What is the +Trust System for and should it be removed? (Not talking about -Trust)

[Fire ̷̨●̷̨°]

Through my talks with Brad, and reading comments on these forums and your Steam Group page, I thought I should make this thread. For those unaware the +Trust System seems/is completely pointless, and if anything is harmful in it's current state to the trading community.

 

Firstly let me explain why it's pointless in it's current state.

 

1. "If you vouch for an account and it is found to be a scammer, you will receive penalty points. Only vouch for people you really trust."

 

This statement, posted on the I Agree page when you go to +/- Trust someone, is completely false. Currently there is no penalty for vouching for someone who might later be marked as a scammer. Not having any repercussions for leaving +Trust on someone profile completely nullifies the entire system.

 

2. Quality control.

 

Currently there is 0 quality control on any +Trust comment left on someones profile. There are also no rules as to the reasons you should be giving a person +Trust. This system along with point #1 makes +Trust as useless as +Rep on a Steam Profile (but more harmful).

 

 

 

Now I will list points on why the current +Trust system is in fact doing harm to the trading community in it's current state.

 

1. "If you have recently sold items for real world money, you should wait at least 2 months to ensure there is no chargeback from the buyer." - "I have done multiple transactions involving real world money with Randolph. Somewhere betweek 3k and 5k recently. A+"

 

These statements, posted on the I Agree page when you go to +/- Trust someone, implies that +Trust can be used as a effective method for real world money trading. This is not true, the current system for +Trust is not at all a effective method for real world trading. Talking to Brad, and being aware of how the current system works (from my explanation above), there is no moderation of +Trust. As well, Brad does not intend to assign/recruit people to moderate this system.

 

This is harmful. Being a trusted and widely used community website you should know that promoting a unfinished/broken system for real world trading is irresponsible. Please if anything remove this message and replace it with another explaining +Trust is not meant for real world transactions.

 

2. Players taking advice from someone based on their +Trust number.

 

As I've already explained the system is currently nothing more that a popularity meter. A system like this should not have the title Trust, implying a person has been proven to be honest, which it does not do. Such a label leaves avenues open for those who intend to harm other traders by using it as currency for profit. Reputation in a anonymous market place like this one is a commodity, having a substandard version on a prominent and widely used site is harmful.

 

 

 

Please Brad if you read this I request that you temporarily disable the +Trust system until you have the time to fully complete it to community standards. If this is not a option I request you rename it from Trust to something else that doesn't imply a higher scores shows how honest you are. If even that is not something you want to do then at the very least provide labels everywhere +Trust is shown to explain exactly what this score means.

 

Thank you.

[polar]

http://backpack.tf/trust/76561198020257384 - had 18 +trusts until he was marked on sr and then 10 -trusts by people who probably have never dealt with him before after the fact. Until he was marked on sr, he had one of the highest trust scores of any person I have seen (18-0). 

 

I agree, the system is pointless as it currently stands. The sheer number of useless reps I have seen and even more useless reports for -reps far outweighs the truly positive reps that I have seen.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

http://backpack.tf/trust/76561198020257384 - had 18 +trusts until he was marked on sr and then 10 -trusts by people who probably have never dealt with him before after the fact. Until he was marked on sr, he had one of the highest trust scores of any person I have seen (18-0).

 

I agree, the system is pointless as it currently stands. The sheer number of useless reps I have seen and even more useless reports for -reps far outweighs the truly positive reps that I have seen.

Not to mention no one considers it valid rep--no one who knows anything about cash trading anyway.

[Fire ̷̨●̷̨°]

Not to mention no one considers it valid rep.

 

No one who is a avid trader considers it valid. However, think of newer players who see the site on almost every trade server they go on with !bp (including all 16 of my own). Those people are more likely to consider it valid and that's where it can be potentially harmful.

[Julia Gillard the Honest]

http://backpack.tf/trust/76561198020257384 - had 18 +trusts until he was marked on sr and then 10 -trusts by people who probably have never dealt with him before after the fact. Until he was marked on sr, he had one of the highest trust scores of any person I have seen (18-0).

 

I watched him closely and I'm sure that I saw him go up to twenty. Also, I definitely had to deal with him a few times before his mark.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I watched him closely and I'm sure that I saw him go up to twenty. Also, I definitely had to deal with him a few times before his mark.

People need to stop +Repping people because they ask them too....its fucking bullshit. 

[Teeird]

I think the trust system is great.

[Fire ̷̨●̷̨°]

I think the trust system is great.

 

Would you care to explain your reasons why you think it's great in it's current state?

[Jewlander]

Just reading over this I agree 100% that this system needs to be taken down, any potential benefit to the trading community it had has been completely negated by it's easy exploitation and misuse. While seasoned traders know not to take it seriously, newer and more inexperienced traders are completely vulnerable to being preyed upon by scammers and sharkers using this rep system to their benefit. If Bradd wants to make this rep system a serious system it needs to have serious checks and balances as well as moderators. Overall it causes much more harm than good and should be discontinued until it has been developed further.

Those're my two cents.

