A Cool Down on all items

[Vince]

Over the last while, I've been noticing that suggestions have been going up for items that were dropped up to 6 hours ago in attempt to drop them even more. An example is http://backpack.tf/vote/id/539278e94cd7b8e4408b4a69 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/538df2d24cd7b862168b4adc

 

Now I have no problem with items being dropped, but by mainly of the actions of a few certain people it is starting me to wonder if backpack.tf is leading the drop of items instead of following the market, if a suggestion goes up 6 hours after it was just dropped its going to cause massive panic in the community, so here is my suggestion\

 

all items have a 3 day cool down unless interaction by valve in anyway (ie an update or a hat becomes a misc) 

 

again this suggestion is to purely help prevent backpack.tf from leading the market and to make the suggestors follow the market, like they should be.

[www.]

+1 FOR THE BRUH SEEMS RIGHT, RIGHT?

 

HES RIGHT, RIGHT?

[Grimes]

+1, i've always thought this was a rule anyway.

[♥FriendlyPyro♥]

+1, though I haven't been here for long... I always thought this was implemented, but by everyone's contradicting comments on suggestions, I'm become so confused.

[LookAtMyChicken]

Haha, they don't like what I said.

But yes a cooldown is definitely needed, on everything. At LEAST 48 hours.

[Cottonbonbon]

+1 I agree with this as well

[KoDoRiN]

Since no one replied to my thoughts on my previous post on the basically same topic, I'm going to copy and paste what I previously said

 

Alright, here's my two cents...

 

I think the main problem here is that they are being constantly lowered by buyouts, instead of defined sales. Because prices are constantly accepted via unsold buyouts instead of defined sales, that naturally causes backpack.tf to be behind, which is the main reason why the vintage prices on hats are so unreliable. There is a reason why unsold buyouts are no longer valid proof alone for unusuals. And the more suggestions being accepted by buyouts, the more backpack.tf gets behind, causing the illusion of backpack.tf "leading" the market, when actuality backpack.tf is really behind and the true market value can only be found to people that search for defined sales.

 

No, I'm not buying "it's hard to sell" excuse. When kritz reached to low 30 keys and jumped to 50 keys, kritz were selling pretty well at the suggested price slightly higher. (less than 3 days afaik) Demand can do whatever it wants.

 

tl;dr, backpack.tf is not leading the market, it's just severely behind. What I think can solve the problem is using a bigger bump. Two examples I can think of.

 

http://backpack.tf/stats/Strange/Kritzkrieg/Tradable/Craftable - In Jan 8th, kritz was 40-42 keys  and then in Jan 15 it got a fat bump to 48-51. Then it had a couple adjustments here and there, but it had a stable price for a whopping 4 months.

 

http://backpack.tf/stats/Unique/Mann%20Co.%20Supply%20Crate%20Key/Tradable/Craftable/0 - when keys got the biggest bump ever to this date, (6.44-6.55 to 6.77-6.88) it had one more adjustment to 7 refs flat and had the longest stable price according to the chart, whopping 2 months.

 

Of course, there are a few exceptions here and there, but it's the TF2 economy, anything can happen. I'm just basing it off of what I think is most logical, like Physics being a theory but logically makes sense. I think this applies to the more "stable" items where they get small adjustments here and there rather than hyped items, but I could be wrong here.

 

I think the prime solution with no silly cooldown rule or whatever shenanigans would be not accepting too conservative bumps. All the cooldown rule does to my eyes is making backpack.tf more unreliable and ignoring the true market price..

 

Feel free to add-on my thoughts and/or counteract it. 

[Slocumruls]

As I said before.... Sales should be required Period. Using buyouts only can make bp.tf either lead (it was a quicksale) or be behind (it actually sells for less) the market. 

Although, suggestors should be forced to actually suggest on varying things so yes I agree a general cooldown of 2 or 3 days is perfectly reasonable to allow sales to occur after a recent price change.

[Grimes]

Since no one replied to my thoughts on my previous post on the basically same topic, I'm going to copy and paste what I previously said

 

Alright, here's my two cents...

 

I think the main problem here is that they are being constantly lowered by buyouts, instead of defined sales. Because prices are constantly accepted via unsold buyouts instead of defined sales, that naturally causes backpack.tf to be behind, which is the main reason why the vintage prices on hats are so unreliable. There is a reason why unsold buyouts are no longer valid proof alone for unusuals. And the more suggestions being accepted by buyouts, the more backpack.tf gets behind, causing the illusion of backpack.tf "leading" the market, when actuality backpack.tf is really behind and the true market value can only be found to people that search for defined sales.

