Czar Kasim Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 6 day war of 1967 is the foremost example in my head considering the large territorial gains Israel won. There's a difference between a war for conquest and acquisition, and a preemptive strike against mobilizing enemy forces massed in large numbers. Besides which, they promptly gave back the majority of the territory they took in peace agreements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0night Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 There's a difference between a war for conquest and acquisition, and a preemptive strike against mobilizing enemy forces massed in large numbers. Besides which, they promptly gave back the majority of the territory they took in peace agreements. Yeah, and the difference is that if you're Palestinian you'd call it a conquest that Israel got an international slap on the wrist for, and if you're Israeli you'd call it a good day at the office that ended disappointingly. I take your point entirely but it's not like Israel had no part in ratcheting up the tension that led to the mobilization or made any genuine efforts to my knowledge to avoid military engagement which they were surely confident of winning so once again I'm gonna have to disagree with the view that Israel is the bullied kid fighting back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah, and the difference is that if you're Palestinian you'd call it a conquest that Israel got an international slap on the wrist for, and if you're Israeli you'd call it a good day at the office that ended disappointingly. I take your point entirely but it's not like Israel had no part in ratcheting up the tension that led to the mobilization or made any genuine efforts to my knowledge to avoid military engagement which they were surely confident of winning so once again I'm gonna have to disagree with the view that Israel is the bullied kid fighting back. no one said the bullied kid had to be the weaker one. It does happen that bullies bully someone who they can't handle and end up getting their ass kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0night Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 no one said the bullied kid had to be the weaker one. It does happen that bullies bully someone who they can't handle and end up getting their ass kicked. except that the bullied kid metaphor no longer makes sense if the apparently bullied kid is spoiling for a fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engi Desu Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Israelis are NOT peacemakers. They're actually war-baiting idiots that are being defended by the United States. If the U.S. wasn't behind Israel and gave them nuclear weapons, then that country would've falled by now. Here's some proof about Israel's bullshit: http://www.youtube.com/embed/UMFAfQJKlAM - Israel calling a journalist / show host for reporting on Israel's bombings against journalists. http://www.youtube.com/embed/b1Gh7YNVuFk - Israel Blockades. http://www.youtube.com/embed/H2IQiYI1Emw - President Carter Interview against Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Israelis are NOT peacemakers. They're actually war-baiting idiots that are being defended by the United States. If the U.S. wasn't behind Israel and gave them nuclear weapons, then that country would've falled by now. Here's some proof about Israel's bullshit: http://www.youtube.com/embed/UMFAfQJKlAM - Israel calling a journalist / show host for reporting on Israel's bombings against journalists. http://www.youtube.com/embed/b1Gh7YNVuFk - Israel Blockades. http://www.youtube.com/embed/H2IQiYI1Emw - President Carter Interview against Israel. You should try reading/watching more than one news report. I know this is hard to believe, but the news is incredibly biased. Oh, and the whole-"blockade" issue comes from the fact that the various terrorist organizations have a tendency to ship in weapons and then get upset and cry out when Israel wants to search said cargo. And finally, Russian news is definitely not biased against Israel--I mean, after all Russia loves Israel. And before you make Israel seem like the terrible person here, do keep in mind no one wanted the Palestinians in the first place; thats why they're there. Why don't you complain about one of the other nations around Israel for not offering to take the Palestinians in? On a side note, it doesn't bother you that she's not unbiased in the least? News is supposed to be unbiased, she clearly has something against Israel--and therefore is quite biased--i.e. a bad news reporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engi Desu Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 You should try reading/watching more than one news report. I know this is hard to believe, but the news is incredibly biased. Oh, and the whole-"blockade" issue comes from the fact that the various terrorist organizations have a tendency to ship in weapons and then get upset and cry out when Israel wants to search said cargo. And finally, Russian