🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Hi! Before i begin, *heyah!* What is a quicksell? Someone advertising their sale as a quicksell doesn't mean that it is one, sometimes they try to "quicksell" their hats for months without success. Time is only one factor used to determine a quicksell. If a hat sells within 1-2 days for its b/o in pure, one should be suspicious. However, it could just be a lucky sale as well. More important is how a sale relates to other sales. If a hat sells for less or around quickbuyer prices in pure or unusuals or for less than common trade points, that is likely a quicksell. Exceptions when buy orders don't necessarily counter lower sales Numbers Matter - if there is only 1 lonely buy order and 3 sales lower than that it probably doesn't counter. Also generic buy orders (any effect) are usually buying more than 1 copy of a hat. Common Trading Point - if there is a huge number of sales at or around buyer prices then it might be included in the price range. Sellers being close to buy orders is also an indication for that. Market Shifts - timing of buy orders and sales matter: If a sale took place before a buy order was created the seller obviously couldn't just "sell it to the buy order instead". Counter Buy Orders - Buy orders created after a suggestion was made with the sole purpose of countering the suggestion will be structually ignored. aswell as: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5b15768e44325a5c6d075852#comment-5b435572cf6c7558a4778c3c a snippet of the quicksell rules. Okay, lets begin! Just to be clear, obviously there are times when quicksales are fine to be accepted. When a hats price is suggested to drop and its low end is close to quickbuyers or at quickbuyers, it is accepted as per the Quote Common Trading Point rule. Many times those low ends will end up too low, however market shifts are usually reported in a timely manner and a new suggestion is made soon after and the hats price at the end of the day will rise back up. But it does not work so fast and simply for hats lower in the existence, rarer. Im pretty sure everything written in the quicksell rules is understood by basically anyone who has been in this community/trading scene for a while, but there has always been one part of the rules that has remained clouded, the infamous Quote However, it could just be a lucky sale as well. Now its not necessarily this part of the rules that causes mistakes, rather a factor that could fall into this part of the rules. Its called "Reporting this sale as is", aswell as "Reporting the suggested price as better than current". While those 2 independently are completely valid fundaments to accept suggestions on, when infused with the quicksell rules, often than not, they are invalid. Now, Price Moderators themselves have heavily disagreed with me on the just mentioned point and one of them encouraged me to discuss this further on a more public manner, either on bp.tf discord server or in the form of a forum post. I believe forum posts to be better for matters like these, less... off-topic flooding. That was a while ago, what made me do this finally was the currently present mess you see here: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5edc70ca7a465f05a169c345 Now to continue, why do i believe them to be invalid? Cause when we come back to the infamous part of the quicksell rules... What does "it could just be a lucky sale as well" really mean? Imo it opens doors to uncertainty and allows the factor, as i called it, that i spoke about above to be accepted even when the sale presented in the suggestion is a quicksell. So far, correct me if im mistaken, but literally the only times the quicksell dispution is awakened in suggestions comments is when a suggester is using a single sale to drop a hat, that in most cases is indeed a quicksell, as it sold quick. Now where does the confusion come in? To be completely honest, im not really sure whatsoever. As a very experienced quickbuyer, one of the most experienced out there, i dare say, a quicksell is as clear as the mid-day sunny sky to me and seems to be to almost all quickbuyers. There have even been attempts to paint us in a bad picture. Whenever we call suggesters, that try to drop a hat based on a quicksell out, and that suggestion is made on a hat we own, once that particular suggester runs out of arguments, sometimes they have told us "Look, youre just mad that your hat is getting dropped", yet all we really do is defend the legitimacy of this site, that updates hat based on upmost correct information. How can i say so certainly that thats the reason of the outrage, and that its actually not the fact that those suggesters are trying to drop our hats? Well i can't speak for everyone, but what i can say is ive made very clear that i don't care about dropped backpack value. Ive proven that by always making sure that once i resell my hat, i try to update the price to what it really is supposed to be at, not the price that was based off a quicksale. So my point is, if the value drop is quite literally always, in those cases, temporary, why would i be mad at people dropping the value of my hat? To continue, as i mentioned above, the few "factors", based on which some quicksells are accepted by Price Moderators to update a hat, i myself have fell victim to a numerous of these accepted