A clarification on rules

[piman]

As you may know, if a bot deletes and relists an item within 30 minutes of the last bump to effectively surpass the limit, it can get banned.

However, if that relisting involves a price change, is ti allowed?

 

For example, if a bot has a listing to buy at 10 ref, but replaced it with one to buy at 9 within 30 minutes, is it bannable? 

[LaughingLollipop]

Probably not, but it should be

 

The amount of bending over backwards to ensure that big boi botters can shill their .11 ref margins is absurd and counterproductive for anyone who isn't running a bot

 

 

[FP jh34ghu43gu]

So I think I remember reading somewhere not to bypass the bump listing limits (the topic of the post) but it's not listed in the rules?

There's this note:

Note: These rules and guidelines are not here as a complete list of warnable or bannable offenses. They are here to clear up any confusion about the rules that may not be obvious.

But this seems like something not obvious that should be included. Anyone know where the rule is listed?

17 minutes ago, LaughingLollipop said:

The amount of bending over backwards to ensure

 

?? Backpack isn't bending rules for bots, if you want to manually remove your listing and put it back up for a scrap less to bump before the 30 min. cooldown you can as long as you accept the lower price. It's just silly to not automate that.

As for the .11 ref margins, if you're dealing with items that the only possible profit is a scrap then not using automation is a waste of time. A scrap is worth less than a penny it's just plain out not worth trying to trade for profits in that area UNLESS you can push 10's or 100's of volume a day, which you just aren't going to do that as a human. (and if you are doing that, you are getting maybe $1 for 8+ hours of work, beermoney apps are a much better use of time in that case).

28 minutes ago, LaughingLollipop said:

counterproductive for anyone who isn't running a bot

My point in the last paragraph is it's not productive to NOT run a bot on those items.

[LaughingLollipop]

4 minutes ago, FP jh34ghu43gu said:

So I think I remember reading somewhere not to bypass the bump listing limits (the topic of the post) but it's not listed in the rules?

There's this note:

Note: These rules and guidelines are not here as a complete list of warnable or bannable offenses. They are here to clear up any confusion about the rules that may not be obvious.

But this seems like something not obvious that should be included. Anyone know where the rule is listed?

 

?? Backpack isn't bending rules for bots, if you want to manually remove your listing and put it back up for a scrap less to bump before the 30 min. cooldown you can as long as you accept the lower price. It's just silly to not automate that.

As for the .11 ref margins, if you're dealing with items that the only possible profit is a scrap then not using automation is a waste of time. A scrap is worth less than a penny it's just plain out not worth trying to trade for profits in that area UNLESS you can push 10's or 100's of volume a day, which you just aren't going to do that as a human. (and if you are doing that, you are getting maybe $1 for 8+ hours of work, beermoney apps are a much better use of time in that case).

My point in the last paragraph is it's not productive to NOT run a bot on those items.

 

If as a human you cannot reasonably expect to use this site to sell an item, then the site is effectively useless

 

A tiny percentage of users have (or pay exorbitant fees for...) a bot

 

That tiny percentage is the same tiny percentage persistently purchasing premium to autobump their shit, so they're the majority of value

 

The site primarily exists at this point to serve bots and unusual traders.

 

I don't view that as a positive.

[FP jh34ghu43gu]

 

2 minutes ago, LaughingLollipop said:

The site primarily exists at this point to serve bots and unusual traders.

The site primarily exists to record pricing info and collect item stats(.tf). Classifieds just happen to go well with that (and helps pays the bills as an incentive).

 

5 minutes ago, LaughingLollipop said:

If as a human you cannot reasonably expect to use this site to sell an item, then the site is effectively useless

Unusual's and other high value items are able to be sold here through sell orders, if you are selling a low value item then there will be bots lined up around the corner to buy it but if you want 1/2 a cent more you should rethink how much you value your time.

 

9 minutes ago, LaughingLollipop said:

The site primarily exists at this point to serve bots and unusual traders.

 

I don't view that as a positive.

