Huge margins (profit margins)

[Sandwich]

This is my first post here so please excuse anything I do wrong since I know nothing about backpack.tf forums lol. But anyways, I've been working my way up from nothing to something and now I have around 3 keys and a couple of ref. Until now, I stuck to a strict trading script on scrap.tf buying and selling to bots. But that only works with lower tier items worth a couple of ref and the profit margins aren't that big. So I want to go further into the area of scrap.tf where I don't dare to go. You see, with more expensive items worth more than say a key, the backpack.tf bots start to be conservative in their buy order. That's why on some items even the burning team captain the bots seem to be lowballing. I think that's what create these huge margins on some items where the sellers are 2 keys and the bots are 1 key (mostly on unusuals).

But I want to go further into that territory of more expensive items, but this barrier prevents me from doing so without wasting my time grinding trade servers. Because scrap.tf usually prices their more expensive items in the middle of the margin. Now I don't know about everyone else but I think huge margins are good since you can be the lowest seller but still make some good ref profit. But everyone on trade servers seem to hate huge margins and want to buy for lower than bots. My mentality is, if I'm selling this stuff to YOU the human I expect you to pay at least a bit more than bots because why else would I waste my time on you if you're going to buy it for bot prices.  So that's why I'm a bit scared of buying items with huge margins and I don't know if anyone else is also scared.

[mcextraTTV]

You should not be scared if you are confident that you will end up profiting from an item. It is expected for humans to pay more than bots and for those who add me offering me buy orders are instantly added to my block list. 

[Nickman]

Buy orders don't matter too much on a lot of items. Be smart about what you're buying, how much you're paying, and what you're asking and you should be fine. Keep in mind the fact that most people are going to want to negotiate and work your listed price down. That's important to keep in mind when determining what you're going to pay for/sell an item for.

 

The only time that buy orders can really matter is when the buy orders and sell orders are super close together. For example, I unboxed a MG Bolted Birdcage a month or two ago. Multiple sellers were at 45 and buyers were just under 40. In a situation like that, you'll have next to no room to work with the price. If you already own an item with that situation going on it may be best to just dump it to bots and if you're being offered an item like that you're probably best just valuing the item at buy orders.

 

And once you get into high value items, the buy orders are mostly a joke.

 

Once you get some experience trading with higher valued items you'll start to get an idea of how much an item might bring over buy orders. Trust your gut and don't be afraid to make a mistake every once in a while. You may lose some profit but you'll gain more experience you can build off of.

[Erik]

Buy an item based on what it can realistically sell for, regardless of current buyers. That's a pretty easy way of avoiding getting lured into an overpriced market and worrying about (bot/human) buy orders and margins after you bought it. You usually want to determine the margin before you buy the hat and then decide whether the margin is worth it vs the risk / duration of sale / effort put into the hat etc. Have a plan before entering a market.

[FP jh34ghu43gu]

Idk about everyone else but I don't think I've ever been on a normal (read: non-unusual) trade server that people were actively trading on (FP normal trade had some trading on it when it existed but was like 2h every 3 days so maybe I just don't hardcore stay on trade servers like I used to). For low value items I'm not sure how viable trade servers are, almost no one goes there to purely buy an item, it's 99% to make profit which means buying with pure at buy orders or actual trading of items that both parties think they will be able to get more from than what they currently have (item offers). If you want people to pay more than bots you're going to need someone who actually wants the specific item you're selling for keeps, and then you have to be the cheapest most available one (varies person to person, if they are like me they value time more than 1/2 a cent and will gladly pay an extra scrap to a bot for instant trade, others might value the scrap and are ok waiting 12h).

If you look at it this way, this explains your dilemma a bit, and as the first reply said, no reason to be scared if you know you can make a profit.

 

Also maybe don't mention scripting on a site who's terms say you will not "Use any methods to gain advantage over users (including, but not limited to automation, scripts, user-scripts, auto-refreshers, external tools, bug-abusing, or other tampering)." Unless you meant a script as in set of rules.

 

Also what happened to the spoiler button on these forums, or the "more options" button? Tried [ spoiler ] but preview made it look like a quote.

[ajdislikesyournamingpolicy]

Buy low sell high

 

amen

[ProletaryBirb]

BUY HIGH SELL LOW 

 

BUY ORDERS ARE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!

[omnii]

My policy when trading usually isn't how much money I can make, it's more about how much money I can afford to lose. At the end of the day you have to be comfortable with your own valuations. 

[Vincentius]

Buy high, sell even higher

[Flamadin]

Buy rare stuff where the availability of the item is drying up. (This works well with factory new items in higher grades.)

[EmptyChests]

On 9/14/2021 at 11:19 AM, Nickman said:

Buy orders don't matter too much on a lot of items. Be smart about what you're buying, how much you're paying, and what you're asking and you should be fine. Keep in mind the fact that most people are going to want to negotiate and work your listed price down. That's important to keep in mind when determining what you're going to pay for/sell an item for.

 

The only time that buy orders can really matter is when the buy orders and sell orders are super close together. For example, I unboxed a MG Bolted Birdcage a month or two ago. Multiple sellers were at 45 and buyers were just under 40. In a situation like that, you'll have next to no room to work with the price. If you already own an item with that situation going on it may be best to just dump it to bots and if you're being offered an item like that you're probably best just valuing the item at buy orders.

 

And once you get into high value items, the buy orders are mostly a joke.

