female nurses. Are you suggesting we force more women into these roles regardless of merit or their interests. You also conveniently left out the fact that there are men in coal mining and street sweeping industries. Should we force more women into that too for equal representation. Or how bout we put more women in jail. After all 90 percent prison inmates are male. 3. Women are disporpotionally raped abused, harassed globally. Lol. Yeah that is true because there is literally no way for a woman to rape( obviously bs) according to law and when an attemp lt to include that into legislature( surprise surprise) feminists are against that. As for abused and harassed please define " harassment" and " abuse" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin the Chicken God Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 -snip- just going to advise coolrocks to use his better judgement here when deciding whether or not to respond to this, and if he does respond in what manner to do it in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poorest scrub Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poorest scrub Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The fact is that especially these days there are a lot of male feminists out there. More then there ever have been. So you're just treating it like the whole party is made up exclusively of women, and that therefor feminism as a whole should focus more on women's rights. But since there are a lot of men involved, and the focus is still almost solely on one gender, that's where the problem comes from. Yes it was a pretty good speech she made. But, did you consider there's no 'femisnist top', no leadership what decides to be handled next or what the focus will be. It's determined by the social platform: The problems that get made publicly, given momentum, etc ... are the focus of the group. The 'silent masses' are important, but the people who speak up are the ones who determine focus. That's what I said when I refered to Women shouldn't stop talking openly about injustice against women, but men shoud start talking openly about the injustice against men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Why? because ... i cant tell if your just troling or actuall being serious, but i will give you the benfit of the doubt and assume that youre not. ... right back at ya 1. You claim that acid is thrown into the face of wives rhat defied their husband. That is true but what has feminism done to help with that. well now, this is exaclty why I advocate perspectiveness - because that's just like asking what the anti-racism movement has done for, for example, the shooting of micheal Brown.The answer is the same: at least 2 things: it's responsable for making the event more exception then rule on the event it self, it created moral outrage, in hopes to influence the people & government to condemn the event, and work towards a better situation where this doesn't happen note how these answers both apply to feminism, the anti-racism movment, ... 2.you want equal representationWell, so what? Men and women are wired differnetly biologically and it just so happens that men tend to take on the more physically demanding work and leadership roles except, no. link Perhaps unsurprisingly, the results suggested that the culture of the organization makes a difference: in traditionally male dominated, masculine organizations like government or the military, male leaders were more effective , while women triumphed in more ‘feminine’ environments like social services and education . However, under the vague umbrella term ‘business’, female leaders ALSO came out on top. Like racism, 'differnetly biologically' isn't an excuse to explain statistics it's not because more X have a certain position, that X is better in it. That's post hoc reasoning. Even if X is better, it's not because X is better in it, that X is significantly better in it - in such a way it explains high discrepencies 3. Women are disporpotionally raped abused, harassed globally. Lol.Yeah that is true because there is literally no way for a woman to rape( obviously bs) according to law Arguing that women are disporpotionally raped, because of the definition of rape by the law ... that's just rather putting your head in the sand, then actually adressing the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Map Painter Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 it's responsable for making the event more exception then rule on the event it self, it created moral outrage, in hopes to influence the people & government to condemn the event, and work towards a better situation where this doesn't happen Except it's targeted at a Western audience (i.e not the majority of people who are suffering from this sort of abuse), moral outrage is ineffective when the foreign government won't comply - and even then tumblr is a good example of feminism not appealing to even a moderate Western audience (tumblr is full of radicals). Then again, preventing these sorts of situations would be as hard as convincing Iran/North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Azoff Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 But, did you consider there's no 'femisnist top', no leadership what decides to be handled next or what the focus will be. It's determined by the social platform: The problems that get made publicly, given momentum, etc ... are the focus of the group. The 'silent masses' are important, but the people who speak up are the ones who determine focus. That's what I said when I refered to Women shouldn't stop talking openly about injustice against women, but men shoud start talking openly about the injustice against men. So by "people that speak up" you mean only women, and by "silent masses" you mean men. It's unfortunate that it has to be this way. The problem is, men aren't going to start talking until they're shown that their rights matter to, and the only people that can show them this are feminists. Until it's clear that the focus really is equality, men have no reason to think that their want for equal rights will be met with anything more then the usual hate or neglect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted July 17, 2015 Administrators Share Posted July 17, 2015 Then again, preventing these sorts of situations would be as hard as convincing Iran/North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons. Don't read the news, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcarona Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I think the idea of having to have people label themselves as femenists is stupid because female equality should be a basic thing in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Except it's targeted at a Western audience (i.e not the majority of people who are suffering from this sort of abuse), moral outrage is ineffective when the foreign government won't comply - and even then tumblr is a good example of feminism not appealing to even a moderate Western audience (tumblr is full of radicals). Then again, preventing these sorts of situations would be as hard as convincing Iran/North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons. less effective, yes. but not ineffective. western moral outrages pressures western moral politics. and countries can influences/pressure eachother moral outrage can lead to boycotting; which again, puts pressure on foreign countries it's not much - but it's better then nothing. Until it's clear that the focus really is equality The problem isn't that this isn't clear: it's virtually in all definitions of feminism. The problem is that it's that haters try to fog the issue - and they have a much louder voice. And hating on femionism because of that, simply isn't productive, nor logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I think the idea of having to have people label themselves as femenists is stupid because female equality should be a basic thing in society. Again, I can refer to the (anti-racist) equal rights movements. It's not because something should be a basic thing in society, that it actually is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Map Painter Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Don't read the news, huh? