✔ P I X E L A T E D ✔ Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I got 99 problems but this post ain't one. Keys are good, ref is bad. Keys go up- no- ref goes down. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRyders Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 People are saying ref is useless here, but still forget that more then half of the items are traded for refined. You can do many things with refined, buying stranges, hats, misc, tickets. People still accept refined as currency. So it is not useless. Only for high tier items keys are needed. How many people are rich in the community? Average man is happy with refined. It seems like a hype now calling refined 'useless' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief D Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 People are saying ref is useless here, but still forget that more then half of the items are traded for refined. You can do many things with refined, buying stranges, hats, misc, tickets. People still accept refined as currency. So it is not useless. Only for high tier items keys are needed. How many people are rich in the community? Average man is happy with refined. It seems like a hype now calling refined 'useless' you do realize BTF is not the main cause of the rise, right? Keys will rise no matter what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRyders Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 you do realize BTF is not the main cause of the rise, right? Keys will rise no matter what we do. Its not the main cause, but it sure does speed up everything. It doesnt give room to stablize with all the suggestions that are opened daily and accepted once every 3 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Why it is their responsibility? Because bp.tf is seen by many people as the standard guide for pricings. And as a leader it is natural to step up and do something about it. Like not allowing voting on keys for a while for example You still aren't getting my point. Why is THIS something they need to "step up and do something" about? What about the people that are unhappy that their unusuals are valued under 1 bud? Why shouldn't backpack.tf do anything about that? What about the people who feel craft hats should include 1 ref in the range because it is possible to buy at that price? What about people who are angry about uncraftables costing more than craftables? What about people who are unhappy with the BMOC falling so much? Why doesn't backpack.tf start to raise the values of the 2012 festive, since so many people think they will eventually be the same as the 2011's. The only thing that makes this situation special is that in your opinion, keys should cost less than they do (and will). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRyders Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 You still aren't getting my point. Why is THIS something they need to "step up and do something" about? What about the people that are unhappy that their unusuals are valued under 1 bud? Why shouldn't backpack.tf do anything about that? What about the people who feel craft hats should include 1 ref in the range because it is possible to buy at that price? What about people who are angry about uncraftables costing more than craftables? What about people who are unhappy with the BMOC falling so much? Why doesn't backpack.tf start to raise the values of the 2012 festive, since so many people think they will eventually be the same as the 2011's. The only thing that makes this situation special is that in your opinion, keys should cost less than they do (and will). I think it's the other way around, you don't get my point. Read my post again and maybe you get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I think it's the other way around, you don't get my point. Read my post again and maybe you get it Why it is their responsibility? Because bp.tf is seen by many people as the standard guide for pricings. And as a leader it is natural to step up and do something about it. Like not allowing voting on keys for a while for example Read. Understood. Now answer the questions in my first paragraph. What makes keys special? Other than you wanting them to be cheaper so that you can afford them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSC Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 So how come prices rise even when there is no suggestion (or recent accepted suggestion)? Resellers want the price of keys to go up, therefore makes a trade of 4.22-4.33. People are stupid enough to buy keys, suggesters would use these as proof, and gather a lot. Traders know backpack.tf would inevitably get a suggestion to raise the price. Its a property that can easily be abused. Once a suggestion gets accepted they would even be more motivated to highball since backpack.tf would get another price hike anyway, and highball sales proof can quicken the hike. Can't say of traders are influencing backpack.tf on purpose (i.e. trying to make prices go up), or the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC22 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Resellers want the price of keys to go up, therefore makes a trade of 4.22-4.33. People are stupid enough to buy keys, suggesters would use these as proof, and gather a lot. Traders know backpack.tf would inevitably get a suggestion to raise the price. Its a property that can easily be abused. Once a suggestion gets accepted they would even be more motivated to highball since backpack.tf would get another price hike anyway, and highball sales proof can quicken the hike. Can't say of traders are influencing backpack.tf on purpose (i.e. trying to make prices go up), or the other way around. Nothing to be done about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triforce of Charmanders Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Who cares? the people in the discussion. you aren't obligated to read or post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~shenanigans Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The purpose of backpack.tf is to be an accurate representation of the market. If keys are selling for 4-4.22 ref, then (as unfortunate as some may feel it is) that is the price we should have listed. If the NYSE tickers stopped reporting stock prices, does that mean prices suddenly stabilize? No, it would just mean people need to search harder for the actual prices. It does not stop prices from increasing or decreasing. In our case, we're not even as good as the NYSE. Our key prices need to be manually updated. Take tf2finance for example: they had the average above 4.11 before the suggestion got accepted. The prices on bp.tf are even slightly slower than those of real-time averages. If we removed keys from the pricelist, do you think people won't check tf2finance for a price? The major argument was that bp.tf is accelerating an out of control market. Let us address this one issue at a time. Many users now use bp.tf as a guide, and are willing to put items up for the listed prices. The prices are changed when enough trades occur at a new price, and usually lags behind a little. In the absence of a price guide, it creates an atmosphere of ignorance. Small time users will sell their keys for whatever price may suit them fancy, while big time traders know the whereabouts