Desertbuggy Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Earlier in the week, a user by the name cuze sold me 27 via PayPal (found here https://backpack.tf/trust/76561198331993340). He was willing to go first and the trade went smoothly, I instantly transferred the cash from my bank account and awaited the payment to go through. Later in the week, the same user offered to buy my backpack in two $670 USD installments. Due to his considerably larger reputation, hours on the game, and previous history with me, I was somewhat comfortable going first. Immediately after completing the trade, cuze was unable to send the funds and admitted to scamming me to pay for rent. I have all the necessary proof on mobile and I'm hoping to transfer them to a file so that I can submit a report. I've withheld a report since he's still promising me the cash after he receives his paycheck. If anyone would like to see proof, you're welcome to add me on WhatsApp or any other service where you can transfer phone screenshots. All of these items were stolen, immediately transferred to an alt account, never to be seen again - https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198056793885#!/compare/1546560000/1546646400. Coincidentally, my PayPal payment unfortunately was unable to go through since I had "insufficient funds". While I'm aware we had an arrangement, the $37.51 I paid for 27 keys is a considerable amount less than what I lost in $670 USD. Because of this, I raised the proposition that I would not pay him until his much larger payment went through, or alternatively that we could subtract it from the total amount he owes me. I can provide proof in PayPal statements that I intended to send the payment through instantly and that I attempted to smooth it over with the user. Despite this, the user sent me a threatening email this morning claiming "I had until Saturday or else I will be trade, steam, and PayPal banned" for refusing to pay what I owed him. I'm wondering if this is the case, and whether or not I still have to transfer money to someone I know has scammed me and I doubt has any intention to pay me back. Kind regards, Desertbuggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy Posted January 9, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 9, 2019 He's just trying to get the extra little bit out of you to milk all he can in my opinion (I doubt he'll pay you). You're still not allowed to scam him even if he scammed you, but you could try explaining that you'll pay him when he pays you (granted, you're still in the loss here) - you still have the trade agreement that you'd pay him for the Keys. In the event that he refuses to pay you, I'd bring it up with PayPal to see if they can transfer the funds themselves, in which case then you should 100% pay him to not be reported for scamming. That's my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I want to see some screenshots.. 6 minutes ago, Desertbuggy said: Immediately after completing the trade, cuze was unable to send the funds and admitted to scamming me to pay for rent. Seems pretty cut and dried. 7 minutes ago, Desertbuggy said: the user sent me a threatening email this morning claiming "I had until Saturday or else I will be trade, steam, and PayPal banned" for refusing to pay what I owed him. Heckin' wot. Let's get this straight: he scammed you, then he admitted it, and then he wants you to give him more money? I'd politely remind him that he admitted to scamming you, and he will be in much more trouble for that than you would be for an honest mistake. 14 minutes ago, Desertbuggy said: he's still promising me the cash after he receives his paycheck. This seems unlikely, based on the information you've provided. 15 minutes ago, Desertbuggy said: I raised the proposition that[...]we could subtract it from the total amount he owes me. This seems completely reasonable and I believe that any person with honest intentions would agree to it. If you honestly believe he has any intentions of paying you back, then waiting to report is probably the right move--if he's not 100% intending to scam you, then a preemptive report could piss him off and cause him to keep the money. However, based on the information provided, it looks to me like he's committed to the scam and is trying to buy time and squeeze a few more dollars out of you. His +trusts aren't impressive at all; scammers are smart enough to spend a bit of time building trust so that someone will hand them $500+ of stuff. Also, everything is very recent. +trusts, even his Steam profile comments. Looks like a scammer bought an account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertbuggy Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy 7309 said: He's just trying to get the extra little bit out of you to milk all he can in my opinion (I doubt he'll pay you). You're still not allowed to scam him even if he scammed you, but you could try explaining that you'll pay him when he pays you (granted, you're still in the loss here) - you still have the trade agreement that you'd pay him for the Keys. In the event that he refuses to pay you, I'd bring it up with PayPal to see if they can transfer the funds themselves, in which case then you should 100% pay him to not be reported for scamming. That's my 2 cents. You're suggesting I still ask PayPal to pay him even if he refuses the much larger amount? It seems unfair when I could clearly just subtract it from the total he owes me, as any reasonable person would do. I doubt he has any intention to pay me. Only my ignorance has led me this far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Desertbuggy said: