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"Listings must be reasonable" rule - why is this a rule?


Toad

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I'm a bit in disbelief as to how a silly rule like this made its way on here, so I am proposing to the admins that we trash it. According to the rule, "Your listings must be reasonable and realistic. For example, don't make a buy order for a Golden Frying Pan at 1 scrap." 

 

I must ask, why should I be told what I buy/sell things at? If I put in a listing to buy a Golden Frying Pan for 1 scrap, why should you care? The market will decide if my listing is doable or not. Even if the listings get flooded with them, the highest paid listings are always listed first. Additionally, I've bought numerous items that many would define as an "unreasonable price", do those not count or what?

 

So I am wondering, why does this rule exist? 

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It's considered spam and there is 99.99999999% chance no one will sell you a golden pan for a scrap. golden pans are like $2000 dollars while a scrap is worth around 1 cent

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It's considered spam and there is 99.99999999% chance no one will sell you a golden pan for a scrap. golden pans are like $2000 dollars while a scrap is worth around 1 cent

 

Again, then let the market decide if my listing is doable or not. It's not necessarily spam because backpack.tf puts the highest listings first.

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Again, then let the market decide if my listing is doable or not. It's not necessarily spam because backpack.tf puts the highest listings first.

Well I can sort listings by lowest price I will see your listing first. Also the majority of sellers and buyers of golden pans sell it and buy it at high prices. So the market has already decided what listings are doable. 

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Again, then let the market decide if my listing is doable or not. It's not necessarily spam because backpack.tf puts the highest listings first.

It's just dumb and unnecessary. Keep your buy orders realistic so you don't appear as immature or ignorant.

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The rule was initially introduced to prevent troll listings, which I don't believe yours were, but unreasonable listings take up server space and spam the classified pages for no reason. Your buy orders had a link to a bazaar trade with a pricelist. If you've developed a list of reasonable prices you will buy at, list at those here rather than blanket listing everything at a quickbuy price that is completely ridiculous on mid to high tier items.

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I'm not good at quoting things.

 

>blanket listing everything at a quickbuy price

 

Ohh gosh, this is the problem. I did just fine with my listings up until some update where you couldn't make "general listings." For example, I can only make buy orders with specific unusual effects, before, you could make a listing on the unusual hat with no effect, if that makes sense.

 

>but unreasonable listings take up server space 

 

Server space was the conclusion I could come to as to why this rule was implemented. I have a few questions about this; was this a problem before this rule was implemented? And how much space exactly? I honestly don't know anything about coding, I would just think it didn't take up THAT much space, ya know? Even still, did it ever pose a problem?

 

>and spam the classified pages for no reason.

 

It may spam the front page, but other than that, I don't see it effecting anything else.

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I mean yeah they don't really hurt anything most of the time but they're pointless spam so why leave them there? Nobody is going to sell you a golden pan for a scrap or a god tier unusual for 8 keys. If they did you'd be reported as a shark! So why would we leave the buy orders? It's also misleading if there are no other buy orders on that hat, an unboxer could, for example, be confused about the value if he thinks 8 keys is considered a reasonable buy order.

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Isn't that just subjective though? it's just a low price that may or may not be fulfilled. And whoa, wait a minute, if I buy a certain unusual/pan really cheaply, it's sharking? Sharking as I know it as intent behind it, a trickery element if you will. If someone wants to sell me their burning flames team captain for a scrap because they saw my listing, that's their choice, no? 

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Isn't that just subjective though? it's just a low price that may or may not be fulfilled. And whoa, wait a minute, if I buy a certain unusual/pan really cheaply, it's sharking? Sharking as I know it as intent behind it, a trickery element if you will. If someone wants to sell me their burning flames team captain for a scrap because they saw my listing, that's their choice, no? 

 

Not getting into that whole debate here. I said you'd be reported, not necessarily banned. Just explaining the rationale behind the reasonable price rule. As I said; you have made a price list of reasonable prices you'll buy at. List at those prices.

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I'm not on the dev side and can't speak to how much listings bog down the database. I just remember Brad emphasizing a year or two ago to ban people for troll suggestions, especially around April Fool's day. Surely a few listings aren't an issue, but I can imagine it being a problem if everyone started doing it, so we have measures in place to not encourage it.

 

Think of it this way. Just because you can, why should you? It does nothing but add load to the servers, even if it's a very small contribution. So if does nothing but harm, why would you do it to begin with?

