Views on Religion

[Heated Bread]

New question: Could the creator create the creator? Eg. could a god create itself? 

 

The question might just be nonsensical.

 

When we normally talk about creating things, it's by rearranging already existing materials into something which we call "new", but really it's just made out of the same stuff that has always been around.  It could also mean creating ideas, such as my idea of the invisible squirrel ghosts.  But even that idea was built out of concepts that I already had in my head. 

 

When I was a newborn child, I had to begin the process of gradually learning to properly interpret sensory data to build a workable model of the world out of it.  I was just working with what I was forced to (the natural world).  Then I was fed concepts by my parents and teachers.  In most cases I was able to digest them and understand them by taking the components and rebuilding them in my mind, like being given a set of parts and an instruction manual.  At a certain age, people become very good at this.  The brain itself also functions by known physical processes; by spending energy which is gained through breaking down of raw materials (food).

 

So I don't really know of anything that is not apparently created out of already existing parts, and this includes ideas.  The idea of creation is also a temporal one (requires time).  So you'd have to be talking about an intelligent being going through a process that is bound by time, and who is taking already existing materials and forming something new out of them.  So then it would have to follow that a being creating itself would involve backwards time travel.  But at this point you're not talking about a god, are you?  You're just talking about an intelligent temporal being of limited nature such as ourselves, the only notable difference being that we don't have the ability to travel backwards through time.

[There]

The question might just be nonsensical.

 

When we normally talk about creating things, it's by rearranging already existing materials.  It could also mean creating ideas.  Like my idea of the invisible squirrel ghosts.  But even that idea was built out of concepts that I already had in my head.  When I was a child, I learned to properly process sensory data to build a workable interpretation of the world out of it.  I was just working with what I was forced to (the natural world).  Then I was fed concepts by my parents and teachers.  In most cases I was able to digest them and understand them by taking the components and rebuilding them in my mind, like being given a set of parts and an instruction manual.  At a certain age, people become very good at this.  The brain itself also functions by known physical processes; by spending energy which is gained through breaking down of raw materials (food).

 

So I don't really know of anything that is not apparently created out of already existing parts, and this includes ideas.  The idea of creation is also a temporal one (requires time).  So you'd have to be talking about an intelligent being bound by time who is taking already existing material and forming something new.  So then it would have to follow that a being creating itself would have to involve backwards time travel.  But at this point you're not talking about a god, are you?  You're just talking about an intelligent temporal being of limited nature such as ourselves, the only notable difference being that we don't have the ability to travel backwards through time.

 

That's a pretty fair response, but I'm more interested in possible answers to the "if x created y, who/what created x". If a being possessed the ability to create something from nothing, matter, space, even time, is it unreasonable to suggest that this being could have created itself? An omnipotent being who is truly "omnipotent" would be able to do anything, correct? Does this not mean create itself?

Thanks for your responses in this thread, it's really interesting

[Heated Bread]

That's a pretty fair response, but I'm more interested in possible answers to the "if x created y, who/what created x". If a being possessed the ability to create something from nothing, matter, space, even time, is it unreasonable to suggest that this being could have created itself? An omnipotent being who is truly "omnipotent" would be able to do anything, correct? Does this not mean create itself?

Thanks for your responses in this thread, it's really interesting

 

I don't have any examples of "nothing".  That idea seem like total nonsense.  Nothing is that which does not exist.  We only have examples of things which do exist. 

 

Let me try to put this another way.  Right now, there is not a pool table in the room with me.  I want to create a fire.  Can I build that fire out of the pool table which does not exist in the room with me?  No.  I can't.  That idea is nonsense.  If you're saying to me that there exists a being who can do that, then you're saying to me that this being is illogical, and that I have to be illogical to believe in that being.

[Euphoria]

im atheist.

dont believe in god any other spiritual entity other than lana del rey.

[whopz]

matter cannot be created or destroyed, only change from on form to another. either the universe we know is a creation of a different universe from a time period before ours, or it was created from nothing by a god. since we know something can't be created from nothing, i'm going to say a god cannot create itself.

[TheMightyPotato]

We're all stupid. There, problem solved.

[Grimes]

We're all stupid. There, problem solved.

 

Did you really have to wake this thread up again? *facepalm*

[TheMightyPotato]

Did you really have to wake this thread up again? *facepalm*

 

Now that you mention it, not really sure why I did that. ._.

[Professional Map Painter]

This is simply brilliant.