Internet Piracy Thread

[Heated Bread]

Speaking of asshole indie devs...

 

Would piracy even be able to hurt sales of a game that bad?

[Gent♥]

Would piracy even be able to hurt sales of a game that bad?

 

God I hope so.

[Python.]

If you're caught, so what

If you're not, grats

Wanna help the dev? Fine

Don't want to help the dev? Also fine

Fuck any and all reasons. You're downloading a game for free, most likely won't get caught, and you'll reap the benefits

If devs or your government wouldn't want you doing it, it would cease to exist already. They don't care enough

 

tfw people talking about ethics when most trade in TF2 and literally the only way to make profit is to be unethical

[Дебра]

-snip-

 

 

Phishing link, don't click.

[Heated Bread]

tfw people talking about ethics when most trade in TF2 and literally the only way to make profit is to be unethical

 

no that's the only way YOU know how to make profit.  apparently.  try cycling currency between different markets, for starters.  it's dead simple and takes advantage of the different valuations in different areas of trading.  or you could just try buying quicksells for a while, all the time announcing that you specifically want quicksells.  nothing unethical there as long as you aren't fencing for scammers.

 

that's just two methods off the top of my head.  you're not trying hard enough if you think the only way to trade for profit is to screw people over.

[Python.]

Buying something for less than what it is worth (AKA Quicksells, Sharking, etc.) then selling it for what it is worth or more is, by definition, unethical

The Quicksell was available to everyone, yes, but you got it, and now you can mark up the price for a profit

 

Just like paying nothing for a game that costs something is, by definition, unethical

 

The only way for a trade to not be unethical is if both parties are not making a profit or losing anything they don't have to

 

In lamence terms, the only way to be ethical in trading is to break even, which is fundamentally impossible

 

Now pull up your pants and agree to disagree rather than jabbing at another person

 

 

dead simple and takes advantage of

Because when something is simple and easily taken advantage of, you know it's good ethics.

This is obviously the definition ethical

[wallywalrus_]

If being a seven year old and pirating sony vegas to make the leethaxor420 clubpenguin videos count, yes I have. Once.

[puddingkip]

Bullsittius Ultimus Maximus

What the hell is wrong with your ethics?

 

In my world only scamming (stealing) and sharking (the proper meaning, talking somebody to believe their product is worth less than it's actual value i.e. "your burning tc is worth roughly the same as my ellis cap, wanna trade?") are unethical.

If you believe that making profit is unethical what the hell are you doing in the capitalist world. Go to North Korea, the worlds only remaining non-capitalist country

[There]

When you buy something for a quicksell price, it is ethical because they CONSENT. They ADD YOU AND PRESS COMPLETE TRADE. If someone felt so "wronged" by a trade, they wouldn't do it. There's nothing forcing them to sell their strange for .33 under market price.

 

Sharking is different because they don't know that they're selling under market price. Scamming is different because you don't give them an option. 

[Heated Bread]

Buying something for less than what it is worth (AKA Quicksells, Sharking, etc.) then selling it for what it is worth or more is, by definition, unethical

The Quicksell was available to everyone, yes, but you got it, and now you can mark up the price for a profit

 

Just like paying nothing for a game that costs something is, by definition, unethical

 

The only way for a trade to not be unethical is if both parties are not making a profit or losing anything they don't have to

 

In lamence terms, the only way to be ethical in trading is to break even, which is fundamentally impossible

 

Now pull up your pants and agree to disagree rather than jabbing at another person

 

Because when something is simple and easily taken advantage of, you know it's good ethics.

This is obviously the definition ethical

 

No, it's not available to everyone.  It's available to you and a small group of competitors because you are one of the people actively going out and seeking these deals.  Some guy sitting on his butt not doing anything is not in the same boat as you, and the deal is not available to him because he hasn't bothered to put in the time and effort to go looking for it, and so doesn't even know about it in the first place.

 

You're behaving as though you believe that proactively seeking good deals is somehow stealing.  It's not.  When a seller decides that they want to get rid of something quickly, they drop the price, and a buyer comes along at the right time to be ahead of everyone else and gets it.  That's fair.  You're not cheating anyone.

 

You seem to think that seeking and seizing opportunity is unethical.  Somehow.  Nevermind that the buyer and the seller both understand that an item is being quicksold.  No, it's bad.  Why?  Because a profit is being made.  Sorry, but what?