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I've seen your buy listings on many medic hats at 8.56 keys when they are worth 20x or more. They all just have you linking to something that states prices saying you're buying all effects for reasonable prices.

 

8.56 keys if not reasonable for a high tier medic hat with a mid-high tier effect.

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Mmm, not to take sides, but both parties are at fault in different ways. For instance, if backpack had kept general listings, e.g, a buy order for all coupe disasters at 8.5 keys, rather than forcing people to make individual listings, this problem wouldn't have occurred. Funnily enough, because backpack removed those general listings, they indirectly caused people to spam every single hat. My two cents, ~S T E W

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Mmm, not to take sides, but both parties are at fault in different ways. For instance, if backpack had kept general listings, e.g, a buy order for all coupe disasters at 8.5 keys, rather than forcing people to make individual listings, this problem wouldn't have occurred. Funnily enough, because backpack removed those general listings, they indirectly caused people to spam every single hat. My two cents, ~S T E W

 

People broke the rules WAY more frequently when there were general listings, because of the exact opposite reason - they didn't want to list at a low price and be at the bottom of the classified order. They wanted to list at the price they were willing to pay for this specific effect or that one. This system is significantly better.

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People broke the rules WAY more frequently when there were general listings, because of the exact opposite reason - they didn't want to list at a low price and be at the bottom of the classified order. They wanted to list at the price they were willing to pay for this specific effect or that one. This system is significantly better.

Aha, after i commented, I figured something of the sort was behind the removal of the general listings.

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Possible Solution:  Option to make a personal price spreadsheet with sell/buy prices. Example:

 

Name______________________________Backpack.tf price_______________Buying price____________Selling Price______Hide Listing

Green confetti Magistrate's mullet________10 keys_______________________8 keys 7 ref_______________10 keys______________YES

Green confetti Magistrate's mullet________10 keys_______________________50 % off bp.tf price_________110%  bp.tf____________YES

...

Buying notes: "Buying at these prices! Send a trade offer."_____________________________ 

Selling notes: "Selling at the listed price! Click the button."

 

 

If price entered into spreadsheet it automatically generates a price listing at that buy/sell price.

 

 

Ps. A feature to copy paste from excel into personal price spreadsheet would also be handy. 

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Possible Solution:  Option to make a personal price spreadsheet with sell/buy prices. Example:

 

Name______________________________Backpack.tf price_______________Buying price____________Selling Price______Hide Listing

Green confetti Magistrate's mullet________10 keys_______________________8 keys 7 ref_______________10 keys______________YES

Green confetti Magistrate's mullet________10 keys_______________________50 % off bp.tf price_________110%  bp.tf____________YES

...

Buying notes: "Buying at these prices! Send a trade offer."_____________________________ 

Selling notes: "Selling at the listed price! Click the button."

 

 

If price entered into spreadsheet it automatically generates a price listing at that buy/sell price.

 

 

Ps. A feature to copy paste from excel into personal price spreadsheet would also be handy. 

I think this is a pretty good idea.

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My two cents on this issue is that i can spend 5 hours just looking at backpack.tf classified by refreshing the page every 1-2 minutes and looking at what comes up next. Now the thing that makes me mad is when i looking at buy orders for a say 3,000 key hat like the burning killer exclusive and theres buy orders for 8 keys. This is completely unnessary and the way we can combat it is to create a Unknown or craft hat icon to use for people buying unusuals or even ones with specific effects somewhat like what Tf2op has. Now what i do not understand is why anyone would pay 1 scrap or even say 8 keys for something worth say 3,000 keys. WIth how tf2 market works an item like a strange festive rocket could be 50 keys one day and 10 keys three years but again it has to be stressed that it takes time for item prices to drop, so its best to save those buy orders when said hats are dropping in price. The last and final thing i want to say is how do people feel about others quickbuying new hats. A good example is say when the elf esteem was released and people had buy orders to buy ANY effect elf esteem for 8 keys. Now im not saying this shouldnt be done but alot of new people who had no idea of the value of their hat sold them to that 8 key lister. 

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I did just fine with my listings up until some update where you couldn't make "general listings." For example, I can only make buy orders with specific unusual effects, before, you could make a listing on the unusual hat with no effect, if that makes sense.

 

You mean like this?

http://i.imgur.com/c5Qwm1J.png

 

You can still do it, only problem is that they wont show up on classified listings for any of the effects.

 

All you have to do is remove the number at the end of the URL, then you can create a buy order from there.

 

Unless this type of listing is against the rules, in which case, don't do it

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