 

Once you get some experience trading with higher valued items you'll start to get an idea of how much an item might bring over buy orders. Trust your gut and don't be afraid to make a mistake every once in a while. You may lose some profit but you'll gain more experience you can build off of.

 

On 9/14/2021 at 11:22 AM, Erik said:

Buy an item based on what it can realistically sell for, regardless of current buyers. That's a pretty easy way of avoiding getting lured into an overpriced market and worrying about (bot/human) buy orders and margins after you bought it. You usually want to determine the margin before you buy the hat and then decide whether the margin is worth it vs the risk / duration of sale / effort put into the hat etc. Have a plan before entering a market.

Extremely useful advice, thank you

If you don't mind me asking, what should I do if a bp price is outdated and buy orders are low on a hat I know could sell way more?

[Nickman]

1 hour ago, EmptyChests said:

 

Extremely useful advice, thank you

If you don't mind me asking, what should I do if a bp price is outdated and buy orders are low on a hat I know could sell way more?

 

How do you "know" you can sell it for way more? Honestly, you need to keep in mind that these kinds of purchases always carry an inherent risk, you just need to be OK with taking that risk. If you really believe you can buy an item like that for cheaper than you think it's worth, it might be worth a shot.

 

Just do your research before buying and have a good idea of where you're going to start with your price, what you realistically think you can get, and what the minimum you would take for it is and evaluate the risk vs reward for going through with the purchase. Make sure you understand why the price is outdated and the buy orders are "low" (are there no sellers? is the hat consistently selling for around the listed price but no one bothers refreshing the price?). Assuming you're working with unusuals, compare what you're considering buying with other similar unusuals. How would your price compare to the price of the same hat with higher/lower tier effects? How would your price compare to other hats on the market? How would your price compare with other hats for the same class with the same effect? A lot of this is subjective but it can help you figure out if there really is room for profit or if you're hyping yourself up too much on an item. 

 

Also consider how long it will take you to sell the item in question. Chances are that in this situation it will take some time to sell, are you going to make more than you would have if you had done some quick flips in the same time period? If you're not dealing with very high tier, expensive hats you don't want to be sitting on an item for months without being able to sell. Also be prepared to hear about low buy orders from potential buyers.

 

If you've considered all of that and still think you have a good shot at profiting, trust your gut. Just remember that you're going to make bad purchases along the way and you're going to lose on some purchases. Just try to be smart about what you're buying and how you're selling.

[EmptyChests]

2 hours ago, Nickman said:

 

How do you "know" you can sell it for way more? Honestly, you need to keep in mind that these kinds of purchases always carry an inherent risk, you just need to be OK with taking that risk. If you really believe you can buy an item like that for cheaper than you think it's worth, it might be worth a shot.

 

Just do your research before buying and have a good idea of where you're going to start with your price, what you realistically think you can get, and what the minimum you would take for it is and evaluate the risk vs reward for going through with the purchase. Make sure you understand why the price is outdated and the buy orders are "low" (are there no sellers? is the hat consistently selling for around the listed price but no one bothers refreshing the price?). Assuming you're working with unusuals, compare what you're considering buying with other similar unusuals. How would your price compare to the price of the same hat with higher/lower tier effects? How would your price compare to other hats on the market? How would your price compare with other hats for the same class with the same effect? A lot of this is subjective but it can help you figure out if there really is room for profit or if you're hyping yourself up too much on an item. 

 

Also consider how long it will take you to sell the item in question. Chances are that in this situation it will take some time to sell, are you going to make more than you would have if you had done some quick flips in the same time period? If you're not dealing with very high tier, expensive hats you don't want to be sitting on an item for months without being able to sell. Also be prepared to hear about low buy orders from potential buyers.

 

If you've considered all of that and still think you have a good shot at profiting, trust your gut. Just remember that you're going to make bad purchases along the way and you're going to lose on some purchases. Just try to be smart about what you're buying and how you're selling.

Holy shit man, I did not expect that level of response

I only asked because I bought a Searing Plasma Batters helm for 20 pure, and there's a seller for vivid at 25, and i'm pretty sure both Searing and Vivid are valued same. 

 

Thank you bro, this shit goes a looooong way in helping 

[Nickman]

1 hour ago, EmptyChests said:

Holy shit man, I did not expect that level of response

I only asked because I bought a Searing Plasma Batters helm for 20 pure, and there's a seller for vivid at 25, and i'm pretty sure both Searing and Vivid are valued same. 

 

Thank you bro, this shit goes a looooong way in helping 

 

My pleasure. I'm by no means an expert trader but I've been around the block a few times.

Vivid is generally considered to be a better effect than Searing because it's more visible. They generally go for around the same ball park though. Take a look at the listings/buy orders for the Vivid and Searing patriots peaks.

Looks like the vivid at 25 might have sold, in which case I'd list searing at 30 and look to get 25+.

[EmptyChests]

1 hour ago, Nickman said:

 

My pleasure. I'm by no means an expert trader but I've been around the block a few times.

Vivid is generally considered to be a better effect than Searing because it's more visible. They generally go for around the same ball park though. Take a look at the listings/buy orders for the Vivid and Searing patriots peaks.

Looks like the vivid at 25 might have sold, in which case I'd list searing at 30 and look to get 25+.

I seriously appreciate it man, good stuff to you

 

Cheers man, we need more people like you in the world