[Julia Gillard the Honest]

Perhaps some kind of prerequisite needs to be added? Perhaps something such as needing to have actually made a trust-based trade with the person? Raxshi's story's a good example of what should be prevented. His Outpost trades were absolutely loaded with fake offers from his friends and I can tell you from experience that he'd lie about your items' values in a shark attempt, yet he still had heaps of those "+REP GOOD GUY" comments.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Perhaps some kind of prerequisite needs to be added? Perhaps something such as needing to have actually made a trust-based trade with the person? Raxshi's story's a good example of what should be prevented. His Outpost trades were absolutely loaded with fake offers from his friends and I can tell you from experience that he'd lie about your items' values in a shark attempt, yet he still had heaps of those "+REP GOOD GUY" comments.

A scammer/shark/fence/extremely phishy guy has 20+ rep, i have 6; trust system is flawed :3 

 

But it seriously needs a lot of moderation--and it really needs to be for cash trades only. I get that its supposed to be a different system and all, but anyone who doesn't know about cash trades will be more willing to trust some random guy--even if they just do a normal trade--meaning they'll +trust someone that they think is trustworthy--even though these are the same people that would sell to a scammer in an instant because they don't know better. 

[Teeird]

 

vulnerable to being preyed upon by scammers and sharkers

Considering the reputation system is built on a pricing website, that isn't a problem.

 

 

I don't see the issue. Standard rep threads are abused and exploited too.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I don't see the issue. Standard rep threads are abused and exploited too.

not to the same extent. 

 

I'm willing to bet most of Raxshi's +trust didn't involve paypal. Plus all other rep-threads are moderated to some extent. 

[Cryomancer7]

A scammer/shark/fence/extremely phishy guy has 20+ rep, i have 6; trust system is flawed :3 

 

But it seriously needs a lot of moderation--and it really needs to be for cash trades only. I get that its supposed to be a different system and all, but anyone who doesn't know about cash trades will be more willing to trust some random guy--even if they just do a normal trade--meaning they'll +trust someone that they think is trustworthy--even though these are the same people that would sell to a scammer in an instant because they don't know better. 

Maybe this can be for CD Keys trades too. Agree on all the other things.

[Teeird]

not to the same extent. 

 

I'm willing to bet most of Raxshi's +trust didn't involve paypal. Plus all other rep-threads are moderated to some extent. 

They still have holes in the system people can exploit. Shutting down is an unproductive solution.

 

I really doubt TF2-T/MCT rep threads are given a lot of moderation. People rep on rep threads for normal trades even if it's not allowed.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

They still have holes in the system people can exploit. Shutting down is an unproductive solution.

 

I really doubt TF2-T/MCT rep threads are given a lot of moderation. People rep on rep threads for normal trades even if it's not allowed.

Agreed, but thats why rep doesn't really mean all that much by itself. Rep means something when it comes from another reputable person. But, the difference between bptf and sop/tf2t/mct is how inexperienced traders view them. Bp.tf seems like a more "valid" site. Bp.tf is more like OP/Bazaar/SR, whereas tf2t/mct/skial are just server sites--if you know what i mean. 

[jorisk322]

I agree

[whopz]

Absolute joke of a system. When I complained about it before, it was some kid giving me fake negative rep. I mean, someone I have never heard before or dealt with before. I do the same back to him and I'm banned from backpack.tf? What is this horseshit?

[jorisk322]

Absolute joke of a system. When I complained about it before, it was some kid giving me fake negative rep. I mean, someone I have never heard before or dealt with before. I do the same back to him and I'm banned from backpack.tf? What is this horseshit?

The ban made a lot of sense really. You should have just reported his rep to a mod or something. You putting more fake rep into the system is definitely NOT the way to improve it.

[whopz]

You're correct, but I can't seem to report it to anybody no matter what I do. Should I contact an admin directly? He posted all that because I got a hat he wanted, and he was really angry. Mind you I don't think there's any room for improvement really. It's really no better than profile reputation, except that you can't delete troll comments.

[Julia Gillard the Honest]

You're correct, but I can't seem to report it to anybody no matter what I do. Should I contact an admin directly? He posted all that because I got a hat he wanted, and he was really angry. Mind you I don't think there's any room for improvement really. It's really no better than profile reputation, except that you can't delete troll comments.

 

Buddhapest's comment? He might've been referring to that phantom. http://backpack.tf/item/2350235671 That's not a troll comment. http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6603-user-trust-scores/?p=75107

[Brad Pitt]

If you've ever been on eBay, you should understand the basics of a "feedback" system. Negative feedback has much more impact that positives and this is why both scores are clearly visible.

 

If you're going to buy an $3000 item on eBay, and you see the person has 99% positive feedback, if you're smart you will verify what that negative feedback is all about before you complete the purchase. This is the same idea, in its simplest form. I think we can all agree that positive trust does not mean a whole lot if you look only at the number itself. But it can mean a lot if the people trusting you are known, trustworthy people.

 

It's up to the buyer to do his research and as a smart trader, if you see a single negative trust score out of 100, you will take a look and that's the idea. If you're not a smart trader you probably would get scammed wether or not this system or SteamRep existed.

[♠Derpeh♤]

If you've ever been on eBay, you should understand the basics of a "feedback" system. Negative feedback has much more impact that positives and this is why both scores are clearly visible

I agree with all your points however ebays system only allow the leaving of feedback if there was a sale which occured between the seller/buyer making the feedback left behind to be alot more reliable. Currently bp has no moderation and anyone can leave a comment weather you have personally dealt with the trader or not leading to obvious abuses.

 

As pointed out my many people already some people recieve negative comments out of spite. Being a site which prices from volunteers our suggestors are a prime target of this hate.