Palestina

[puddingkip]

So, it has become quite clear that Jews and Palestines have BIIGGG problems living together in Israël/Palestina. Which of the groups have the most rights to the region??

[Jymotion]

The issue is their religous differences.  If the question is asking which religion is correct, I don't think any of us are qualified to answer.

[puddingkip]

The issue is their religous differences.  If the question is asking which religion is correct, I don't think any of us are qualified to answer.

No. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking as to who's the rightful owner of the land. The palestines, who lived there for several centuries or the Jews who were promised the land by the Brits and the UN

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

No. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking as to who's the rightful owner of the land. The palestines, who lived there for several centuries or the Jews who were promised the land by the Brits and the UN

Its not exactly Jews vs. Palestinians. 

 

When the palestinians were in control of israel, jews and non-jews alike were both banned from Jerusalem and many other cities. (In case anyone doesn't know, Jerusalem is pretty much the religious home to every religion in the world--Western Wall for Jews, Church of the Holy Sepulchre for Christians, and The Dome of the Rock for Arabs. 

 

As for who it belongs to, Israelis fought for israel, and won. I don't see England asking Obama to give back New England, or Spain asking for Louisiana back, so in my mind it no question belongs to Israel, and not palestine. Plus, Palestinians have a tendency to destroy whatever they get (Israel gave the Palestinians the Gaza strip full of schools, greenhouses, hospitals, etc... Gaza was self-sustainable, but the palestinians decided to destroy the aforementioned buildings in order to build and house weapons). Also, i'm going to spread out a bit, Arabs everywhere are trying to impose sharia law. 

 

Now, yes, obviously this isn't all arabs, or all palestinians. But you can't ignore the actions that they have taken. I mean, how would New York City's mayor react to New Jersey launching rockets at the Statue of Liberty? Probably not very well...

[Jymotion]

No. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking as to who's the rightful owner of the land. The palestines, who lived there for several centuries or the Jews who were promised the land by the Brits and the UN

 

They both feel the land is their holy land and that they are the rightful owners.

[puddingkip]

Its not exactly Jews vs. Palestinians. 

 

When the palestinians were in control of israel, jews and non-jews alike were both banned from Jerusalem and many other cities. (In case anyone doesn't know, Jerusalem is pretty much the religious home to every religion in the world--Western Wall for Jews, Church of the Holy Sepulchre for Christians, and The Dome of the Rock for Arabs. 

 

As for who it belongs to, Israelis fought for israel, and won. I don't see England asking Obama to give back New England, or Spain asking for Louisiana back, so in my mind it no question belongs to Israel, and not palestine. Plus, Palestinians have a tendency to destroy whatever they get (Israel gave the Palestinians the Gaza strip full of schools, greenhouses, hospitals, etc... Gaza was self-sustainable, but the palestinians decided to destroy the aforementioned buildings in order to build and house weapons). Also, i'm going to spread out a bit, Arabs everywhere are trying to impose sharia law. 

 

Now, yes, obviously this isn't all arabs, or all palestinians. But you can't ignore the actions that they have taken. I mean, how would New York City's mayor react to New Jersey launching rockets at the Statue of Liberty? Probably not very well...

Besides the fact that Louisiana was French, no Spanish, I 100% agree with you that palestines ruin most of the shit they get. But you can't decline they've got a good case. They lived there, and suddenly the land was decided to be given to the Jews. So, Palestines have better rights, Jews would be better for the country. Though if you remove the extreme 10% from both sides (the Palestines that blow up shit and shoot rockets and the Jews that make colonies in Palestinan land) they could live together and blend in, into one nation. Sadly, as quite often, the extreme cases fuck up the general welbehaviour

[puddingkip]

They both feel the land is their holy land and that they are the rightful owners.

Correct, and this poll was made to see which side you support. Who do you think are the rightful owners?

