Dislike button/disliking in bp.tf suggestions comments

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

Okay, finally opening a proper discussion of the matter, to let it properly be discussed, let it... roll, why not. So far its always been small discussions by me from time to time.

 

As some of you may know, here on the bp.tf forums, there actually used to be a dislike button, however since it was a spawn to unwanted negativity, Teeny decided to remove it. Now the connection here to the bp.tf suggestions comments is that ive spoken to Teeny about this before, but she had a strong reason to decline the suggestion. From a negativity perspective, like on the forums, you see dislikes more often, than likes in suggestions comments. But obviosuly forums and bp.tf suggestions comments are different. Now more to the technical side of the issue at hand. As time has passed, i, and im rather certain quite a few of you guys too, can't help to feel like the dislike button has lost its accuracy and purpose; to filter out comments that don't contribute to the proof in the suggestion. Nowadays its more of disliking for the sake of it. For some people, they dislike any comments that already has even a singular dislike (for instance torb :3). Quite a number of people, who aren't that knowledgeable when it comes to suggesting, dislike when they don't understand or misunderstand a comment and the domino effect of dislikes just follows smoothly. The list goes on, there are many reasons to disliking, obviously dislike is still used for its intended purpose aswell, but not so much anymore and not as much as its non-intended purpose. I feel like comments filtering should go on like it actually already has; mods warning explicit comments/stopping some of dat dumb ass drama (me guilty here too :c). Don't bother me with no drama.

Tdlr; overall the idea would be that accurate comments/comments with good additional proof would get likes and those that don't provide any extra proof would, well, not get likes, but also not dislikes. Just ignored. Very simple and straightforward, for one idea. Then flat out rude, troll, etc, comments could get filtered out then, by mods warning them, as always.

 

Now for sum examples:

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e081070d0b4ea6a21065832

I provided left out sales AND suggested the Tyrolean.

 

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e19bd7cae2a236cce6771d8

Both sale 8 and 16 were listed as "untrace" in his suggestion, i provided proof of the sales, as i was involved in them.

 

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e9d6426a263c8384247c14a

Listed an additional sale that was left out of the suggestion.

 

And so forth. There have been many examples over time, but can't recall older stuff anymore. If you have some examples yourself, you can post em, why not?

 

With all said and done, gimme your thoughts on this matter and if you agree something needs to be changed or dislike button be removed entirely from bp.tf suggestions comments.

 

Edit: Mindacos commented on one of my old open suggestions and i noticed another good example:

Listed a new sale that happened.

 

Edit: The simplest solution, keeping in mind the workload of the Dev and the fact that the workload is so big, the load is abandoned completely, could also be what Youtube does: 

[Slam]

Hide the "score" and you're good. Then, people won't tack on dislikes just because "I wanna dislike it too because others disliked it!", since they can't see the score in the first place. However, keep the like/dislike system's function of hiding posts that receive a large number of dislikes, which would keep the ability to get totally bogus / troll / meme comments hidden.

 

Then, make it so that only price mods can see the score. That way they can quickly tell at a glance what comments are sound/good and what comments are bogus/memes. Obviously even with the score hidden, it's not always going to be accurate to how the suggestion community feels about comments, but it's going to be more accurate than the system that exists now.

 

There's no real reason to show the score in the first place, since backpack.tf doesn't track your overall suggestion comment score nor does having a ton of likes on a comment do anything but just show "hey this guy's got it right". The entire point of the comments sections of suggestions is for discussion of the suggestion, whether that be to add additional proof to support the suggestion, show proof to counter it, suggest a different price range and explain why, etc. It's not a reddit thread where you're trying to get "updoots" and watch your "score" go up.

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

1 hour ago, mike ❤️ said:

However, keep the like/dislike system's function of hiding posts that receive a large number of dislikes, which would keep the ability to get totally bogus / troll / meme comments hidden.

Oh damn, that could work really well, except it wouldn't eliminate stuff like personal grudge dislikes and such, but thats a good start at the very least, which you already mentioned aswell.

1 hour ago, mike ❤️ said:

but it's going to be more accurate than the system that exists now

 

[Zeus904]

1 hour ago, mike <3 said:

Hide the "score" and you're good

I like this bit. My 2 cents is have votes be immutable (like or dislike for comments only) then have the score only be displayed after liking/disliking. Great Thread here, hopefully it get filled with good comments and not trolls looking for lulz :D 

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

56 minutes ago, Zeus904 said:

Great Thread here

Thank.

56 minutes ago, Zeus904 said:

and not trolls looking for lulz

There aren't that many trolls here, if at all, are there?

[FP jh34ghu43gu]

7 hours ago, Zeus904 said:

only be displayed after liking/disliking

 

What if I hit the wrong button and need to change my vote?

