PSA: Trading with bp.tf automatic WILL count towards your trades with scammers on TF2Outpost

[Gent♥]

Personally....why anyone with half a brain would use their MAIN ACCOUNTS to let a bot auto-trade when you aren't home.

 

You heard it here first folks, Outpost thinks anybody who uses bp.tf automatic is an idiot!

That means you! Yes you, at home, you're officially half-brained!

[sirploko]

Hope you go and ban geel right now, Dobro can trade with his bots all he wants with his alts and other people's scammer alts.

(I'm fine with the rule btw, Just that you should go and ban geel now lol)

No he can't. At least according to geel. Scrap.tf checks for SR tags upon login.

[Water Salesman]

No he can't. At least according to geel. Scrap.tf checks for SR tags upon login.

His alts can which is the whole basis upon this whole argument is based

[Prince Lowell]

No he can't. At least according to geel. Scrap.tf checks for SR tags upon login.

um... not all scammer alts are marked.

besides, SR takes forever to get a report through themselves.

[Slocumruls]

No he can't. At least according to geel. Scrap.tf checks for SR tags upon login.

But does it check for alts????

[Gren]

I don't use bp automatic, but I'm assuming not many people are using it to actually buy items?  If you set up a bot that'll accept any unusual offer for 8 keys, then yeah, you had it coming, sooner rather than later you will trade with a scammer and you'll get banned.  End of story, I'm sure most of us wouldn't argue in that case.  I would assume that (almost) nobody does this (set up an unusual buying bot), as this would be seriously shortsighted. 

 

Most of the bp automatic trades I see are set up to accept only pure.  How many scammer and scammer alts are actually shelling out 30 keys (they may or may not have stolen) to buy an unusual?  I thought the whole point of scamming was to get paid, not buy more hats.  

 

It feels like I'm missing something here.....

[knavesmith]

I don't use bp automatic, but I'm assuming not that many people are using it to actually buy items?  If you set up a bot that'll accept any unusual offer for 8 keys, then yeah, you had it coming, sooner rather than later you will trade with a scammer and you'll get banned.  End of story, I'm sure most of us wouldn't argue in that case.  I would assume that (almost) nobody does this (set up an unusual buying bot), as this would be seriously shortsighted. 

 

Most of the bp automatic trades I see are set up to accept only pure.  How many scammer and scammer alts are actually shelling out 30 keys (they may or may not have stolen) to buy an unusual?  I thought the whole point of scamming was to get paid, not buy more hats.  

 

It feels like I'm missing something here.....

bp.tf automatic will ONLY accept pure and you can only use it to SELL items, not buy items. Therefore, according to the main arguers here, any marked scammer would be shelling their own pure for an item they'd have to get rid of, and it would be near impossible to not trade with obvious alts since you can't control who buys your items, like the SCM, which Outpost does not ban.

[OverduePixels]

No he can't. At least according to geel. Scrap.tf checks for SR tags upon login.

 

Before I go on, I do have a question regarding this new rule. Shouldn't this rule fall on the following known sites as well?

 

scrap.tf

dispenser.tf

trade.tf

 

I recently reported someone on scrap.tf raffle who has been marked by FoG but not banned on scrap.tf , the user created a raffle complaining how he got marked by FoG.

 

Also, you can use alt on any of those sites as far as I can tell and scammers do use alt on scrap.tf which has one of the most largest user database and tons of people use it every day.

 

There isn't any API to prevent this nor anyone can create one to prevent it. No, bot can recognize what is an alt and what isn't. I don't have anything to say against the rule but this question popped up in my mind.

[www.]

ban geel

[sirploko]

But does it check for alts????

It certainly should, but you have a point there. Ultimately anyone could make alts that could fool other users into believing they were legit, we had reports about trades with scammer alts we had to reject, because the scammer was not banned anywhere at the time of the trade and the account was looking very legit. I am not saying our system is foolproof or perfect and I will not comment on other sites, but what counts for me, and that is why I joined Outpost in the first place, is that we try our best to keep scammers and people who trade with them out.

 

There is unfortunately not much you can do if someone steals virtual items from you, if that person is sitting halfway across the globe from you and sometimes not even if he is from the same country. The people defending scammers, or rather who say that a person that trades with a scammer should not get banned or tagged, do not realize that behind every scammer there is at least one victim. If you were to sell a $5k BP to a trusted community admin and the guy decided to go rogue and just never pays you, wouldn't you feel a little shitty if that guy could sell your hard earned stuff for cash without repercussion?

[Дебра]

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198217593028/

https://scrap.tf/profile/1430415

Also feel free to ban this alt.

 

Now ban geel.

[www.]

op just give up. geel lord swag jessecar etc all deserve a ban if these people do. this is apeshit

 

edit @dobrov: nice steam id64

[Gent♥]

There is unfortunately not much you can do if someone steals virtual items from you, if that person is sitting halfway across the globe from you and sometimes not even if he is from the same country. The people defending scammers, or rather who say that a person that trades with a scammer should not get banned or tagged, do not realize that behind every scammer there is at least one victim. If you were to sell a $5k BP to a trusted community admin and the guy decided to go rogue and just never pays you, wouldn't you feel a little shitty if that guy could sell your hard earned stuff for cash without repercussion?

 

This, notably, has nothing to do with having no control over scammers buying from automatic users.

In fact it's almost trying to guilt-trip us, which is... tsk tsk.

[Slocumruls]

It certainly should, but you have a point there. Ultimately anyone could make alts that could fool other users into believing they were legit, we had reports about trades with scammer alts we had to reject, because the scammer was not banned anywhere at the time of the trade and the account was looking very legit. I am not saying our system is foolproof or perfect and I will not comment on other sites, but what counts for me, and that is why I joined Outpost in the first place, is that we try our best to keep scammers and people who trade with them out.

