puddingkip Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Now I now there is a thread made very recently that is somewhat similar, but I think this thread is fundamentally different. Any mod that disagrees might merge, but I also dislike the poll. So, in most parts of the world, downloading movies, shows songs and books is illegal, as our beloved member Brad Pitt http://puu.sh/6VSTT.png mentioned. However, in the Netherlands, downloading something can never be illegal. Many of the downloads occuring still are illegal due to the fact that people use torrents, which upload at the same time. Uploading is illegal, downloading isn't. But nobody ever got arrested here for downloading via torrents, as the government realises that's bonkerous fucking bullshit. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/sep/11/minnesota-woman-songs-illegally-downloaded she got sued out of a crap load of money, for 24!!! songs. Songs, movies and shows are somebodies property, and they spent millions of dollars making them. By downloading them, you don't pay them a pence. So should this be legal? Or considered theft? I heftily support the side that says it should be legal, as no artist ever went bankrupt because of downloading. People download and then might actually purchase the album/game/dvd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorisk322 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Downloading software actually is illegal in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Downloading software actually is illegal in here. nope. Problem is, there is 0.0 way of downloading it without uploading at the same time. This doesn't make downloading illegal though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Just saying that this forum is under american law I think (if there are any misunderstandings with brads comment). I start to like netherland more and more. nope. Problem is, there is 0.0 way of downloading it without uploading at the same time. This doesn't make downloading illegal though Torrents (and other peer-to-peer networks) are not the only way to download. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Just saying that this forum is under american law I think (if there are any misunderstandings with brads comment). I start to like netherland more and more. Torrents (and other peer-to-peer networks) are not the only way to download. how did I not get a notification for that quote And I know, but it is by FAAARRRR the easiest way. But I just watch movies and shows online these days, so easeh. And why US law? I mean, he's Canadian. And I didn't misunderstand brads quote, but welp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 how did I not get a notification for that quote And I know, but it is by FAAARRRR the easiest way. But I just watch movies and shows online these days, so easeh. And why US law? I mean, he's Canadian. And I didn't misunderstand brads quote, but welp Because I edited it in. Uh, well maybe it's a canadian host, but he doesn't seem to like piracy. Contents that promote the idea of infringing trademarks, copyrights, patents, or any other service mark. Any content that discusses how to defeat, crack, pirate or circumvent any technical copyright protection. Edit: how did I not get a notification for that quote And I know, but it is by FAAARRRR the easiest way. But I just watch movies and shows online these days, so easeh. And why US law? I mean, he's Canadian. And I didn't misunderstand brads quote, but welp For whole discographies torrent might be the easiest way but for single albums there are other methods, I also try to avoid torrent as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppier Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Yeah piracy should be illegal. It should be noted though that although people are sold for millions, they never pay that much. They start high and negotiate it down. They might pay a couple thousand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Yeah piracy should be illegal. It should be noted though that although people are sold for millions, they never pay that much. They start high and negotiate it down. They might pay a couple thousand. where does the yeah come from. Up until now, nobody agreed with piracy laws. And still, a couple thousand $$$ for some songs? That's insane. And it's not like they're the only ones doing it... I find it to be hypocritical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 "Having eradicated global poverty, starvation, and disease, and having ended all wars and solved all economic problems, we now turn our attention to the next pressing issue: unlicensed duplication and distribution of digital media." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
There Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 In the US, downloading stuff illegally isn't actually "illegal". By that, I mean that if you do it, you aren't going to be punished. Sharing copyrighted material, however, is. "Having eradicated global poverty, starvation, and disease, and having ended all wars and solved all economic problems, we now turn our attention to the next pressing issue: unlicensed duplication and distribution of digital media." Piracy could technically be said to be an economic problem. Besides, what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppier Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 where does the yeah come from. Up until now, nobody agreed with piracy laws. And still, a couple thousand $$$ for some songs? That's insane. And it's not like they're the only ones doing it... I find it to be hypocritical The thing is when someone pirates something they accept the fact that they can be fined thousands for pirating. And how would it be hypocritical? They were given the option of buying the music legally for much cheaper. Piracy could technically be said to be an economic problem. Besides, what's your point? People argue that piracy currently doesn't hurt companies. But if it becomes "mainstream" to pirate things, it will begin to hurt the entertainment industry even more. It is not sustainable in the long run. So it is an economic problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Piracy could technically be said to be an economic problem. Besides, what's your point? My point is there are actual problems in the world, genius. No one has ever missed my point in that statement before...Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, I take it. And yes, piracy is an economic problem, but downloading has never been shown to have any real negative impact on anyone, only claimed theoretical losses. So the fact that downloading is even an issue that gets discusses means that we all have a severe lack of perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 -downloading is legal, uploading is not- i believe this is true in the US as well, well at least its what i've always assumed. Yeah piracy should be illegal. It should be noted though that although people are sold for millions, they never pay that much. They start high and negotiate it down. They might pay a couple thousand. Except, it really shouldn't. If i buy a movie/book, i paid for it, and i therefore have the right to share it with my friends. Also, as software goes, Microsoft, for example, doesn't give two shits if people torrent windows because they pretty much give the windows keys away to the company selling the computer. Plus, anyone who's going to torrent something was very unlikely to buy it in the first place, so my torrenting it, that person is just going to spread that artist/movie/actor/book with friends, who may buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
There Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 i believe this is true in the US as well, well at least its what i've always assumed. Practically, this is true. Except, it really shouldn't. If i buy a movie/book, i paid for it, and i therefore have the right to share it with my friends. Eh, if you look at this from the point of materialistic items, it seems a lot different. Eg. I buy a car, and I can instantly make a perfect copy of the car and give it to my friends. I bought 1 car, and I am distributing multiple cars to my friends. Also, as software goes, Microsoft, for example, doesn't give two shits if people torrent windows because they pretty much give the windows keys away to the company selling the computer. Windows is just 1 example. Countless companies have essentially ruined their games with DRM to try to prevent piracy. That gives me the impression that it's a bit more than negligible problem. Plus, anyone who's going to torrent something was very unlikely to buy it in the first place, so my torrenting it, that person is just going to spread that artist/movie/actor/book with friends, who may buy it. Not necessarily. If you put a game on the market in a world with piracy and a world without piracy, the company that made the game will obviously make more money in the world without piracy. I don't see why we should deny these companies the right to profit off of their creativity and originality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 i believe this is true in the US as well, well at least its what i've always assumed. Practically, this is true. Except, it really shouldn't. If i buy a movie/book, i paid for it, and i therefore have the right to share it with my friends. Eh, if you look at this from the point of materialistic items, it seems a lot different. Eg. I buy a car, and I can instantly make a perfect copy of the car and give it to my friends. I bought 1 car, and I am distributing multiple cars to my friends. Also, as software goes, Microsoft, for example, doesn't give two shits if people torrent windows because they pretty much give the windows keys away to the company selling the computer. Windows is just 1 example. Countless companies have essentially ruined their games with DRM to try to prevent piracy. That gives me the impression that it's a bit more than negligible problem. Plus, anyone who's going to torrent something was very unlikely to buy it in the first place, so my torrenting it, that person is just going to spread that artist/movie/actor/book with friends, who may buy it. Not necessarily. If you put a game on the market in a world with piracy and a world without piracy, the company that made the game will obviously make more money in the world without piracy. I don't see why we should deny these companies the right to profit off of their creativity and originality. Because there hasn't be a truly original game in years. Most games all come from ideas that have already been made in the past--think of it like jokes, there are no new jokes. All jokes are some variation of jokes that have been around for centuries. So, you have people just retooling and creating a new story to old games, and then charging $60 a game. But, piracy in the gaming world is less than piracy in the movie world. And again, i can't remember the last time i saw an original movie. But, i can also tell you, there are hundreds of tv shows/movies and thousands of songs i want; and theres no chance in hell I'm going to go spend tens of thousands of dollars to buy them all, i'd just watch it on tv/listen to it on youtube/pandora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorisk322 