news is definitely not biased against Israel--I mean, after all Russia loves Israel. And before you make Israel seem like the terrible person here, do keep in mind no one wanted the Palestinians in the first place; thats why they're there. Why don't you complain about one of the other nations around Israel for not offering to take the Palestinians in? On a side note, it doesn't bother you that she's not unbiased in the least? News is supposed to be unbiased, she clearly has something against Israel--and therefore is quite biased--i.e. a bad news reporter. She has even admitted to being biased and exposed the news' biasm too. RT in Russia is definitely biased as hell, but this host works under RT America, which is biased against the government's bullshit. Because RT got bombed and she reported on it, she gets called a terrorist by Israel for calling out Israel on their attacks against journalists? She even mentioned that Israel committed a war crime under international law. All I hear on CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC is pro-Israel propaganda, so where's the opposition side? Oh yeah, on very small airwaves, since we have to support the 'holy land.' Why in the fuck do the Palestinians have to move out of their own land on the basis of the U.N.'s decision? Palestine was nice enough to do that, but the Israelis stabbed them in the back and overthrew the country. So, the Palestines need to move out of the country that they happily allowed the Israelis to move in? It makes no fucking sense that the owner of the house has to leave because the roommates took over the ownership and thrown him out. When Israel stops sticking their nose into everyone's business (Iran nuclear dear), stop committing war crimes (bombing journalists and dumping white sulfur) and crimes against humanity (blockades against Palestine), stop sucking the U.S.'s dick for money (since that's the only way why that country is even around), and actually runs a civilized country (since Palestine is land-locked by Israel), then I might even consider other countries. Abby Martin had the honor to interview Larry King, whom said that "journalists are required to be unbiased", but yet, she tore his argument down so quick. All journalists have some kind of bias, no matter how neutral they try to be. Some are conservative, some are liberal, some are anarchist, some are independent, etc. Yet, Larry King has been biased as hell on his own show before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 She has even admitted to being biased and exposed the news' biasm too. RT in Russia is definitely biased as hell, but this host works under RT America, which is biased against the government's bullshit. Because RT got bombed and she reported on it, she gets called a terrorist by Israel for calling out Israel on their attacks against journalists? She even mentioned that Israel committed a war crime under international law. All I hear on CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC is pro-Israel propaganda, so where's the opposition side? Oh yeah, on very small airwaves, since we have to support the 'holy land.' Why in the fuck do the Palestinians have to move out of their own land on the basis of the U.N.'s decision? Palestine was nice enough to do that, but the Israelis stabbed them in the back and overthrew the country. So, the Palestines need to move out of the country that they happily allowed the Israelis to move in? It makes no fucking sense that the owner of the house has to leave because the roommates took over the ownership and thrown him out. When Israel stops sticking their nose into everyone's business (Iran nuclear dear), stop committing war crimes (bombing journalists and dumping white sulfur) and crimes against humanity (blockades against Palestine), stop sucking the U.S.'s dick for money (since that's the only way why that country is even around), and actually runs a civilized country (since Palestine is land-locked by Israel), then I might even consider other countries. Abby Martin had the honor to interview Larry King, whom said that "journalists are required to be unbiased", but yet, she tore his argument down so quick. All journalists have some kind of bias, no matter how neutral they try to be. Some are conservative, some are liberal, some are anarchist, some are independent, etc. Yet, Larry Kng has been biased as hell on his own show before. First off, the Israeli's weren't exactly "welcomed". Secondly, the Palestinians are only "locked up" due to the fact that when they (individual terrorists) weren't suicide bombings were prevalent. CNN, biased towards Israel? What? The blockades were made to prevent weapons from being sent in, which was highly prevalent prior to the blockades. No country wants Iran to become nuclear capable; America, Europe, and Israel alike--so lets not pretend that thats Israel's doing. Israel is the only civilized country in the entire area....Have you even been to Israel--I'm guessing not. No one considers Larry King to be real news; he's a talk show host, he literally