6 hours ago, Master Throne Crimson said:

There aren't that many trolls here, if at all, are there?

Where are we? The internet. Where are the trolls? The internet. There are always going to be trolls.

 

12 hours ago, Master Throne Crimson said:

Quite a number of people, who aren't that knowledgeable when it comes to suggesting, dislike when they don't understand or misunderstand a comment and the domino effect of dislikes just follows smoothly.

Honestly I think it's weird anyone can waltz into the suggestions area and leave feedback with no knowledge of how backpack pricing operates. Sure it made sense when backpack was new and needed people to report but now there's a pretty dedicated sub-community of pricing people, why can't you just whitelist those people to the suggestion content and add an application wall for any newcomers*. "Supposedly" this will eliminate your dislike problem too because only "mature" suggesters will be able to dislike but I understand there's probably a good lot of immature pricing people who would still bandwagon on disliking people for the person not the text.

 

*I understand there is a counter-argument to be made to this that if there isn't a public system to pricing then it becomes open to claims of market manipulation by those inside but my counter points to that are:

1) Price mods are already in control and (to my knowledge) do a good job of checking each other

2) Any trader worth their salt should be using multiple sources (I always use all of: scm, mp, backpack listings for any item I need a price on) for any pricing needs

3) Even if a manipulation occurs 99% of items are traded through bots that generally run on their own price algorithm based on other sellers/buyers so a manipulation on the 1 of < 4 items that would be profitable to the manipulator should be easily seen and should be easily dealt with by moderators.

 

 

I'm not disregarding removing the dislike button, it probably should happen regardless of a whitelist being implemented, this thread just made me remember how ridiculous I think the public suggestion system is right now.

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

8 hours ago, FP jh34ghu43gu said:

Where are we? The internet. Where are the trolls? The internet. There are always going to be trolls.

You use logic, i use experience, i have not seen many trolls here, if at all.

 

Edit: Thats besides the point tho :'D

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

8 hours ago, FP jh34ghu43gu said:

I understand there is a counter-argument to be made to this that if there isn't a public system to pricing then it becomes open to claims of market manipulation by those inside but my counter points to that are

There isn't really any risk of manipulation there, its just voting, liking and disliking; neither of those make the suggestion get accepted, only valid proof does. However what would be a counter argument is people might feel like some part of freedom was taken away, dunno tho, depends on how complex the

8 hours ago, FP jh34ghu43gu said:

application wall for any newcomers

would be.

[Slam]

12 hours ago, FP jh34ghu43gu said:

why can't you just whitelist those people to the suggestion content and add an application wall for any newcomers*.

 

Because nobody's gonna want to go through the effort of making an application and waiting 6 months for bp.tf staff to finally review it, and the only way bp.tf's suggestion community has been growing is newcomers coming out of nowhere and trying their hand at it, or doing it wrong, getting directions to do it right, then finding they actually like the work associated with making most suggestions. Forcing them to do an application makes those people on the edge go "nah screw that, sounds like a waste of time", while it makes others go "welp they're probably gonna be gatekeeping and not let me in because I'm new at this, so nevermind".

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

Ayo! Any admin/price mod input on this? @ѕιи @FishtheFish @Foamy the Fearsome @ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy @Erik Afterall, this topic very well fits in with the encouragement of newbies and keeping suggesting positive (responses to newbie suggestions etc.).

[ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy]

I support the idea of hiding the score, so that you're less likely to see valid comments get hidden for having a large number of dislikes, even if some people do dislike the comment just to spite the person, since we wouldn't have to worry about dislike counts snowballing just because someone else disliked the comment.

[Foamy the Fearsome]

When I still suggested I felt that it served its purpose well. I do believe that the system as is has since become obsolete. As such, I would not be opposed to it being removed if the community wishes it to go.

[ajdislikesyournamingpolicy]

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5f19d9f24a3adb524807d346

 

Little edit for context though it's really not required:

Mod asks for the aggressiveness to be removed 

Gets mob down voted, queue ensuing mob mentality 

I agree its useful for determine when someone inexperienced happens to comment but regardless, the feature is obselete now. I noticed a lot more of my own comments being down voted here and there but also being up voted in rarer cases

[Zeus_Junior]

17 hours ago, AJ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said:

-

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5f19eb8cc94857618e2d58d9
would say the resuggest is also a good example 

[ajdislikesyournamingpolicy]

1 hour ago, Zeus_Junior said:

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5f19eb8cc94857618e2d58d9
would say the resuggest is also a good example 

                                                                       

 

I'd say it's a pretty redundant feature now

[🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥]

Liking/disliking in suggestions comments is now removed. Thank you mods for continuously listening to the feedback of the community!