Do you think one should be marked for trading with scammers/scammer alts?

[77777777777777777777777777]

We've had a short discussion about this in the status updates. I'd like to hear everyone's input on the question.

Say there's a Spellbound Hound Dog I can get for a price that satisfies both me and the seller. However, the seller is, in respective scenarios A and B, a marked scammer or someone who traded with one, and subsequently got marked.

 

In scenario A, what should happen to me if I traded that person knowing they're a scammer? In this scenario, I buy the Hound Dog not because of profit, but because it's a very rare hat (very few ever hit the market) and I main Heavy. From an outsider's standpoint, I am condoning scamming because I can easily flip it due to its rarity. However, I am not condoning scamming as I bought the hat not because of its price, but rather out of my own volition.

 

In scenario B, what should happen to me if I traded that person knowing they traded with scammers? In this scenario, again, I buy the Hound Dog not because of profit, but because I want it for keeps. From an outsider's standpoint, I am condoning scamming because I am encouraging the circulation of stolen goods in the market. However, I am not condoning scamming, and neither is the dude who sold it to me.

 

The main problem here is that SteamRep, FoG and other communities of the like do the following:

 

• Catch someone buying a hat off a marked individual for whatever reason

• Mark the buyer because they've traded with a marked individual

• Case is closed

 

I personally believe this is what should happen:

 

• Catch someone buying a hat off a scammer

• Review the case taking into account the many factors that contributed in the sale

• Case is closed with multiple possible outcomes, ranging from a caution tag to the highest punishment available.

 

However, it's here that our intricacy comes within: does someone who trade with a marked scammer deserve to be labelled like them?

Say X buys a hat off Y for cheap. X is in principle condoning scamming and fraudulent activity, but he's not actually hurting anyone, be it directly or indirectly.

SteamRep's guidelines expect the impossible from human beings. The taboo nature of trading with a scammer is enough to entice people with a lot of funds and very little concern to trade them, more so if they have hats that have a high demand. (I know for a fact a lot of people would kill for their favorite hat with their favorite effect, per instance).

People are bound to buy hats off scammers to satisfy their desires, be they financial or personal. Sanctioning users who do so exactly like scammers are being sanctioned is denying human nature and penalizing people for being people.

 

No, I'm not saying it's alright to trade marked scammers for profit. I myself reported someone buying a PE KE off McLovin's alt to OP.

No, I'm not saying that because people are bound to buy them, no punishment should be involved.

All I'm saying is that I shouldn't get marked and labelled identically to a scammer because I bought a hat I wanted, be it for financial gain or personal usage. Because I'm not one, I didn't steal anything from anyone.

[Mark Unread]

I think that people who trade with scamers for profit deserves to get tagged, however I am against who gets tagged just even for have traded a weapon, be it gifted or not, or if the one who traded such item wanted it just for collection or else.

Many unusuals or items are going to get cursed if every single person gets tagged.

And also, looks like that more's the value of a certain item, more you can get tagged as a scammer.

[fluffyy]

if you know theyre marked or look fishy dont fucking trade with them its simple

[Дебра]

if you know theyre markedor look fishy dont fucking trade with them its simple

 

should items really be made 'unobtainable' because some nerds say you shouldn't be able to obtain said items?

[fluffyy]

should items really be made 'unobtainable' because some nerds say you shouldn't be able to obtain said items?

go ahead and trade with them no one is stopping you, then suffer the consequences that you're warned about 

 

should items be unobtainable just cause the police say so? no. but you still get punished.

[Kevin the Chicken God]

I have an example of this recently

A user who was also a shaman collector added me to offer on my shaman. He was permad 8 months ago for scamming but had become a fairly prominent csgo and still a large tf2 trader. His offer was legitimate and wouldn't have helped him profit off of stolen goods. If I traded with him I probably would have been permad as well because of the value of the items, but what purpose does that serve?

[funkle]

The ban for trading with scammers is stupid as fuck in my opinion. So many good traders have been banned because of it when it honestly isn't that big of a deal. A temp ban might be alright, but these perm bans are just crazy man. Tbh I was thinking about some of these rules we follow when we trade, some of them are broken as hell, but we're staying on the trading with marked scammers thing for now.

[Дебра]

go ahead and trade with them no one is stopping you, then suffer the consequences that you're warned about 

 

should items be unobtainable just cause the police say so? no. but you still get punished.

but the police have actual authority

they also dont walk up to a harmless hat in a shop and make it illegal.

[person]

How about we just get rid of steamrep in all

[CheddarZX]

How about we just get rid of steamrep in all

how do we replace it?

