Pearly Gates Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Hey. As seen on every key suggestion, people complain about keys rising. It's something we can't stop, but to slow the keys down the Cooldown of keys should be longer. I was not sure where to post this, but website suggestions should fit. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/2620-key-cooldown-guidelines-read-before-making-key-suggestions/ you want this to be even longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 No, keys need to rise to be exactly 10 refined. Gaben plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminal Inhalation Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 So what if they complain? They're trolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted May 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2014 So what if they complain? They're trolls. Instead of accusing people of being troll or poor you should look at the amount of likes someone has gotten on their post and that person can clearly buy many keys and whatnot. I also think that Cooldown should be longer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted May 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2014 http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/2620-key-cooldown-guidelines-read-before-making-key-suggestions/ you want this to be even longer? Aye, many people want the cooldown longer even those who can afford keys. We can always test it out and see how the longer cooldown works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted May 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2014 Hey. I was not sure where to post this, but website suggestions should fit. What do you think? I think it is time to make it longer. If it doesn't work out, we can always go back. Most likely longer cooldown will definitely will keep the key a bit stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Most likely longer cooldown will definitely will keep the key a bit stable. lol, right because keys were totally not selling like hot cakes at 8 refined before the suggestion was made. It'd totally make sense for the sake of stability and reliability if backpack.tf just left the price at 7.66-7.77 refined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperNati0n Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 i dont think there should be a cooldown, if an item is legitimately rising we need to reflect that in a suggestion, why should we slow it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearly Gates Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/2620-key-cooldown-guidelines-read-before-making-key-suggestions/ you want this to be even longer? yep. See: Bp.tf price 8 ref. People will start selling @ 8.11-8.33 because duck the police -8 ref sells faster because everyone knows keys'll rise faster -8.11+ starts selling -Goes on and on -Bp.tf price rises -Repeat If the cooldown is longer, the key price will be atleast a bit more stable. So what if they complain? They're trolls. Am i a troll because i think key prices are terrible? Yeah, they spam and stuff but i get their point even tho noone takes them serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted May 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2014 lol, right because keys were totally not selling like hot cakes at 8 refined before the suggestion was made. It'd totally make sense for the sake of stability and reliability if backpack.tf just left the price at 7.66-7.77 refined. Read what Castiel said...I am not gonna sit here and argue nonsense. Who said that it should be left at that price? Please don't make up words and sentences from air. Thank you. I mentioned it might, if it doesn't oh well.... Just read Castiel's response. He sums it up pretty well. http://i.imgur.com/BHYS8hD.png?1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearly Gates Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 Read what Castiel said...I am not gonna sit here and argue nonsense. Who said that it should be left at that price? Please don't make up words and sentences from air. Thank you. I mentioned it might, if it doesn't oh well.... Just read Castiel's response. He sums it up pretty well. http://i.imgur.com/BHYS8hD.png?1 Castiel has got the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoDoRiN Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Lately backpack.tf has been really behind in key prices, but this one backpack.tf is really behind. If there's a longer cooldown, all it'll do is make it beyond unreliable. The market doesn't follow bp.tf, the market reflects on the demand. If it really does depend on backpack.tf, then it would've stabilized at 8 ref by now but by the looks of it no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 What Castiel wrote was a bunch of logical fallacies. 1) keys were already being sold for upto 7.33 refined when keys were listed as 7 refined on backpack.tf 2) cleverpun has already stated bots are not considered valid proof since they exist for convenience and are thus ruled out. 3) If only resellers are buying keys as stated, then that's wrong for two reasons. Firstly, it'd mean they were just swapping keys between each other and someone along the line of resellers wouldn't be pro fitting; its more than simply resellers buying. Secondly, if resellers were the only ones buying...and resellers shouldn't be used as proof, then what would we use as proof on suggestions? Resellers are just as vital of a factor as any other buyer/seller in the market and even more so since they more clearly show a medium that resellers have found that can sustain both buying and selling for very marginal profit which is often more than a scrap than backpack.tf above backpack.tf price ever since keys went over 3 refined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearly Gates Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 Lately backpack.tf has been really behind in key prices, but this one backpack.tf is really behind. If there's a longer cooldown, all it'll do is make it beyond unreliable. The market doesn't follow bp.tf, the market reflects on the demand. If it really does depend on backpack.tf, then it would've stabilized at 8 ref by now but by the looks of it no. read : yep. See: Bp.tf price 8 ref. People will start selling @ 8.11-8.33 because duck the police -8 ref sells faster because everyone knows keys'll rise faster -8.11+ starts selling -Goes on and on -Bp.tf price rises -Repeat If the cooldown is longer, the key price will be atleast a bit more stable. if the cooldown is longer, people know 8 ref is the maximum they can get for some time. Wont stop the keys, but will slow them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoDoRiN Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 read : if the cooldown is longer, people know 8 ref is the maximum they can get for some time. Wont stop the keys, but will slow them You assume that the market rises as soon as bp.tf changes. You are very wrong here. The market goes at its own pace, as proven here http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52b9352b4dd7b8f2548b456e - which I believe is the highest bump keys ever had. Cooldown did nothing, and bp.tf had little