Issue with duplicated items.

[ThunderClaus]

As stated in this price suggetion, by Brad Pitt himself (last post): http://backpack.tf/v...d7b8af2a000001 and http://backpack.tf/vote/id/512be55c4bd7b8c160000016

"Yeah, the price is definitely lower for duped ones. But that's nothing new. I am pretty sure we've established in the past that the prices are based on clean items and not quick sell/duped items. Sorry, I have to close this one for lack of proof towards clean sales."

 

And these ones by Sir Jon (last post): 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5104a042ba2536071f000000

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51119d9eba25366d5a000003 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51037483ba2536c92e000001

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5104a2f4ba2536974a000000

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5106375fba2536e81f000001

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5118f9aaba2536c324000001

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5119d094ba25362a40000002

"Needs proof of non-duped c/os. Im not lowering a price based off of duped trades no matter how low they may be."

 

YET these ones got accepted (by same admin, and the proof is duped)

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5103d2d4ba2536e365000001

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/510677c3ba25368770000001

My complaint/problem is that in these price suggestions the proof was all tf2outpost trades of duped rare vintage's buyouts/current offers and it got accepted:
http://backpack.tf/v...a2536fd4a000003
http://backpack.tf/v...a25365d60000001
http://backpack.tf/v...a25366d5a000003
http://backpack.tf/v...a25362768000002

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/511eb9eeba2536991c000001

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5124cde34bd7b82a22000008

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5128b8c2ba2536e258000001

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51190557ba25366210000002

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/511d691dba25366757000003

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/510677c3ba25368770000001

 

This price suggestion got denied, but he has proof that "duped" ones are selling for much cheaper then the suggested value: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51280846ba2536db71000002 This is significant because so many suggestions are being accepted for duped bo/cos yet this one failed. Also note that "1" clean earbud's c/os effected the dozens of "duped" ones...

I think a rule has to be set up, or more so a proper way of handling duplicated/clean items (of this tier) because some price suggestions are being denied (like the one you closed brad) and some are being accepted (like the 4 I posted) (possibly having "duped value/clean value" for every item/items over 10 buds?)

And my final complaint is notice how on the 4th link for the "vintage companion cube pin" the vote percentage was 11 positive and 17 negative (40% a.k.a - F) and it still got accepted. Does the "voting" even matter, because lately I feel its more over the admins choice, then the community. And the way bp.tf has introduced themselves is community based.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Well, the votes do matter, most of the admins try to explain their reasoning if they are going to accept something with <50% acceptance (Do more research+Explain why the voters are wrong, and the suggester is correct).

 

And as for duped items....I personally think the prices should be based on the most common version (in the case of rare vintages that means the duped ones should set the price...). Yes, there are inherent problems, but there are more duped than non-duped, so its the duped ones that'll really set the market.

[ThunderClaus]

Well, the votes do matter, most of the admins try to explain their reasoning if they are going to accept something with <50% acceptance (Do more research+Explain why the voters are wrong, and the suggester is correct).

 

And as for duped items....I personally think the prices should be based on the most common version (in the case of rare vintages that means the duped ones should set the price...). Yes, there are inherent problems, but there are more duped than non-duped, so its the duped ones that'll really set the market.

If thats the case, then this post: http://backpack.tf/v...d7b8af2a000001. should be accepted. (duped)

And this post: http://backpack.tf/v...a25362768000002 denied. (voted)

 

We need to handle the dupes all the same way, some are falling because price suggestions are showing duped, some are staying the same because admins say dupes dont matter, only clean. 

some are even raising because clean ones are being sold for more then the duped: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5126d3714bd7b87812000001

 

Its a big mess...

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

If thats the case, then this post: http://backpack.tf/v...d7b8af2a000001. should be accepted. (duped)

And this post: http://backpack.tf/v...a25362768000002 denied. (voted)

 

We need to handle the dupes all the same way, some are falling because price suggestions are showing duped, some are staying the same because admins say dupes dont matter, only clean. 

some are even raising because clean ones are being sold for more then the duped: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5126d3714bd7b87812000001

 

Its a big mess...

Rare vintages have always been a mess.... It's Perfect...

 

But in all seriousness, something should be done...but the question is what. 

[The Killjoy]

There are times where there are more duped hats on the market than the clean ones, though.

[Jymotion]

As stated in this price suggetion, by Brad Pitt himself (last post): http://backpack.tf/v...d7b8af2a000001.

 

Remove the period from the url if you can.

 

Another instance of a duped price suggestions being accepted: http://backpack.tf/vote/220/3/0

Maybe a special case since there are only 2 in existence and only the duped/hijacked one is available for trade, but it should be specified IMO.

 

 

​

There are times where there are more duped hats on the market than the clean ones, though.

 

Assuming they are still valued differently, it should be specified (again, my opinion).

[ThunderClaus]

Rare vintages have always been a mess.... It's Perfect...

 

But in all seriousness, something should be done...but the question is what. 

Maybe having a "duped" price and "clean" price for high tier items feature added to bp.tf pricelist?

 

 

There are times where there are more duped hats on the market than the clean ones, though.

Exactly, that is the big deal here..see so many dupes and so little cleans and prices being accepted/denied based on clean value, yet there are still prices being accepted based on duped value. Its all a mess.

 

Remove the period from the url if you can.

 

Another instance of a duped price suggestions being accepted: http://backpack.tf/vote/220/3/0

Maybe a special case since there are only 2 in existence and only the duped/hijacked one is available for trade, but it should be specified IMO.

 

 

​

 

Assuming they are still valued differently, it should be specified (again, my opinion).

Fixed it.

Yeah, that could work too.