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 nope. Problem is, there is 0.0 way of downloading it without uploading at the same time. This doesn't make downloading illegal though 'Het zonder enig commercieel oogmerk voor eigen privé gebruik downloaden van illegaal aanbod van muziek, film en boeken is in Nederland door de wetgever toegestaan. N.b. voor software en games is dit NIET toegestaan.' While the source of this bit is the Brein-website, I've read more trustworthy articles as well which say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 'Het zonder enig commercieel oogmerk voor eigen privé gebruik downloaden van illegaal aanbod van muziek, film en boeken is in Nederland door de wetgever toegestaan. N.b. voor software en games is dit NIET toegestaan.' While the source of this bit is the Brein-website, I've read more trustworthy articles as well which say the same thing. wait seriously? Ah well, I buy games anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppier Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Because there hasn't be a truly original game in years. Most games all come from ideas that have already been made in the past--think of it like jokes, there are no new jokes. All jokes are some variation of jokes that have been around for centuries. So, you have people just retooling and creating a new story to old games, and then charging $60 a game. But, piracy in the gaming world is less than piracy in the movie world. And again, i can't remember the last time i saw an original movie. First: that's opinion, laws shouldn't reflect the opinions of one person on the internet. Second: it still cost millions of dollars to make the new game. Third: why bother playing the game at all if they're the exact same game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 First: that's opinion, laws shouldn't reflect the opinions of one person on the internet. Second: it still cost millions of dollars to make the new game. Third: why bother playing the game at all if they're the exact same game? Theres a difference between originality and "the same". For example, the subsequent updates to the Call of Duty series aren't original, but they aren't identical. Most of them are just new guns and new maps, everything else is pretty much the same. I.e. Activision could easily release new map/gun packs to existing Call of Duty games and it would be exactly the same as releasing a new game. And the majority of people will always buy stuff legally rather than torrent. Torrenting will always be a small minority made up of an already small group of tech-savvy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
There Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Theres a difference between originality and "the same". For example, the subsequent updates to the Call of Duty series aren't original, but they aren't identical. Most of them are just new guns and new maps, everything else is pretty much the same. I.e. Activision could easily release new map/gun packs to existing Call of Duty games and it would be exactly the same as releasing a new game. And the majority of people will always buy stuff legally rather than torrent. Torrenting will always be a small minority made up of an already small group of tech-savvy people. Either way, Activision/Treyarch/IW managed to create a game that most people would deem desirable. While we can comment on the game all we want, we should reward companies that do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essoplerck Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Well, produsers of content should make a place where people can buy/download music, and without having to agree with apple's tos (Also, the ban on piratebay.com is lifted recently here! Jay!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outterspaces Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I once had a very long conversation about piracy with a friend who works for a British music label. The first thing he said to me, and that I already knew, is that the people who downloaded a movie or a song illegally would probably never have bought it in the first place. Those who would, will nevertheless. Here starts the madness RIAA and MPAA are trying to sell to everyone, not just to Americans ... trying to prove that the 100.000 people from around the world who downloaded the latest crappy Hollywood romcom illegally have cost them millions of dollars because they didn't go to see it or buy the DVD... Which reminds me, it is super 'illegal' and against common sense to pay 10, 20, 30 bucks for a DVD or BD after you've already watched the IMAX version! Live concerts are different. They are LIVE, each performance is different from the other.. DVDs/BDs should cost less than the premiere ticket. If anything, piracy and internet helped promote GOOD music and GOOD films on a global scale. LOTR and Harry Potter were (still are!) massively pirated but their profit is in the billions. Because of piracy I bought over 15.000 cds in the past 15 years (legit copies of course). I never buy anything if I am not absolutely sure it deserves my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Because of piracy I bought over 15.000 cds in the past 15 years (legit copies of course). That's like $10.000 a year, you must be pretty damn rich or seriously overspend on cd's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outterspaces Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 That's like $10.000 a year, you must be pretty damn rich or seriously overspend on cd's A little bit of both... Eh, good times, good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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