influence at the time. A cooldown won't really do much other than make backpack.tf's price grossly inaccurate and misinform new traders. If bp.tf were to have longer cooldowns, keys would have larger bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearly Gates Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 You assume that the market rises as soon as bp.tf changes. You are very wrong here. The market goes at its own pace, as proven here http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52b9352b4dd7b8f2548b456e - which I believe is the highest bump keys ever had. Cooldown did nothing, and bp.tf had little influence at the time. A cooldown won't really do much other than make backpack.tf's price grossly inaccurate and misinform new traders. If bp.tf were to have longer cooldowns, keys would have larger bumps. i dont think so key would have larger bumps, yeah, but they'd be slower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plex_ Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 By Wednesday 8 ref will be a quicksell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted May 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2014 You assume that the market rises as soon as bp.tf changes. You are very wrong here. The market goes at its own pace, as proven here http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52b9352b4dd7b8f2548b456e - which I believe is the highest bump keys ever had. Cooldown did nothing, and bp.tf had little influence at the time. A cooldown won't really do much other than make backpack.tf's price grossly inaccurate and misinform new traders. If bp.tf were to have longer cooldowns, keys would have larger bumps. Not sure why people are afraid of change here. Nevermind...People are afraid of changes nowadays no matter what the change is. We haven't tested it out yet, without testing it we can't know that for sure. Also, yeah it might get a larger bump or perhaps not. Testing it out wouldn't hurt a bit. We can test it out for a 2-3 months or so. If it doesn't help at all, we can always go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted May 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2014 What Castiel wrote was a bunch of logical fallacies. 1) keys were already being sold for upto 7.33 refined when keys were listed as 7 refined on backpack.tf 2) cleverpun has already stated bots are not considered valid proof since they exist for convenience and are thus ruled out. 3) If only resellers are buying keys as stated, then that's wrong for two reasons. Firstly, it'd mean they were just swapping keys between each other and someone along the line of resellers wouldn't be pro fitting; its more than simply resellers buying. Secondly, if resellers were the only ones buying...and resellers shouldn't be used as proof, then what would we use as proof on suggestions? Resellers are just as vital of a factor as any other buyer/seller in the market and even more so since they more clearly show a medium that resellers have found that can sustain both buying and selling for very marginal profit which is often more than a scrap than backpack.tf above backpack.tf price ever since keys went over 3 refined. Exactly. I don't know if I can explain to you clearly but I will give it my best shot. 7.00 was stuck for over 1 month here in bp.tf while on Outpost...Clearly many could sell for 7.11 - 7.33 but could they sell for 7.77 ref or 7.66 ref? Nope. Because people who buys keys will obviously say to those sellers I am already overpaying by .33 ref because this site says so. How the key market is working is like this... Whenever a suggestion is made now, people move up their prices either to high end of bp.tf price or .11 above bp.tf If a suggestion is not made, it doesn't go up much more than 1 scrap to a reclaimed at most but with the shorter and small cooldown, it is making the pace much easier to process. Because we can all say that whether or not we say this site is only a guide, overall most Tf2 players and users follow this site closely. Simple as that. If you don't see that, I don't know what else to tell you. 7.00 ref the most valuable and best example to give. I will happily concede defeat when longer cooldown doesn't work at all and prices takes a big long jump like above 0.55 -0.66. (If I made spelling/grammar mistake my apologies, really tired at the moment). Right now, I think longer cooldown might help even if its a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Just out of the blue i'm having insanely difficult problems buying at 8 ref... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted May 18, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2014 Just out of the blue i'm having insanely difficult problems buying at 8 ref... Read my last reason (Reply to Baloo) to know why. Also, I don't see any buying trade of yours, don't know how in the world you can say you are having "insanely difficult problems buying at 8.00 ref" Also, I see that you have 7.22 ref at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Just out of the blue i'm having insanely difficult problems buying at 8 ref... I buy them 8.11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanXpy Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 The answer is depends on backpack.tf's mission. Is it reflect the market or control the market ? i am pretty sure this argued hundereds of time before here . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 The answer is depends on backpack.tf's mission. Is it reflect the market or control the market? There is literally no way backpack.tf controls the economy because all suggestions are based on preexisting proof. If backpack.tf truly controlled the market of keys, then the price would not rise on the price list. The reason it does is in a reactionary attempt to reflect the price of all items as up-to-date as possible. In the case of keys, backpack.tf is perpetually below the range in which keys are traded in which is frustrating because firstly it leads to thread after thread of old ideas such as this one, and secondly causing a tug and pull with moderators on deciding whether a suggestion is ahead of the majority of the market or slightly behind which would lead be a buffer for insurance that backpack.tf is not leading the market for keys. Now, at Plaxorous, your idea doesn't solve anything because you're not addressing the core of the issue. Your desire is to have backpack.tf regulate the key market through price fixing (manipulation ), but that is firstly not the intended purpose of backpack.tf. Secondly, it doesn't solve the underlying problem which you have stated in passing which is the reseller mentality to create a market above backpack.tf regardless of whatever it may be. Creating a longer cooldown won't lead to anything different because with each bump continues the same state of mind. A weekly bump of half a scrap to a scrap every week or two would lead to the same price of a most likely reclaimed bump in a month. Scapegoating the largest centralized party involved in the key market doesn't solve the issue that is driving key prices to a greater extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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