goes on about nothing--true or not just to entertain people. Thats like saying SNL is news... Finally, I have a feeling theres a bit more to that "bombing journalists" story that was left out. Just like the fact that the Israel is blockading food and medicine, yet fails to mention what else was getting brought into Gaza--i.e. weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engi Desu Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 First off, the Israeli's weren't exactly "welcomed". Secondly, the Palestinians are only "locked up" due to the fact that when they (individual terrorists) weren't suicide bombings were prevalent. CNN, biased towards Israel? What? The blockades were made to prevent weapons from being sent in, which was highly prevalent prior to the blockades. No country wants Iran to become nuclear capable; America, Europe, and Israel alike--so lets not pretend that thats Israel's doing. Israel is the only civilized country in the entire area....Have you even been to Israel--I'm guessing not. No one considers Larry King to be real news; he's a talk show host, he literally goes on about nothing--true or not just to entertain people. Thats like saying SNL is news... Finally, I have a feeling theres a bit more to that "bombing journalists" story that was left out. Just like the fact that the Israel is blockading food and medicine, yet fails to mention what else was getting brought into Gaza--i.e. weapons. But, Palestine welcomed them into the country. They could've went against the U.N. decision. The second part, I really don't understand what you're trying to say. Suicide Bombings are done by radicals of the Muslim/Arab beliefs. Duh. CNN has supported Israel, along with the majority of the Fourth Estate. You hardly hear an opposing voice on the MSM. Blockades were probably set up for that reason; however, it wouldn't surprise me they used it further to also humiliate and discriminate against the Palestines. Israel has been spouting their shit first about the matter; however, all of the Israeli-supported countries will fall into line too. They get the most international aid out of all the countries in the world from the United States. So, do you see why the U.S. / Israel nearly agree on every single issue? I haven't been there, but I'm probably certain that you haven't either. So, don't try to use that to discredit me. If no one considered Larry King to be real news, then why in the hell was he on CNN for dozens of years? Elaborate that. And if you want to use that something was left out, then why does she expose Wikipedia's biasm and how Israel has promoted a hot-air balloon ride to spout the most pro-Israel bullshit about Israel? (Which I actually helped her on a second revision on the story, giving her logs of where they banned non-admin users from recreating her Wikipedia page.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 But, Palestine welcomed them into the country. They could've went against the U.N. decision. The second part, I really don't understand what you're trying to say. Suicide Bombings are done by radicals of the Muslim/Arab beliefs. Duh. CNN has supported Israel, along with the majority of the Fourth Estate. You hardly hear an opposing voice on the MSM. Blockades were probably set up for that reason; however, it wouldn't surprise me they used it further to also humiliate and discriminate against the Palestines. Israel has been spouting their shit first about the matter; however, all of the Israeli-supported countries will fall into line too. They get the most international aid out of all the countries in the world from the United States. So, do you see why the U.S. / Israel nearly agree on every single issue? I haven't been there, but I'm probably certain that you haven't either. So, don't try to use that to discredit me. If no one considered Larry King to be real news, then why in the hell was he on CNN for dozens of years? Elaborate that. And if you want to use that something was left out, then why does she expose Wikipedia's biasm and how Israel has promoted a hot-air balloon ride to spout the most pro-Israel bullshit about Israel? (Which I actually helped her on a second revision on the story, giving her logs of where they banned non-admin users from recreating her Wikipedia page.) I have been there and i have multiple friends, both Israelis and Arabs a like who have and/or still live there. And of course Israel and the US tend to agree with each other more then other countries--There are only a handful of truly free countries, and on most general issues--they tend to agree. Larry King was on cnn for ratings and views. He's a talk show host, he's not a news reporter. So, CNN, Fox, etc... are all incredibly biased towards Israel. Yet RT, which is incredibly biased against Israel is in the right while CNN/Fox/etc... are all wrong. Well, believe what you want, but I can't take her seriously considering she takes everything as a personal attack and clearly shows are bias in every sentence she says. And, P.s. if Israel can "pay off" wikipedia, then why