 

Do you also think stores are bad because they buy from distributors and then mark up the price?  Do you think distributors are bad because they buy from manufacturers and mark up the price?  Do you think manufacturers are bad because they sell the labor of their workers for profit?  This is capitalism.  The reality is that at each point along the chain, some party is inserting themselves in the middle in order to gain profit from a markup.  That's not evil.  They're all providing a service to one another.  And if at any point one party is unhappy, they are free to seek relationships with other parties.  The unfair thing would be if several of them got together and colluded to form an oligopoly because that would be anti-competitive.

 

Same applies to quicksales.  Any potential buyer is free to jump in provided they get there in time, and they can compete with one another over who might offer just that little bit higher to get the deal.  As for the seller, he/she just wants currency fast, and that need is being serviced by the buyer.  No ethical problems there.  Selling things at full price often takes time that some people can't or won't put in.

 

So tell me how any of that is at all unethical "by definition" as you say.  By what definition exactly?

[Uncle Dong]

Honestly i would never pay $10 or more for something that will entertain me for about an hour or 2 and never watch again

But for games its different sometimes i pirate old games you cant get anymore like Scarface The Game or to simply see if i can run the game and if i can ill buy it and if the game is single player no achievements or trading cards then i would just pirate it usually its really old games like hitman 2 or something

[Seminal Inhalation]

 

 

'Oh, I'm pirating FIFA 15 because I don't agree with EA's approach to their consumer base'

No, you're pirating because you're a cheapskate, get off your high horse.

People are pirating it because they don't want to support EA's bullshit. They've been doing it for awhile now, and it's gotten to the point where they don't care about the quality of their games, or their community, but just profiting.

[Heated Bread]

People are pirating it because they don't want to support EA's bullshit. They've been doing it for awhile now, and it's gotten to the point where they don't care about the quality of their games, or their community, but just profiting.

 

I don't like EA, but I personally wouldn't pirate their games.  Why would I?  I've got this huge fucking backlog of awesome games for starters, and there are tons of games I'd love to buy that have nothing nothing to do with EA.  Fuck EA.  It's easy enough to avoid them with all the diversity of games out there.  I have absolutely no reason to pirate anything they've put their shitty stamp on.  I actually really don't have a reason to pirate any game these days, least of all some dumb sports title from EA.

 

Honestly I don't understand why anyone over 18 would still pirate games at this point unless they live somewhere where the game can't be bought or they are just simply too poor to afford it.  Steam even lets you trade for games, so if you can make a little bit of profit trading, you can get all the games you want.  Why pirate when you can get a legit 100% legal copy for free?

[Pyrocide]

[Python.]

No, it's not available to everyone.  It's available to you and a small group of competitors because you are one of the people actively going out and seeking these deals.  Some guy sitting on his butt not doing anything is not in the same boat as you, and the deal is not available to him because he hasn't bothered to put in the time and effort to go looking for it, and so doesn't even know about it in the first place.

 

You're behaving as though you believe that proactively seeking good deals is somehow stealing.  It's not.  When a seller decides that they want to get rid of something quickly, they drop the price, and a buyer comes along at the right time to be ahead of everyone else and gets it.  That's fair.  You're not cheating anyone.

 

You seem to think that seeking and seizing opportunity is unethical.  Somehow.  Nevermind that the buyer and the seller both understand that an item is being quicksold.  No, it's bad.  Why?  Because a profit is being made.  Sorry, but what?

 

Do you also think stores are bad because they buy from distributors and then mark up the price?  Do you think distributors are bad because they buy from manufacturers and mark up the price?  Do you think manufacturers are bad because they sell the labor of their workers for profit?  This is capitalism.  The reality is that at each point along the chain, some party is inserting themselves in the middle in order to gain profit from a markup.  That's not evil.  They're all providing a service to one another.  And if at any point one party is unhappy, they are free to seek relationships with other parties.  The unfair thing would be if several of them got together and colluded to form an oligopoly because that would be anti-competitive.

 

Same applies to quicksales.  Any potential buyer is free to jump in provided they get there in time, and they can compete with one another over who might offer just that little bit higher to get the deal.  As for the seller, he/she just wants currency fast, and that need is being serviced by the buyer.  No ethical problems there.  Selling things at full price often takes time that some people can't or won't put in.