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Besides the fact that Louisiana was French, no Spanish, I 100% agree with you that palestines ruin most of the shit they get. But you can't decline they've got a good case. They lived there, and suddenly the land was decided to be given to the Jews. So, Palestines have better rights, Jews would be better for the country. Though if you remove the extreme 10% from both sides (the Palestines that blow up shit and shoot rockets and the Jews that make colonies in Palestinan land) they could live together and blend in, into one nation. Sadly, as quite often, the extreme cases fuck up the general welbehaviour

Meant French. Couldn't decide whether to use florida or Louisiana, and ended up using "both"

 

Well, if Israel were to give the land back to Palestine because they were there first, then america should give itself to the native americans. Who was there first is a pretty shitty argument for land ownership. Look at the entirety of the world. Every country at some point fought, and won the land from another nation. So to say the land belongs to the Palestinians because they were there first is obscene. Plus, at what point do you go to to claim ownership? 50 years? 100 years? 1000 years? Israel has been fought over and conquered for millennia. So why should it belong to the Palestinians who controlled it for the past few hundred years, why not the Greeks who controlled it at the beginning of the first millennia? 

 

As for who are the righful owners....Who won the war? I've gotta say it belongs to the Israelis'. Israel won the wars, therefore it should belong to them.

[Jymotion]

Correct, and this poll was made to see which side you support. Who do you think are the rightful owners?

 

My first comment addressed this.  I guess I don't believe either of them have a "right" to it.  It belongs to whoever has control over it.

[F CHARLIE]

Jewish ownership dates to biblical accounts. Than the land changed hands depending on the concurer. The jewish people were scattered. After WW2 a jewish state was formed. I believe palistinians were also offered a state but they refused. Most likely rejecting the formation of the jewish state they felt cheated. Note they did actually sell large amounts of land to the jews prior to the state being formed.

 

I believe that there does need to be a state of palestine but would also hate to see that state become a home for extremists which the iranians would most likely attempt.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Jewish ownership dates to biblical accounts. Than the land changed hands depending on the concurer. The jewish people were scattered. After WW2 a jewish state was formed. I believe palistinians were also offered a state but they refused. Most likely rejecting the formation of the jewish state they felt cheated. Note they did actually sell large amounts of land to the jews prior to the state being formed.

 

I believe that there does need to be a state of palestine but would also hate to see that state become a home for extremists which the iranians would most likely attempt.

The Jews did suggest a dual-state plan, and the arabs blatantly rejected it. The arabs want it all or nothing. Also, Israel has been more than fair. They won a piece of the Sinai desert doubling the size of the state of Israel, and then just handed it back to the Egyptians. So between the Sinai desert, the West Bank, and Gaza Israel has done more than its fair share to try and reconcile with the Palestinians, but they don't care.

 

P.s. the Jews actually conquered Israel from the Amalek nation (which ultimately turned into what is now Arabs). This was just after the Jews had left Egypt, and afaik, there was no true government run by the Jews in the land of Israel (Jews lived there but i'm not sure if there was an actual established government--rather just individual communities). 

 

Plus, Israel's existence is hugely beneficial to the rest of the world. They put out more patents than any other country (per-capita). They also provide the only source of stability in the entire middle east. I find it quite interesting that every major arab nation in the middle-east has uprisings, and insurrections against their own governments. Every one except Israel. 

[humen200]

The Jews did suggest a dual-state plan, and the arabs blatantly rejected it. The arabs want it all or nothing. Also, Israel has been more than fair. They won a piece of the Sinai desert doubling the size of the state of Israel, and then just handed it back to the Egyptians. So between the Sinai desert, the West Bank, and Gaza Israel has done more than its fair share to try and reconcile with the Palestinians, but they don't care.

 

P.s. the Jews actually conquered Israel from the Amalek nation (which ultimately turned into what is now Arabs). This was just after the Jews had left Egypt, and afaik, there was no true government run by the Jews in the land of Israel (Jews lived there but i'm not sure if there was an actual established government--rather just individual communities). 

 

Plus, Israel's existence is hugely beneficial to the rest of the world. They put out more patents than any other country (per-capita). They also provide the only source of stability in the entire middle east. I find it quite interesting that every major arab nation in the middle-east has uprisings, and insurrections against their own governments. Every one except Israel.

 

Israel has never been fair. They take the land by killing innocent women and children. The Jews/Israel could have taken any other land but they chose Palestine just to cause disunity between the Arabs. America, England all helped Israel so the Arabs would be disunited.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Israel has never been fair. They take the land by killing innocent women and children. The Jews/Israel could have taken any other land but they chose Palestine just to cause disunity between the Arabs. America, England all helped Israel so the Arabs would be disunited.

Ummm....Jews aren't the ones who put rockets in hospitals. Also, FYI the Israeli army is the only army in the world that actually tells the people that they're bombing an area. Yes....they did that, before bombing the Gaza strip the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) dropped fliers into the Gaza strip warning that they were going to bomb all the rocket launch sites. Its not Israel's fault that Arab terrorists hide behind innocent civilians. 