of the average price. If the small trader asks for a price lower than the average (because the small trader has no idea what the average is), big traders will come in and immediately buy those keys, and resell for more. In this case, we have small traders getting sharked out of metal they could have earned. The big traders then proceed to resell for a price higher than what they bought for, and make a profit. Is this a desirable situation? I would argue it is not. Now, with the existence of a price guide, small traders take a look, and list their keys as 4 ref. They still get instantly bought out by big traders, but now the big traders can only resell for 4.11 or 4.22 ref. It minimizes the big trader's profit, while maximizes the small-trader's potential gains. On the other hand, if a small trader is looking to buy keys, they will be met with many big traders trying to sell for higher than average prices. In the absence of a price guide, the small trader will not necessarily know which price is the best, and may end up paying a lot more for a key, when the average was actually lower. With a price guide available, the small trader will see that 4.22 is the top of the range, so it should be possible to buy for that price or lower. Now, does having a price guide accelerate price increase? Possibly. The big traders will also be better informed as to what the average is, and they will charge more above the average. When they manage to sell at their higher price, they start to charge more. When enough sales happen at that higher price, bp.tf's price guide updates to reflect this change, and big traders start charging even more. Is the market out of control? No, if there are still buyers at a higher price, that means demand is still there. Call these people whatever demeaning names you wish, it does not change their presence in the market. Prices can only increase if people are willing to buy, and the many trades that occur each day in key trades shows this. Unfortunately, it does not seem like a "crash" will occur, unless something drastic happens. Can you imagine a scenario where suddenly nobody is willing to pay a scrap over 3 ref for a key? Within measurable bounds, I cannot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRyders Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Read. Understood. Now answer the questions in my first paragraph. What makes keys special? Other than you wanting them to be cheaper so that you can afford them? Is that a serious question, what makes keys special? Or are you just trying to be a smart-ass? Keys are used for unboxing and trading into high tier items. While refined is a currency for lower tier items. Both have own uses. Maybe shut up? I can afford my keys very easily and most of the time I get them for 'free'. I don't do metal - key trades. Only when I am out of metal, I sell my keys for metal. I buy stuff for 30 keys and sell for 34 keys etc. Please don't state things if you don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Badger Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Guys, sorry to interrupt your discussion, but from this post (http://backpack.tf/vote/id/514bdaf6ba25360d4e000008) I just discovered this: http://imgur.com/a/4Ufv7#hDsySXP This is outrageous! This guy makes successful key suggestions all the time, but does not buy them at the suggested price. He is making it harder for us to buy keys while he is buying them illegitimately! I don't think this guy should be allowed to make key price suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distinctively Vincent Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The issue with carders comes down to buds and/or USD, not refined. Further, the convo has been discussed with steamrep. Long claims he was not being serious, there is nothing solid enough implicating him willingly and knowingly working with carders, nothing came of it. In full honesty, given his reputation and general community reaction to his involvement with key suggestions at this point, I'd prefer if he left someone else to put up key suggestions. But so long as the suggestion is sound and there is nothing official held against him, there's nothing to be done. Backpack.tf does not close suggestions solely on the basis of the user suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Is that a serious question, what makes keys special? Or are you just trying to be a smart-ass? Keys are used for unboxing and trading into high tier items. While refined is a currency for lower tier items. Both have own uses. I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm aware what keys do. You're just failing to acknowledge my argument after multiple posts. It is not backpack.tf's responsibility to thwart a natural economic event. People are upset because they are more expensive. That does not mean the economy is going to crash and burn. For backpack.tf to take some sort of action different from its purpose would be an attempt to affect the market, which would take away any credibility for the site being unbiased. I'll let you have the last word, since this doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRyders Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm aware what keys do. You're just failing to acknowledge my argument after multiple posts. It is not backpack.tf's responsibility to thwart a natural economic event. People are upset because they are more expensive. That does not mean the economy is going to crash and burn. For backpack.tf to take some sort of action different from its purpose would be an attempt to affect the market, which would take away any credibility for the site being unbiased. I'll let you have the last word, since this doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Don't act like a snob. I have told you many times and you still act like a smart ass. You are really wiseacre 'It is not backpack.tf's responsibility to thwart a natural economic event.' That is your opinion. Why should I acknowledge it? I have my own opinion thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 'It is not backpack.tf's responsibility to thwart a natural economic event.' That is your opinion. Why should I acknowledge it? I have my own opinion thank you. That's not a opinion that's a fact.~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRyders Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 That's not a opinion that's a fact.~ It's a fact that BP.tf is stating current price. But its also his opinion that BP.tf shouldn't thwart natural economic event. So it is subjective, I have my opinion too, that backpack.tf should regulate the key price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killjoy Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 We should dictate the prices to whatever fits what I want. Everyone, sell me your Hearts Unusuals for 1 Bud each. High tier hats only, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@@@@@@ Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 We should dictate the prices to whatever fits what I want. Everyone, sell me your Hearts Unusuals for 1 Bud each. High tier hats only, please. added for heart veil, heart noble, heart dead cone, heart festivizer, and heart pugilist I CAN'T WAIT TO GET MY 5 BUDS!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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