This is just natural change, there's 7.5+ million ref today compared to 3 million 5 years ago (archive link because graph doesn't go back far enough) with no sink for it to go. It continues to be devalued and as it becomes less and less profitable in real world cash to trade ref-based items there's going to be a demand for bots. The glory days of ref trading for profit are over. This leaves bots and unusuals (and other high values) so you can see that as a negative but I see it as old man yells at cloud.

 

 

I also do not see how any of that relates to the original statement of backpack bending rules for bots.

[Jarool]

No. Updating your price within 30 mins of last listing an item doesn't get you banned. Similarly, relisting within 30 mins to change stock info doesn't get you banned either. For example, if someone's buying 10 keys max, and they buy like 6, they can relist to update their notes, and state they're only buying 4.

 

Sorry this turned into another thread about bots ruining the site above me lol

[Zeus_Junior]

Jarool is right.

It is in the ‘rules’ here:

https://forums.backpack.tf/topic/53663-guide-for-reporting-on-the-main-site/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-601157

You are allowed to change your price

[Medic Bot]

On 4/24/2020 at 12:52 AM, FP jh34ghu43gu said:

 there's 7.5+ million ref today compared to 3 million 5 years ago (archive link because graph doesn't go back far enough)

Aren't item occurrences in backpacks linked to the amount of backpacks checked? The more people use backpack.tf the more backpacks get checked, so isn't it normal that such a common item as Refineds seem to increase over time due to more and more users having their backpacks checked by backpack.tf as they use the website for the first time?

Look, you have 2 sets of data: The first is the time, not hard to obtain, just watch a calendar, the other one is the number of refined metals calculated by backpack.tf.

You can reasonably think that hey are correlated: "The time passes, the number of refineds in backpacks increase", there clearly seems to be a correlation there, indeed.

 

But the correlation doesn't necessarily need to be: [Time] -> [More refineds in backpacks]

there are other options like: [Time] -> [Something] -> [More refineds in backpacks]

 

That [Something] can be, for example more people that over time used atleast once backpack.tf, having their backpacks checked, more people getting into trading and therefore switching their inventory from private to public and so on.

I don't see why there should be a direct correlation between [Time] and [More refineds in backpacks],  there could very well be [Something] in the middle and the actual average number of refined metals in the game may have never changed by much.

It should also be taken into consideration accounts that are inactive from years, accounts trade-banned, accounts that used all their refs for crafting but never updated their backpack on the website ever since.

In my personal opinion, the whole refined metal argument is only psychological, people THINK that the market have been flooded with refs so they THINK they are worth less, this mindset is unhealthy to the economy and should not be encouraged unless we get empirical data directly from Valve as the whole argument so far its just speculation and artificially creates a problem on the assumption that the problem itself already exists wich may not be the case.

[FP jh34ghu43gu]

4 hours ago, Medic Bot said:

--snip--

1) Necro?

2) Not on topic to post anymore? But regardless ->

3) Avg ~75k players including bots every week means an average of 600,000 new weapons every week regardless of if they are tracked or not. ~33,333 new ref every week for ~1.733 million new ref every year purely from item drops (not mvm drops or duel win rewards or gift bags) there's def. a massive increase in ref regardless of outside tracking variables. There's no major incentive to craft it when hats can be bought for half the price crafting costs so it continues to inflate.

Another point is that key value in ref is* was inflating. Why would it inflate if ref is static or decreasing? Ref is becoming increasingly worthless because there is increasingly more of it with no real way to reliably transfer it into cash.

I won't totally discredit your argument, yes more backpacks get recorded over time and yes some people get trade banned with ref inside but the most ref anyone could have is 3,000 which is replaced 11x every week. And most don't have only ref they usually have other items or keys. But the numbers don't lie and there are thousands of bots that are farming ref specifically to pump into the economy so their owners can get free** money.

 

*Seems like keys have become static if not decreasing in quantity, probably due to cases all taking special keys and I think I heard that they aren't cheaper to buy outside the US anymore.

**Provided the electricity cost doesn't outweigh their gross income from the ref. Probably only need to run them for 1 day every week, couldn't be too much or else they wouldn't do it.