 

No, I'm not buying "it's hard to sell" excuse. When kritz reached to low 30 keys and jumped to 50 keys, kritz were selling pretty well at the suggested price slightly higher. (less than 3 days afaik) Demand can do whatever it wants.

 

tl;dr, backpack.tf is not leading the market, it's just severely behind. What I think can solve the problem is using a bigger bump. Two examples I can think of.

 

http://backpack.tf/stats/Strange/Kritzkrieg/Tradable/Craftable - In Jan 8th, kritz was 40-42 keys  and then in Jan 15 it got a fat bump to 48-51. Then it had a couple adjustments here and there, but it had a stable price for a whopping 4 months.

 

http://backpack.tf/stats/Unique/Mann%20Co.%20Supply%20Crate%20Key/Tradable/Craftable/0 - when keys got the biggest bump ever to this date, (6.44-6.55 to 6.77-6.88) it had one more adjustment to 7 refs flat and had the longest stable price according to the chart, whopping 2 months.

 

Of course, there are a few exceptions here and there, but it's the TF2 economy, anything can happen. I'm just basing it off of what I think is most logical, like Physics being a theory but logically makes sense. I think this applies to the more "stable" items where they get small adjustments here and there rather than hyped items, but I could be wrong here.

 

I think the prime solution with no silly cooldown rule or whatever shenanigans would be not accepting too conservative bumps. All the cooldown rule does to my eyes is making backpack.tf more unreliable and ignoring the true market price..

 

Feel free to add-on my thoughts and/or counteract it. 

 

The thing is, un-educated traders see the suggestion's and instantly panic and lower their prices. If there are suggestion one after the other, this compounds.

[Teh Betmon]

The thing is, un-educated traders see the suggestion's and instantly panic and lower their prices. If there are suggestion one after the other, this compounds.

Which makes people think that we're controlling the market.

[OverduePixels]

Over the last while, I've been noticing that suggestions have been going up for items that were dropped up to 6 hours ago in attempt to drop them even more. An example is http://backpack.tf/vote/id/539278e94cd7b8e4408b4a69 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/538df2d24cd7b862168b4adc

 

Now I have no problem with items being dropped, but by mainly of the actions of a few certain people it is starting me to wonder if backpack.tf is leading the drop of items instead of following the market, if a suggestion goes up 6 hours after it was just dropped its going to cause massive panic in the community, so here is my suggestion\

 

I completely disagree with this and in support what KoD said.

 

There is no need for cooldown on any other items.

 

Some items will have time to time crashes. They might go down/up quick every now and then....And sometimes they might go up/down steadily. The items eventually comes back to stable price at some point.

 

Again, there is no need for cooldown on any other items.

 

You see many things, foods, and other stuff going up and down a lot in real life as well. Price of things have their moment but they stable down soon.

~

As always backpack.tf goes with what the current market trend of that item is. If such cooldowns is implemented we will also lag behind on prices on tons of items. 

___________________________________

 

 

The thing is, un-educated traders see the suggestion's and instantly panic and lower their prices. If there are suggestion one after the other, this compounds.

 

If they are uneducated they should first get educated before really getting into the community. Everyone here was uneducated, even I was but I learned. If they refuse to, its their fault not bp.tf

[KoDoRiN]

The thing is, un-educated traders see the suggestion's and instantly panic and lower their prices. If there are suggestion one after the other, this compounds.

It's about time they get a reality check when they finally see other people have lower buyouts than them for days. If the low-end is quicksells (I don't count a day as a qs tbh), they should know better to follow suit. Not backpack.tf's fault but rather their ignorance.

[HusKy]

+1

The kritzkrieg example is ridiculous.

[Santa Heavy]

I thought this was common sense but I feel like 3 days is too many. 1-2 should suffice.

[OverduePixels]

+1

The kritzkrieg example is ridiculous.

 

 

I thought this was common sense but I feel like 3 days is too many. 1-2 should suffice.

I would encourage both of you to read what I and KoDoRin said above.

[HusKy]

I would encourage both of you to read what I and KoDoRin said above.

Price doesn't change during a 6 hour period. Not for strange Kritzkrieg. The previous suggestion was probably incorrect in this case. (?)

[whopz]

omg collectors need another scrap drop after 20 mins! save teh refs!!