 

There is unfortunately not much you can do if someone steals virtual items from you, if that person is sitting halfway across the globe from you and sometimes not even if he is from the same country. The people defending scammers, or rather who say that a person that trades with a scammer should not get banned or tagged, do not realize that behind every scammer there is at least one victim. If you were to sell a $5k BP to a trusted community admin and the guy decided to go rogue and just never pays you, wouldn't you feel a little shitty if that guy could sell your hard earned stuff for cash without repercussion?

The main issue I have with this is that you are implying that you are holding small time bot users to a HIGHER standard than the largest bot run site in TF2.

[The One]

Backpack.tf altering its bot could solve this issue.

 

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/32761-make-backpacktf-automatic-bot-ignore-trade-offers-from-scammer-alts/

[Gent♥]

Backpack.tf altering its bot could solve this issue.

 

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/32761-make-backpacktf-automatic-bot-ignore-trade-offers-from-scammer-alts/

 

If such an alteration is possible, then yes, it would.

But until such a change is applied enforcing this rule is farcical.

[sirploko]

 

Before I go on, I do have a question regarding this new rule. Shouldn't this rule fall on the following known sites as well?

 

scrap.tf

dispenser.tf

trade.tf

 

I recently reported someone on scrap.tf raffle who has been marked by FoG but not banned on scrap.tf , the user created a raffle complaining how he got marked by FoG.

 

Also, you can use alt on any of those sites as far as I can tell and scammers do use alt on scrap.tf which has one of the most largest user database and tons of people use it every day.

 

There isn't any API to prevent this nor anyone can create one to prevent it. No, bot can recognize what is alt and what isn't. I don't have anything to say against the rule but this question popped up in my mind.

 

This subject has been brought up many times and without going into details, I can say that it is very different if the issue concerns another community site. There is a lot more to consider and even if we were to ban the owners from Outpost, it would have no impact whatsoever. This is an issue that ultimately needs to be adressed by Steamrep, as all of us are just affiliates of them and most of our rules are based on theirs.

 

The difference here is that it is not bp.tf running a trading bot for its own profit, but providing a feature that could be exploited to circumvent our rules, if we were to turn a blind eye to it. We do not have bots either to identify our alts, but we have a dedicated staff that puts in many hours each week, trying their best to keep up to date with every new scammer alt. To see this effort being made obsolete by a feature we have no control over and that has been brought up as an excuse in at least 2 recent reports, is not something we are prepared to do. This has nothing to do with bp.tf itself or with us trying to keep users away from the feature. I personally think it is rather ingenius, but ultimately we are dedicated to Outpost first and if users trade with scammers in any preventable way, we will hold them accountable.

[LaughingLollipop]

10/10 would lol again.

 

Outpost's crusade is lost.

 

Its about time to admit that an economy where individual identity can be changed at will simply cannot root out and defeat fraud.

 

 

PS toughsox isn't lying... just takes one malicous update to any auto tool and everyone using it will lose everything they own.

[The One]

If such an alteration is possible, then yes, it would.

But until such a change is applied enforcing this rule is farcical.

No, it is not. If you want to use a bot to accept trade offers for you, you better be prepared to risk it trading with scammer alts.

[Дебра]

This subject has been brought up many times and without going into details, I can say that it is very different if the issue concerns another community site. There is a lot more to consider and even if we were to ban the owners from Outpost, it would have no impact whatsoever. This is an issue that ultimately needs to be adressed by Steamrep, as all of us are just affiliates of them and most of our rules are based on theirs.

 

The difference here is that it is not bp.tf running a trading bot for its own profit, but providing a feature that could be exploited to circumvent our rules, if we were to turn a blind eye to it. We do not have bots either to identify our alts, but we have a dedicated staff that puts in many hours each week, trying their best to keep up to date with every new scammer alt. To see this effort being made obsolete by a feature we have no control over and that has been brought up as an excuse in at least 2 recent reports, is not something we are prepared to do. This has nothing to do with bp.tf itself or with us trying to keep users away from the feature. I personally think it is rather ingenius, but ultimately we are dedicated to Outpost first and if users trade with scammers in any preventable way, we will hold them accountable.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/market/is just as exploitable. Works exactly the same way.

[Gent♥]

No, it is not. If you want to use a bot to accept trade offers for you, you better be prepared to risk it trading with scammer alts.

You mean like SCM? Where trades are made in the exact same situations?

You can ban for SCM AND this, or you can ban for neither. Picking and choosing is not an option, not if you want to retain any respect anyway.

[sirploko]

 

This, notably, has nothing to do with having no control over scammers buying from automatic users.

In fact it's almost trying to guilt-trip us, which is... tsk tsk.

My point is, that anyone that feels as strongly as my colleagues or me about trading with scammers would never use a feature that potentially could lead to trading with a scammer alt. As I mentioned before, this is everbodies own decision to make ultimately and we have a lot of users that flat out don't care at all, which is fine by me, I don't judge them. But then don't come crying in the appeal that you should have access to Outpost after.

[LaughingLollipop]

You mean like SCM? Where trades are made in the exact same situations?

You can ban for SCM AND this, or you can ban for neither. Picking and choosing is not an option, not if you want to retain any respect anyway.

 

how can I check who I am buying from on SCM?

 

please do tell

[Water Salesman]

how can I check who I am buying from on SCM?

 

please do tell

You don't

[Дебра]

how can I check who I am buying from on SCM?

 

please do tell

 

How can you check who you sell to?