 

So tell me how any of that is at all unethical "by definition" as you say.  By what definition exactly?

No

 

What the hell is wrong with your ethics?

 

In my world only scamming (stealing) and sharking (the proper meaning, talking somebody to believe their product is worth less than it's actual value i.e. "your burning tc is worth roughly the same as my ellis cap, wanna trade?") are unethical.

If you believe that making profit is unethical what the hell are you doing in the capitalist world. Go to North Korea, the worlds only remaining non-capitalist country

By definition, profit is unethical. It's not my definition. I'm not saying I agree. It's just the way it is

[w0lk]

Mr.Flamewar ( Gent ) strikes again.

 

I thought this guy gonna change after the last time.

 

Guess not, there goes his mod app.

[puddingkip]

No

 

 

By definition, profit is unethical. It's not my definition. I'm not saying I agree. It's just the way it is

Ethics aren't solid, they differ over time and culture. In our culture wedding your sister is unethical, in Zoroastrian and Macedonian Hellenistic states it was very ethical and even sacred.

Slavery was perfectly fine in ancient Rome, it's unethical now.

 

What I'm trying to say is that ethics differ. In my ethics profit isn't wrong, and neither in general western society as laws are based on the common ethics and I've never heard of any western nation banning profit. It makes no sense.

 

So why do you think that profit is unethical, as I can't grasp the reason.

[Ragdoll]

Since when was making profit unethical?

[Heated Bread]

Ethics aren't solid, they differ over time and culture. In our culture wedding your sister is unethical, in Zoroastrian and Macedonian Hellenistic states it was very ethical and even sacred.

Slavery was perfectly fine in ancient Rome, it's unethical now.

 

What I'm trying to say is that ethics differ. In my ethics profit isn't wrong, and neither in general western society as laws are based on the common ethics and I've never heard of any western nation banning profit. It makes no sense.

 

So why do you think that profit is unethical, as I can't grasp the reason.

 

If you judge things by how harmful they may or may not be to individuals or groups, this turns out to be a great standard for determining what might be moral vs immoral behavior.  In fact, I would argue that it's the natural tendency people have, and that things like dogma and ignorance get in the way of what would otherwise be an easy moral judgement, which is a problem that was much more pervasive in the past than in the present, which is how I'd argue things like slavery and incest were more acceptable to people.

 

The trouble I'm having is in determining why someone would believe that making profit is itself an unethical thing.  The only attempt I saw which comes close to addressing this problem was a false equivocation between sharking and quickbuying.  That was easily dismissed, since quickbuyers advertise that they are quickbuying and therefore the seller is aware that they are getting a deal which is below market value, which means no sharking is taking place. But apparently we are supposed to just accept that profit is "by definition" unethical, and in the absence of any ethical standard or definition which demonstrates the claim.

 

Something tells me we're not going to get this information...

[Vintage Jesus]

I only pirate AAA singleplayer games, indie and multiplayer games I buy

 

And yeah I do it because I am a cheapskate and dont make very much money

[Heated Bread]

I only pirate AAA singleplayer games, indie and multiplayer games I buy

 

And yeah I do it because I am a cheapskate and dont make very much money

 

So if you had more money, you wouldn't pirate?

 

Do you also think perhaps games are too expensive and that this is the fault of the publishers?  If so, how?

[Vintage Jesus]

So if you had more money, you wouldn't pirate?

 

Yeah most likely. 

[Python.]

So why do you think that profit is unethical, as I can't grasp the reason.

I don't

Just using the definition given by the dictionary

It's kind of a juxtaposition that trading ethics are in a sense unethical

[Heated Bread]

So why do you think that profit is unethical, as I can't grasp the reason.

I don't

Just using the definition given by the dictionary

It's kind of a juxtaposition that trading ethics are in a sense unethical

 

okay, but you said this:

 

tfw people talking about ethics when most trade in TF2 and literally the only way to make profit is to be unethical

 

Do you not see why people might come to think that you think profit is unethical?

 

I would like to see the steps you've taken in concluding that profit is unethical by definition.  I think a good place to start is with the definition(s) you're working with.  Then you can talk us through it.

[Python.]

You win

I can't keep coming back to this

Use whatever definition you want, I'm out