[Woifi The Viking]

This was already brought up before: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/1/864958435878239507/

I agree there should be something done.

[ThunderClaus]

This was already bought up before: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/1/864958435878239507/

I agree there should be something done.

Indeed, and thanks for pointing that out as well

[Woifi The Viking]

Also burning modest/anger/milkman have more dupes on the market then clean ones I guess. And many other hats of course.

[MC22]

How does one dupe a hat? Is it impossible now?

[Woifi The Viking]

I guess most are duped through steam support when an account gets hijacked.

[Liddojunior]

I thought people stopped caring if an item is duped or not.

And only certain people will pay more for clean items.

[The Killjoy]

Depends, if one item is massively duped then a lot of people care. If it's just one dupe then most people don't.

[Rhys13th]

Depends, if one item is massively duped then a lot of people care. If it's just one dupe then most people don't.

 

 

It actually depends more on supply.If there's a one of one item that gets duped, like a below 100 craft # or a rare Unusual, it'll play havoc far more with the price than duping yet another Stormy Storm Outdoorsman.

[☣Long218☢]

mods are inconsistent on these suggestions. some of my duped suggestions went through but many did not.

[Woifi The Viking]

Another suggestion: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/512e53944bd7b87335000010

These duped items are really a special case it seems and I think we should base the price on duped ones if there are i.e. 10 dupes vs 1 clean.

Any other thoughts for this?

[TNC Phoenix®]

This about clean and duped really should in a way end. 
I have seen too many trades on outpost where players claim to be selling clean items which then turns out to be false, for taking this duped-clean-discussion serious anymore.

Basically if you are "clean collector" then you have to look up every item yourself. And not even then can you be 100 % sure. Some items have the statement "may be duped or have been deleted" cause some point in its history it was in a private backpack and thus did not exist when the software did the search.

And really where is the big difference?
Is a vintage duped bud soooooo different from a clean vintage bud?
When I asked about it, the difference I got informed was that the duped items shared same ID once in a time. So some numbers on a ID should make such a huge difference in an items value?

The collectors live in their own world, and they dont care about the price here anyways. Or at least thats what some of them write over and over. "Dont come here using backpack-prices" is what you get for even suggesting a price in the range here on backpack. 

If a guy can show trades for a vintage bud at 15 buds, then a vintage bud can be bought for 15 buds. 
Valve doesnt make a difference between the items, then why should the price here do?

Sidenote:
People that get scammed and gets item restored by steam support, are their items not duped as well?
Meaning their items get lower value, since its duped, for something they could not help. That seems rather unlogic. 
(If I am misinformed of anything above, do tell. I base what others told me and showed about the systems and trading)

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

 

And as for duped items....I personally think the prices should be based on the most common version (in the case of rare vintages that means the duped ones should set the price...). Yes, there are inherent problems, but there are more duped than non-duped, so its the duped ones that'll really set the market.

[Woifi The Viking]

For vintages this is true but what about unusuals? There are some buds difference between a clean and a duped burning modest/anger for example and there are more duped modests on the market than clean ones for example.

[Brad Pitt]

I personally think that VALVe should fix this shit, and when they restore items they should get their own brand new ID. This item duplication makes it hard to track owners of items because say, 1 earbud that's been duped 20 times has 20x bigger owner history.

 

I don't think backpack.tf should facilitate the valuation of duped items. I think duped items is something outside of the market and it should stay that way. If people are willing to buy duped items at a lower cost, it's their own decision (like my sparkle lugermorph) -- but in the end, I just VALVe would deal with this and resolve this issue once for all.

[ThunderClaus]

Well for now the big issue is that on bp.tf some item price suggestions are being accepted based on offers/buyouts people have on duped vintages, driving the price of the once before clean ones down. Some are being closed down (like the max head one you did the other day) but at the same note, some get accepted (like the recent ones for the big kill, luger, companion cube) etc etc

[ThunderClaus]

This about clean and duped really should in a way end. 

I have seen too many trades on outpost where players claim to be selling clean items which then turns out to be false, for taking this duped-clean-discussion serious anymore.

 

Basically if you are "clean collector" then you have to look up every item yourself. And not even then can you be 100 % sure. Some items have the statement "may be duped or have been deleted" cause some point in its history it was in a private backpack and thus did not exist when the software did the search.

 

And really where is the big difference?

Is a vintage duped bud soooooo different from a clean vintage bud?

When I asked about it, the difference I got informed was that the duped items shared same ID once in a time. So some numbers on a ID should make such a huge difference in an items value?

 

The collectors live in their own world, and they dont care about the price here anyways. Or at least thats what some of them write over and over. "Dont come here using backpack-prices" is what you get for even suggesting a price in the range here on backpack. 

 

If a guy can show trades for a vintage bud at 15 buds, then a vintage bud can be bought for 15 buds. 

Valve doesnt make a difference between the items, then why should the price here do?

 

Sidenote:

People that get scammed and gets item restored by steam support, are their items not duped as well?

Meaning their items get lower value, since its duped, for something they could not help. That seems rather unlogic. 

(If I am misinformed of anything above, do tell. I base what others told me and showed about the systems and trading)

The mass majority (i mean literally 90%+) of duped items are from steam support- yes.

but dupers like og are the ones doing it. not "people who get scammed" because valve doesnt care for scammers.

now hijacked items.. thats another thing and they do restore (but dupers trick valve into doing it for them)

so i understand your point, but its only concerning a small percent of the many dupes out there.

[ThunderClaus]

I guess most are duped through steam support when an account gets hijacked.

most dupes are from duplicators like og. small percent are actual real hijacking issues.

[ThunderClaus]

mods are inconsistent on these suggestions. some of my duped suggestions went through but many did not.

agreed.