You're suggesting I still ask PayPal to pay him even if he refuses the much larger amount? It seems unfair when I could clearly just subtract it from the total he owes me, as any reasonable person would do. I doubt he has any intention to pay me. Only my ignorance has led me this far. Assuming you can show it was an honest mistake that the payment didn't go through, and you told/tell him that you're applying that amount as a credit towards what he owes you, I believe you'll be 100% fine as far as being reported. Even if you can't prove that it was an honest mistake, I believe that your willingness to correct the mistake by applying it to his debt to you should show that you have honest intentions. I wouldn't worry about being reported anyway--scammers aren't likely to report anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertbuggy Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, 3.50 said: Assuming you can show it was an honest mistake that the payment didn't go through, and you told/tell him that you're applying that amount as a credit towards what he owes you, I believe you'll be 100% fine as far as being reported. Even if you can't prove that it was an honest mistake, I believe that your willingness to correct the mistake by applying it to his debt to you should show that you have honest intentions. I wouldn't worry about being reported anyway--scammers aren't likely to report anyone. Okay thanks for the help then. Should I wait longer or just go ahead and report him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy Posted January 9, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Desertbuggy said: You're suggesting I still ask PayPal to pay him even if he refuses the much larger amount? It seems unfair when I could clearly just subtract it from the total he owes me, as any reasonable person would do. I doubt he has any intention to pay me. Only my ignorance has led me this far. No, I'm saying get PayPal to request the funds from him if that's at all possible (I guess they'd treat it similarly to a chargeback?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Desertbuggy said: Okay thanks for the help then. Should I wait longer or just go ahead and report him. I'd just report him now, and tell him you're doing it. In the extremely unlikely event that he's not just a scammer, he might panic and actually pay up. I wouldn't count on it, though. 1 hour ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy 7309 said: No, I'm saying get PayPal to request the funds from him if that's at all possible (I guess they'd treat it similarly to a chargeback?). I'm not an expert on the matter, but I don't think PayPal will touch this. PayPal funds weren't involved in the scamming (even though it was a "PayPal scam" in TF2 terms, the only items that actually changed hands were TF2 items) so I'd expect that it's outside their jurisdiction. I don't know if you can even open a dispute for a transaction that never happened. Basically, PayPal can reverse transactions that were a mistake, but they can't force someone to keep a promise. That's a legal matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azureus Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Damn it, traded with this guy last weekend myself. 350 keys down the drain, sadly. Sincerely doubt that this guy would even pay you back after he gotten his paycheck. He's been completely ignoring my messages on Steam for the last three days after I last heard a peep from him. He never admitted to scamming when I talked to him, though. I made an album of our chat log here: https://imgur.com/a/pKG5uuX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy Posted January 11, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 11, 2019 15 minutes ago, Azureus said: Damn it, traded with this guy last weekend myself. 350 keys down the drain, sadly. Sincerely doubt that this guy would even pay you back after he gotten his paycheck. He's been completely ignoring my messages on Steam for the last three days after I last heard a peep from him. He never admitted to scamming when I talked to him, though. I made an album of our chat log here: https://imgur.com/a/pKG5uuX You should take photos of your trade history from that point until now and photos of your PayPal transactions from that point until now. Use those with the chat logs to make a full report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azureus Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 48 minutes ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy 7309 said: You should take photos of your trade history from that point until now and photos of your PayPal transactions from that point until now. Use those with the chat logs to make a full report. Just finished the report on SteamRep, so hopefully he'll be marked soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertbuggy Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 10 hours ago, Azureus said: Just finished the report on SteamRep, so hopefully he'll be marked soon enough. Fingers crossed man. You're welcome to add me for any additional proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Alex Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I have to say, that was quite a difference in perception of trustworthiness of this account. I saw so many warning signs that I created a (private) report on Jan 4. BP mod did not agree with me but that's another thing. Meanwhile, someone was willing to give the guy hundreds of dollars and wait several days without even leaving a temporary -trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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