suggestions. While i obviously don't remember to provide much more than a few examples, here is a suggestion which was accepted based on the point of "Reporting the suggested price as better than current": https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5c2e107844325a1e950780c3 - The suggestion was accepted off a quicksale, a "580" key hat, which even i believed and im pretty sure admitted to be a bit too high of a price, sold for 300 pure in less than a day. Guys, seriously, we are talking about an unusual worth hundreds and hundreds of keys, that sold for a price way lower than its at that time bp.tf price in less than a day. No matter what arguments based on it was accepted as 300 flat, it never shouldve been allowed to, it was blatantly incorrect. Obviously 580 was high, but in no way was 300 flat, using a quicksale, any better. Just as the suggestion was accepted based on the point "Reporting the suggested price as better than current", it couldve also been declined based on the opposite, something in the lines of "Calling the suggested price as no better than current, as it is based off a quicksale". Now obviously if the sale didn't sell as fast as it did, there wouldve been no outcry whatsoever. An issue only comes in, when a single quicksale is used to update the price of a hat (as i said, don't quote me on that, perhaps it is not the only time quicksales are misjudged and accepted as a new price incorrectly), stop reading too much into a simple quicksale and complicating its simplicity for everyone. There are also currently 2 suggestions open from 2 different experienced suggesters (one of which is so experienced, i was actually in awe, when he said he didn't see the sale being an obvious quicksale), on 2 of my hats that i made clear quickpurchases on (single usable sale on both suggestions, that is my purchase, which both sold i think in under and hour, not even a day), but they fail to see that, what is so obvious to me, and have disagreed with closing the suggestions. Now to end this example, i later on did update it back to its more accurate price after i sold it: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5d8eb333678072081b2163a2 HOWEVER, some people may bring out a point of this sale being luck, as i did take a lenghty time to sell it (even tho the huge drop to the quicksell price i paid obviously became a complication to resell), so ill just in case show 1 or 2 more examples. Example numero 2: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5deea17e363f117eab4aa46d - The hat was priced off a quicksale. There is no screenshot, but Mods know anyway. What Offline was saying is true, there was a in'n'out buyorder, a year old, at 36. Yet the hat was priced at 35. One of the Mods arguments was that the buyer was fine with the hat being priced, but it doesn't matter what the buyers think, we have rules we follow and it clearly states Quote If a hat sells for less or around quickbuyer prices in pure or unusuals Quote that is likely a quicksell. But do keep in mind, that the mentioned above argument the Mods brought up is one of the weakest ones, it by no means was the only point they had for accepting the suggestion. Its just, i can't be bothered to quote out the other arguments as there is no arguments against a situation that perfectly meets a concrete quicksell rule. There is no "Reporting this sale as is", 35 was a quicksell, if there was a buyorder at 36. There are more examples, but i just can't recall them. Yet again feel free to post your examples (and thoughts too ofc) below! TDLR; What do i want and believe vast majority wants being done about the whole situation? I want the quicksell rules to be updated, to be more clear so that these spam suggestions of clueless (in regards to quicksales) suggestors, suggestors who have barely dealt with quickbuy trading at all, stop (I myself have refrained from posting probably around tens of suggestions, cause before doing so i realised that the only usable sale was a quicksale. Can't help but to wonder how many of those wouldve been accepted, had i posted them tho ) and that Mods stopped accepting very controversial quicksales as valid sales for updating a hat. Imo the Quote However, it could just be a lucky sale as well. part of the quicksell rules is too vague and opens doors to cloudiness and confusion in regards to the rules. You simply can not disprove a quicksale just by calling it a lucky sale (and whether its a lucky sale or not, we will never know, we physically can't) and imo the factors, as i called them, "Reporting this sale as is", aswell as "Reporting the suggested price as better than current" are just a different way of calling a quicksale, a lucky sale. If a hat has a single quicksale (the sale happened within less than a day, sometimes even far less than a day (this ofc does not mean that less than a week sales can not be quicksales aswell, it also all depends on the suggested hat) of being listed up), that sale can not be used to update the price of/price the hat. And at the end of the day, all the complications of the rules aside, one mustn't forget the definition of the word "quicksale" outside the context of these ever so mindcracking bp.tf, tf2 hat suggestions; A quicksale is called a quicksale, cause the sale happened quickly after being advertised. 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