 

Israel hasn't been fair? Seriously? They gave the Arabs back the Sinai, they gave them the West Bank, they gave them the Gaza Strip....What more do you want from them? To hand over the entire country and move into the Mediterranean? In case you didn't know Israel is a tiny little country surronded by Arab countries that are how much larger? Why can't the Palestinians move to one of the other Arab countries, since they want Islamic law anyway. Furthermore, 20% of Israel's population is Arab. Tell me, what percentage of Arab countries' population is Jewish/Christian? 

 

And...umm....the only time in history the Arab nations were ever united was when they were fighting AGAINST Israel. They have never been united. (P.s. look up Suni and Shiite relations, they've never gotten along).

 

Ever heard of the term Jihad? I can assure you there is no such word in Judaism, or any religion (aside from Islam) for that matter. Or how about the fact that Muslim terrorists believe they're going to go to heaven with 40 (i think its 40) virgins awaiting them, BUT only if they kill people (i.e. suicide bombers). 

[Alnuaimi]

lol its like if u live in ur home then i come and invade it and say gtfo i used to live here

[humen200]

Ummm....Jews aren't the ones who put rockets in hospitals. Also, FYI the Israeli army is the only army in the world that actually tells the people that they're bombing an area. Yes....they did that, before bombing the Gaza strip the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) dropped fliers into the Gaza strip warning that they were going to bomb all the rocket launch sites. Its not Israel's fault that Arab terrorists hide behind innocent civilians. 

 

Israel hasn't been fair? Seriously? They gave the Arabs back the Sinai, they gave them the West Bank, they gave them the Gaza Strip....What more do you want from them? To hand over the entire country and move into the Mediterranean? In case you didn't know Israel is a tiny little country surronded by Arab countries that are how much larger? Why can't the Palestinians move to one of the other Arab countries, since they want Islamic law anyway. Furthermore, 20% of Israel's population is Arab. Tell me, what percentage of Arab countries' population is Jewish/Christian? 

 

And...umm....the only time in history the Arab nations were ever united was when they were fighting AGAINST Israel. They have never been united. (P.s. look up Suni and Shiite relations, they've never gotten along).

 

Ever heard of the term Jihad? I can assure you there is no such word in Judaism, or any religion (aside from Islam) for that matter. Or how about the fact that Muslim terrorists believe they're going to go to heaven with 40 (i think its 40) virgins awaiting them, BUT only if they kill people (i.e. suicide bombers). 

look. when a muslim kills 1 person, he's called a terrorist. when a non muslim kills muslims, gang rapes the women and what not, they're not called terrorists. sounds fair. the media tells everyone all about the bad thing we do, and all about the good thing u guys do.  And no, those suicide bombers dont go to heaven. they go to hell for killing themselves. 

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

look. when a muslim kills 1 person, he's called a terrorist. when a non muslim kills muslims, gang rapes the women and what not, they're not called terrorists. sounds fair. the media tells everyone all about the bad thing we do, and all about the good thing u guys do.  And no, those suicide bombers dont go to heaven. they go to hell for killing themselves. 

They only go to hell if they didn't kill anyone at the same time. And you've still yet to list any examples just general statements. 

 

Are there bad Israelis who kill Arabs?--Yes. In every society there will always be good and bad people, but when the government/religion itself condones such behavior you start to have a problem. 

 

So Hesbola/Hamas aren't groups of terrorists? Or suicide bombers who blow up a bus--there not terrorists? How about the ones launching rockets into Steirot? 

 

So again....why don't you list some examples rather than just stating idle bull shit. 

[Karam]

Palestine was there before israel, israel invaded palestine and took their land and palestinans couldn't do anything about it.

While i dont give a crap or two about politics, but life is now all about wars and who has the stronger army wins lands. Problem is that arabs are not uniting with each other, thus all the bullshit is happening to arab countries. Palestine will return one day to being itself. And excuse the fellow arabs who replied up^, they have no idea what they are talking about. Arab politicans are retarded, trust me

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Palestine was there before israel, israel invaded palestine and took their land and palestinans couldn't do anything about it.

Thats really not a fair statement. Wars are the only way land ever changes hands. America defeated Britain in the Revolution and gained the continental US. America defeated the French/Spanish and gained Lousiana/Florida. America defeated the Mexicans and gained Texas. 