 

all cool downs are market manipulation. deal with the items dropping or rising

[Space Jesus]

Remove buyouts/unsolds from being valid proof. If you do not have enough actual sales, refrain from suggesting or wait until more sales have occurred. Cooldowns should only be considered if we *already* have the anti-B/O policy in place and it's believed that we are leading the market.

 

Using unsolds for proof is a dumb idea, and that should be addressed way before you even begin to ask the question of cooldowns. Srs guys it's not too hard

[Slocumruls]

omg collectors need another scrap drop after 20 mins! save teh refs!!

 

all cool downs are market manipulation. deal with the items dropping or rising

I would actually argue that consistently dropping the same item over and over again (in some cases only a bit, Hello removing the high end on s. kritzkrieg a couple hours after the previous suggestion was accepted) is actually a form of price manipulation because it convinces the public that the item is a "bad investment" and that it will be even cheaper once people here drop it yet again (since they've seen it drop after each suggestion). 

 

 

Remove buyouts/unsolds from being valid proof. If you do not have enough actual sales, refrain from suggesting or wait until more sales have occurred. Cooldowns should only be considered if we *already* have the anti-B/O policy in place and it's believed that we are leading the market.

 

Using unsolds for proof is a dumb idea, and that should be addressed way before you even begin to ask the question of cooldowns. Srs guys it's not too hard

I would tend to agree. Removing buyouts/unsolds as accepted proof would pretty much remove the need for a cooldown. If the sale happened before the last suggestion was accepted then it shouldn't be usable in a new suggestion (that isn't a counter of course). 

[whopz]

I would actually argue that consistently dropping the same item over and over again (in some cases only a bit, Hello removing the high end on s. kritzkrieg a couple hours after the previous suggestion was accepted) is actually a form of price manipulation because it convinces the public that the item is a "bad investment" and that it will be even cheaper once people here drop it yet again (since they've seen it drop after each suggestion). 

nope. this is exactly how markets are meant to function. if you think tf2 game items are "investments" you need to get your head checked. their trade prices are their trade prices. if people shit themselves and quicksell, they are contributing to the continual drop of an item in a natural marketplace in a free trade economy. if a strange krtiz doesn't sell for a day a key below the range, the market has changed and the item price is outdated. if people are trying to buy them above bp.tf listed range, the price is outdated (or the buyer is lazy/stupid)

[Slocumruls]

BP.tf is NOT a Live graph of the current Trade Value of an Item. It is supposed to be a report of what the things actually sell for. I will continue with the example of the strange kritz where the 36 key seller is already sold and one of the 37 key sellers. Considering both of those sales are within the CURRENT range there is absolutely no justification for another suggestion. Multiple sellers below the current range might be enough to constitute a drop but realistically bp.tf should be waiting for actual sales to happen. 

 

And no I don't look at things as "investments" but many thousands of people do and those are the people that are heavily influenced by the arrows and prices quoted on bp.tf

[whopz]

if the proof is bad the suggestion shouldn't pass. if bp.tf isn't a live graph then it's not going to be as precisely accurate as people believe items to be. it's all complete speculation anyway, i don't think most items are worth half of what people pay. is a s. krits really that good that you'd pay $70 for a regular strange weapon? insanity i tell ya

[Slocumruls]

People pay more than 70$ pretty often actually http://steamcommunity.com/market/listings/440/Strange%20Kritzkrieg

Nobody said that bp.tf is super accurate. In fact, most of the suggestions that are introduced immediately after another accepted suggestion are trying to make bp.tf more accurate than it can actually be.

[emilights.com]

I think 7 x 24 hours:

 

More people play on weekly basis. And kids get shocked easily ... a week will be enough to see the buying appetite

[OverduePixels]

I think 7 x 24 hours:

 

More people play on weekly basis. And kids get shocked easily ... a week will be enough to see the buying appetite

It is not bp.tf fault that "kids" or "uneducated" traders get shocked. Again, I will say cooldown is not needed. Why? Refer to this post :

 

 

I completely disagree with this and in support what KoD said.

 

There is no need for cooldown on any other items.

 

Some items will have time to time crashes. They might go down/up quick every now and then....And sometimes they might go up/down steadily. The items eventually comes back to stable price at some point.

 

Again, there is no need for cooldown on any other items.

 

You see many things, foods, and other stuff going up and down a lot in real life as well. Price of things have their moment but they stable down soon.

~

As always backpack.tf goes with what the current market trend of that item is. If such cooldowns is implemented we will also lag behind on prices on tons of items.