[funkle]

How about we just get rid of steamrep in all

Steamrep is so slow it's almost a non-factor anyway. 

[Eased_Is_Swag]

In my opinion if you trade with anoyne you should be aware of exactly the consequences that may follow. You don't have to care but just take them accordingly and don't winge.

Most big traders as stated who've been banned for trading with scammers traded many times after their warning which is down to their own greed and naivety.

Just my opinion don't bite my head off.

[fluffyy]

but the police have actual authority

they also dont walk up to a harmless hat in a shop and make it illegal.

steamrep has authority too, which is why youre marked and theyre making it against the rules to have a hat whose origin is from a scammer or someone who traded with one, no matter the price or deal

[jelly jiggler]

Ayy lmao no

 

People marked by sr 1000s

 

People prosecuted by police 0

[Jams]

I honestly think these changes should be made:

 

#1: There is a SEPARATE tag for KNOWINGLY trading with marked scammers. Just to distinguish between BEING a scammer and TRADING with a scammer. Also having a caution variant for shady cases. 

 

#2: If no profit is made, then no tag. 

[LaughingLollipop]

Do you think someone should be able to sell stolen goods at will?

 

Do you think buying stolen goods is a good idea?

 

If you answered yes to either of those questions you should probably re-evaluate your life choices, unless you're already in jail where you belong.

[jelly jiggler]

I honestly think these changes should be made:

 

#1: There is a SEPARATE tag for KNOWINGLY trading with marked scammers. Just to distinguish between BEING a scammer and TRADING with a scammer. Also having a caution variant for shady cases.

 

#2: If no profit is made, then no tag.

 

Almost none of the admins trade. I remember noname stating a burning pullover is like 3000 cash ezy lol

[Uncle Dong]

It seems the people who trade with scammers are getting more attention the the ACTUAL scammers

[EnderBX]

Getting banned for trading with a scammer is retarded to me, doesn't make sense to be banned, even PERMA BANNED for trading with a scammer. A 1 week or some kind of small trade ban would be good, a ban is too much

[Hot Shot]

There should be a cooldown on scammed items. Like, X amount of time passed and Y amount of times it's traded hands between actual people. There are "cursed" items floating around that get you marked as a scammer, for trading with a guy who traded with a guy who traded with a guy and so on who traded with a scammer at one point. That's nonsense. I understand the need to mark anyone who tries to fence for thieves, but the figurative net is too dense and bogs the system down with cases that help absolutely no one.

[Gren]

Trading with scammers happens on a spectrum.  On one extreme you have buying a hat for 50% off from an account with 0.9 hrs in TF2 and Steam Level 2.  On the other end you have something like trading with someone who's been marked 3 years ago for a relatively negligible offense.  The punishment has to mirror where the crime falls on that spectrum, i.e. an obvious for profit trade for a hat that's obviously been scammed should have some serious repercussions. A harmless trade that was neither for directly scammed items, nor for unrealistic profit shouldn't really warrant much static.  

[Дебра]

Seeing that you people love to compare it to real world.

Man walks into walmart

Buys some groceries

Nothing shady

Turns out he stole a baguette from the local bakery that day

Should walmart be shut down?

 

Big traders are much more similar to walmart than to people purposefully buying stolen goods on the deep web.

[fluffyy]

Seeing that you people love to compare it to real world.

Man walks into walmart

Buys some groceries

Nothing shady

Turns out he stole a baguette from the local bakery that day

Should walmart be shut down?

 

Big traders are much more similar to walmart than to people purposefully buying stolen goods on the deep web.

How the fuck are you supposed to know he stole something earlier that day, thats such a shitty comparison considering theres no steamrep irl to know what they did and no way to tell if he is shady or not and getting marked is nowhere near getting "shut down" considering you can still trade

 

And the answer would still be no cause its a first offense and "Walmart" would receive a warning or caution if it was a second offense at least put some effort into your steamrep vendetta

[E-Arkham]

Not even remotely comparable.  If you tried to accuse Walmart of something, they would ignore you or bury you in lawyers and continue business as usual in either case.

[The Fox Donut]

Buying of Scammers or a Fence is part of the big and evergrowing scamming problem that haunts Steam. Imagine no one would buy from Scammers. They would go "out of business" soon.

 

So, yes:

Knowingly trading with a Scammer = mark

Knowingly trading with a obvious Scammer Alt or Fence = mark

 

No brainer in my opinion. If you knowingly want to be part of the scamming problem you should be treated like the problem (=mark).