 

Afaik only twice in (modern, not sure about ancient) history was land that was won in a war returned to its previous owner. (Israel returning the Sinai Desert to Egypt and Russia returning East Germany to Germany, and that was more to do with the fact that the Soviet Union was destroyed). 

 

But you have to ask yourself an important question. When Israel was first created in 1948 it was a shithole. The vast majority of the country was a desert, with rundown cities. Now it is alive and flourishing. Furthermore, Arabs, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and any other religion is welcome in Israel. Jerusalem is home to pretty much every religion in the world yet you couldn't visit there prior to 1967. 

 

Unfortunately political leaders in general are scum bag pieces of shit, this goes for Israeli and Arab politicians alike. However Israel is the only source of stability in the entire region. As a general rule, Israelis and Arabs are non-violent people, its the radicals that ruin it for everyone. But when you have radicals that hide in hospitals, schools, or residential areas avoiding collateral damage is impossible (and Israel even tries to avoid it by warning the areas that they're bombing). 

 

And to make everything worse, the news is incredibly biased (and i'd assume its even worse in Syria). The sad truth is, the only way to know what really happening is to know someone who lives in the effected areas. 

[humen200]

Palestine was there before israel, israel invaded palestine and took their land and palestinans couldn't do anything about it.

While i dont give a crap or two about politics, but life is now all about wars and who has the stronger army wins lands. Problem is that arabs are not uniting with each other, thus all the bullshit is happening to arab countries. Palestine will return one day to being itself. And excuse the fellow arabs who replied up^, they have no idea what they are talking about. Arab politicans are retarded, trust me

Not an Arab.

They only go to hell if they didn't kill anyone at the same time. And you've still yet to list any examples just general statements. 

 

Are there bad Israelis who kill Arabs?--Yes. In every society there will always be good and bad people, but when the government/religion itself condones such behavior you start to have a problem. 

 

So Hesbola/Hamas aren't groups of terrorists? Or suicide bombers who blow up a bus--there not terrorists? How about the ones launching rockets into Steirot? 

 

So again....why don't you list some examples rather than just stating idle bull shit.

 

I never said hesbola, Hamas and the suicide mbombers aren't terrorists. I'm saying that if a person who says he's a Muslim kills even just one person, all Muslims becomes terrorists. Shiis are Muslims? How are they Muslims when they don't follow their own prophets ways? They can call them Muslims yet they kill other Muslims ever since they were created. Sunni = Muslims, Shiites = non Muslims who just claim to be Muslims.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Not an Arab.

I never said hesbola, Hamas and the suicide mbombers aren't terrorists. I'm saying that if a person who says he's a Muslim kills even just one person, all Muslims becomes terrorists. Shiis are Muslims? How are they Muslims when they don't follow their own prophets ways? They can call them Muslims yet they kill other Muslims ever since they were created. Sunni = Muslims, Shiites = non Muslims who just claim to be Muslims.

Well, if shiite aren't muslims then the vast majority of Jews in Israel aren't technically jewish then either. The majority of Jews in Israel are reformed, i.e. they don't follow any of the Jewish laws. They eat non-kosher and they don't keep shabbat. The only thing that makes them Jewish is their heritage. So, by your logic the vast majority of the Jews in Israel aren't Jewish.

[humen200]

Well, if shiite aren't muslims then the vast majority of Jews in Israel aren't technically jewish then either. The majority of Jews in Israel are reformed, i.e. they don't follow any of the Jewish laws. They eat non-kosher and they don't keep shabbat. The only thing that makes them Jewish is their heritage. So, by your logic the vast majority of the Jews in Israel aren't Jewish.

Maybe they probably aren't. In my place, people actually call them zionists, not jews

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Maybe they probably aren't. In my place, people actually call them zionists, not jews

The two terms are not synonymous. Zionists refers to anyone who supports Israel, not just Jews who support Israel.

[humen200]

The two terms are not synonymous. Zionists refers to anyone who supports Israel, not just Jews who support Israel.

I never searched what zionists meant that's why I didn't know.

[jjjon123]

-snipe-

I just have to say, awesomemccoolname, that you understand the middle-east conflict way more than 90% of the politicians in western countries. I applaud you for that.

[Klappar]

quran says that allah (or god) given israel for jews