can't Hamas/Hesbola/Syria/Gaza/etc... "pay off" Russia Today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engi Desu Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I have been there and i have multiple friends, both Israelis and Arabs a like who have and/or still live there. And of course Israel and the US tend to agree with each other more then other countries--There are only a handful of truly free countries, and on most general issues--they tend to agree. Larry King was on cnn for ratings and views. He's a talk show host, he's not a news reporter. So, CNN, Fox, etc... are all incredibly biased towards Israel. Yet RT, which is incredibly biased against Israel is in the right while CNN/Fox/etc... are all wrong. Well, believe what you want, but I can't take her seriously considering she takes everything as a personal attack and clearly shows are bias in every sentence she says. And, P.s. if Israel can "pay off" wikipedia, then why can't Hamas/Hesbola/Syria/Gaza/etc... "pay off" Russia Today? Okay, so you've been there personally and I don't. I do have a friend, who are friends with Arabs, that has an opposing view on it. As I said, US gives Israel tons of money, despite of the war crimes and crimes against humanity that Israel does. I'm not saying that Israel is all that bad or wrong, but the bias does show on it. Because someone's biased for or against, doesn't mean they can still release accurate reporting. Sadly, CNN, Fox, and MSNBC has been lacking on accurate reporting for quite a while now. That's why people are looking towards RT, The Young Turks, The Blaze, and other independent news media now. The thing is... when you're getting called a terrorist by a country who is committing war crimes and you report on it, then wouldn't you be upset and respond to them publicly about it? I would've done the same thing she did. She had all rights to respond back to the white-washing that the pro-Israeli journalist tried to do against her. Gaza (Palestine) is dead broke. Syria is in a civil war. Abby Martin had guests that went against Hamas and Hesbola. (Interview with George Galloway is one.) Russia Today doesn't take bribery from other countries, but it is acknowledged that they get grants from the Russian Government. However, they don't have annoying three-minute commercials trying to get you to take pills or eat/drink something. Also, the military industrial complex pays off CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, etc. Here's an interview about that issue Abby took on: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Russia Today doesn't take bribery from other countries, but it is acknowledged that they get grants from the Russian Government. However, they don't have annoying three-minute commercials trying to get you to take pills or eat/drink something. Also, the military industrial complex pays off CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, etc. Here's an interview about that issue Abby took on: Okay, got it. Russian media can't lie. Oh, and CNN is quite biased against Israel in most cases...not sure what news your reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engi Desu Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Okay, got it. Russian media can't lie. Oh, and CNN is quite biased against Israel in most cases...not sure what news your reading. I'm not saying they can lie, but I'm pointing out the fact that CNN and all of them are being funded by the Military Complex. So, because RT gets funded by Russian Government Grants, doesn't mean it's a disproving tactic. It inflicts a conflict of interest. Show me articles where CNN is biased against Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar Kasim Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Engi Desu, you are wrong about virtually every "fact" you state. Russia Today is just another arm of the Russian govt, which has been anti-Israel since Stalin's time. I'm not sure how Larry King is relevent to this, but he is not a news source. He talks about things, he does not investigate facts, and being on CNN only emphasizes that. Your statement that the Palestinians invited Israelis in then got backstabbed is absolutely mind-blowing, and literally could not be farther from the truth. When the Arabs heard the UN was going to go forward with the plan to give both Palestinians and future Israelis a place in Palestine (and that the British would be high-tailing it out of there), they started a civil war rather than coexist. Look up the 1948 Palestinian war and actually read about it. Look up http://bbcwatch.org/ for a few examples of how the mainstream media is biased against Israel. You accuse Israel of crimes against humanity and offer little evidence. Did you know Palestinians literally celebrate the release of prisoners who murdered Jews and Israelis? Not suspected terrorists, not rock throwers, but admitted murderers who are proud of what they did. They make these prisoner releases mandatory to even show up for the so-called "peace talks" (which they always walk away from). The US did not