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11746953/The-Iran-nuclear-deal-is-worse-than-we-could-have-imagined.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted July 17, 2015 Administrators Share Posted July 17, 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11746953/The-Iran-nuclear-deal-is-worse-than-we-could-have-imagined.html a ) arms embargo isn't getting insta dropped b ) lifting sanctions is in exchange for halting nuclear development. you want iran to stop developing nuclear weapons without any benefits to them? why would they do that, lol? c ) make a thread if you wanna go into it more i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollothelion Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I didnt read through the pages.... But here is a short tid bit. Do I support feminism? Yep. Do I support the extremists of feminism? Nope. Two different things. As every cause there are extremists. And then the normies. Hell. Equality is important in general... You really dont know the struggle till you go somewhere, where being a girl is so restricted, it is hard to breathe sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poorest scrub Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Jesus a lotta posts since i got off. Well i guess i got a lot to read and respond to then. Although time doesnt permit atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I just saw this: also and (the forums only allow embedding of up to 2 videos in one post, so additional videos only appear as links) I have to say that I do tend to agree overall. 3rd wave feminism is very much like a cult, and its leaders are very much like cult leaders who cannot be questioned or criticized without the people criticizing them being completely demonized and attacked in their public and personal lives. Ironically, feminists bully and harass and threaten others, but constantly pretend that they are the ones who are victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 First Movie: Personally, I find the saddest part to be 8:48. When one makes a 10 minute movie hating on a subject and then with a straight face refer to oneself as "just speaking out against it" & "and try to inform what X is" ... Google-fu: the first link to properties of a cult gives me http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm ‪ The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. Apparently the lack of leader didn't stop the maker of the vid. Stretching it to such broad definition that many, if not all systems fall under it. Try attacking Dawkins or Hitchens in some atheist circles. ‪Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. Again, try and quesion evolution, in some circles ‪Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). Nope ‪The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). Feminism doesn't do this ‪The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). Not more then atheism ... ‪The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. Feminiazies, OK. But not most feminist I know. ‪The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). nope. ‪The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). I'm not sure if this applies. contains a lot of subjectivity. ‪The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. By lack of leadership, this doesn't apply either. Keeping in mind that using shame/guild/... are tactics that even actual leaders (like politician) use. ‪Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. Nope ‪The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. Not anymore, then, lets say, atheism - of trying to convince people your stance on a subject is correct. ‪The group is preoccupied with making money. Nope ‪Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. Nope ‪Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. Nope ‪The most loyal members (the “true believersâ€) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. Nope. There's no special treatment for 'apostates' I'll have to go with Wikipedia: The word "cult" has always been controversial because it is (in a pejorative sense) considered a subjective term, used as an ad hominem attack against groups with differing doctrines or practices, which lacks a clear or consistent definition Why? If you take the second movie, and replace feminism by republicans & Patriarchy by Obama's administration, you can pretty much substitute Anita with Sarah Palin & sell it to Fox News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Penguins Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Doesn't 3rd wave/extreme feminism/feminazism sound a lot like the pigs from Animal Farm? "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted July 29, 2015 Administrators Share Posted July 29, 2015 3rd wave is the liberal, sex positive types who go on about gender expression all the time. The ones you people like to call "feminazis" are more in line with 2nd wave politics. Broadly speaking, I guess. There's a lot of diversity of opinion inbetween. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Doesn't 3rd wave/extreme feminism/feminazism sound a lot like the pigs from Animal Farm? "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others". I'm ashamed to say that I never read it. I think there may have been a movie made from it, so maybe I can just watch that... My first instinct is to say no, because as a whole, I do not think 3rd wave feminism is at all concerned with equality, though many 3rd wave feminists claim to be. But maybe that's the point of the quote you brought up. I need to read that book first. I've heard it referenced in so many political discussions at this point that I really have no excuse not to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 As far as I get it first wave femisim deals with equality towards the government (As it includes right to vote, right to own propperty, ...) second wave femism deals with equality toward a group (As it includes equal pay in a company, as much right as her spouce to decide if she wants children, ...) third wave femism deals wtih equality in perception (As it includes abolishing gender role expectations) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.