give Israel nukes. In fact their nukes were developed in part with the French. Israel has every right to be concerned about neighbors who say their nation has no right to exist and should be destroyed, especially when those neighbors are pursuing nuclear weapons. Gaza was a pretty nice place when the Israelis handed it over to Fatah as a sign of good intent. It was the infighting between Hamas and Fatah that wrecked the place, not the evil Israelis. A final point, do you know why the region, which is the admitted ancestral homeland of the Jews, is called Palestine? In about 132 AD, the Jews rebelled against the Romans who ruled the region at the time. They sought to regain independence, and succeeded for a time, about 2 years. But the Romans returned with a vengeance and devastated all of Judea. Hundreds of thousands of Jews died. Judaism was outlawed and the entire region was renamed Syria Palaestina in order to wipe the name of Israel/Judea off the map. Look up the Bar Kokhba rebellion for more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splat Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Solution: Jerusalem becomes independent citystate and Israel takes its own land for itself and same with Palestine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ersin Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 >Excuse me? mass killings? What war crimes? Do you even have a clue what you're talking about? oh boy, seems someone had too much blue pill. I bet you huffed some of that dank white phosphorus Israel sent into Gaza. >Also, America gives aid to Israel (and most of the Arab countries for that matter) for a multitude of reasons, but one key reason is that Israel is the only stable government in the entire area, brining some stability, and a safe-haven for US troops. only reason that israel is the only stable government in the area is because the US and other imperial powers overthrew the rest. 1953 Iranian coup, anyone? even if israel was the only stable country on its own, I don't see how that defends my taxes going to them. Why should I have my paycheck stolen from me to go to a country that is already well off anyhow, judging by the sheer amount of nukes and other war machines they own. Furthermore, we give aid to israel to bomb their enemies, and then give aid money to their enemies, IE Palestein, to rebuild? Makes no sense to me. >and a safe-haven for US troops. no, the safe-haven for US troops is here at home. In the US. where they'd actually protect America. to quote Bill Clinton: "Who the fuck does [Netanyahu] think he is? Who's the fucking superpower here." Lets say your Homeland (America,Canada,Russia,Britain etc.) was forced to leave thier country and the only way for your race/country to survive is to take refuge in other countries and wait for things to settle out and after a few centuries or so you get a green light to go back to your beloved country ,but wait?!? Another race took it and freaking didn't want to give it back. Will you stand down to that or just let it go and leave your people hopeles to never be a nation again because you can't go back to your own rightful country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Lets say your Homeland (America,Canada,Russia,Britain etc.) was forced to leave thier country and the only way for your race/country to survive is to take refuge in other countries and wait for things to settle out and after a few centuries or so you get a green light to go back to your beloved country ,but wait?!? Another race took it and freaking didn't want to give it back. Will you stand down to that or just let it go and leave your people hopeles to never be a nation again because you can't go back to your own rightful country? few centuries =/= 1900 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Map Painter Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Lets say your Homeland (America,Canada,Russia,Britain etc.) was forced to leave thier country and the only way for your race/country to survive is to take refuge in other countries and wait for things to settle out and after a few centuries or so you get a green light to go back to your beloved country ,but wait?!? Another race took it and freaking didn't want to give it back. Will you stand down to that or just let it go and leave your people hopeles to never be a nation again because you can't go back to your own rightful country? Norman invasion of England says hi. Saxons fled to Byzantium, some even joined the Varangian guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Norman invasion of England says hi. Saxons fled to Byzantium, some even joined the Varangian guard. Those where completely different people. The Varangian guard was formed by Vikings. Originally by people from Scandinavia who had sailed down to Byzantium, and then by Normans from England. Later there indeed where also Saxon English people that joined the Varangian guard, but they were a small minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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