TheAmazingPaul Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Is this trilby a dupe? http://backpack.tf/item/3365698433 It's in both there backpacks, but its such a short history... can anyone else shed some light on this? (I'm going on the assumption that it is.) Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cares Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 It's not. It would say this: http://backpack.tf/item/94649415 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted August 13, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 13, 2015 It's not. It would say this: http://backpack.tf/item/94649415 Are you certain of this? I thought it only flagged it as a dupe if item IDs were not chronological. It's perfectly possible for a hat to be duped but no item IDs to generate like that yet, isn't it? Especially with a short history. Also it is in both their backpacks at the same time, with the same history. Might have just not updated one yet, don't know exactly how this works. http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198034900611 http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198080179568 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cares Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Are you certain of this? I thought it only flagged it as a dupe if item IDs were not chronological. It's perfectly possible for a hat to be duped but no item IDs to generate like that yet, isn't it? Especially with a short history. Also it is in both their backpacks at the same time, with the same history. Might have just not updated one yet, don't know exactly how this works. http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198034900611 http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198080179568 History has yet to be updated then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted August 13, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 13, 2015 History has yet to be updated then. Even though julia got the hat like 2 weeks ago and there are numerous backpack snapshots for the other guy between then and now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishtheFish Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 You could've easily Googled this... Here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cares Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Even though julia got the hat like 2 weeks ago and there are numerous backpack snapshots for the other guy between then and now? This would be a bug with stats.tf then. Presumably the user got their hat duped twice before Julia traded with them, which should have made stats.tf tag it as a dupe. In that case Steam Support is to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNC Phoenix® Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 If one hat is found in two backpacks, it is duped. Regardless what any system says. And yes, backpack.tf is not reliable. I found several duped hats that is not marked on backpack.tf (which some sellers also use I noticed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 It's still a nice hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysaurus Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Incase anybody is viewing the topic late, OP posted it when the backpack.tf item history did not have the hat flagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted August 13, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 13, 2015 This would be a bug with stats.tf then. Presumably the user got their hat duped twice before Julia traded with them, which should have made stats.tf tag it as a dupe. In that case Steam Support is to blame. I don't think it's a bug, it's just the way it works. It identifies a dupe by mismatched IDs, but that doesn't always happen. Even with duped hats that have been identified, there are periods in their histories where the IDs for both versions of the hat line up chronologically, which is what made me think it was possible for none to generate out of order yet even if a hat had been duped. Or maybe I don't understand how it works properly, idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cares Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I don't think it's a bug, it's just the way it works. It identifies a dupe by mismatched IDs, but that doesn't always happen. Even with duped hats that have been identified, there are periods in their histories where the IDs for both versions of the hat line up chronologically, which is what made me think it was possible for none to generate out of order yet even if a hat had been duped. Or maybe I don't understand how it works properly, idk. The user had two items with the same id in their backpack. That should be tagged as dupe. Looks like an admin manually tagged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted August 13, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 13, 2015 The user had two items with the same id in their backpack. That should be tagged as dupe. Looks like an admin manually tagged it. Did they have the same ID though? I don't know what happens when a dupe occurs. They'd have the same original ID, but would the ID of the dupe not be different, like when a hat is altered or whatever? Not trying to argue with you, sorry, just curious to understand how a dupe is identified, makes it easier to spot ones that have not been flagged yet in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNC Phoenix® Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Did they have the same ID though? I don't know what happens when a dupe occurs. They'd have the same original ID, but would the ID of the dupe not be different, like when a hat is altered or whatever? Not trying to argue with you, sorry, just curious to understand how a dupe is identified, makes it easier to spot ones that have not been flagged yet in future. I think it works more like this. You have an item with an id. When it becomes duped, basically you get two items with the same orginial ID. Everytime you then change something on the item, like painting it, it will receive a new ID. But that is irrelevant since the original ID will always be there. That is why ( do not know if it still works) some people gifted their hats. You can not ungift a hat and once it is gifted in the past it got a fresh ID with the past erased on the item. That way you could hide an item being duped. And you can never tell the difference which item is the copy and which is the original one (as some traders try to make you belive). System flag items as duped when it finds two items with same original ID (or any ID I guess). Now it might be that backpack.tf works so everytime two backpacks have item with same ID, it flags it. However backpack.tf also works in a way that it updates backpacks people visits. If I remember correctly, updating all backpacks all the time would require so much power and servers it would be not possible. Instead each time you visit a backpack, that backpack gets updated. Which means some backpacks gets updated often and some does not (some dupes stay hidden longer time I guess). Not to mention of all accounts with TF2, 50 % are privates. Which means a duped item can stay hidden on a private account and hiding that another item is duped. I belive that is why all systems are against private profiles and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted August 14, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 14, 2015 It doesn't flag items with same original ID though, as demonstrated by this thread. Both backpacks were updated, that was not the issue. Nor were they private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cares Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Did they have the same ID though? I don't know what happens when a dupe occurs. They'd have the same original ID, but would the ID of the dupe not be different, like when a hat is altered or whatever? Not trying to argue with you, sorry, just curious to understand how a dupe is identified, makes it easier to spot ones that have not been flagged yet in future. From what I understand the guy had the item twice before the trade occurred. Duped items copy all the original's attributes, including its current id and original id. The system doesn't recognize that however (it only cares about ids not being in chronological order.) If he would have been duped after the trade its id would be lower than the one Julia received and thus marked as dupe. But somehow he managed to get the same hat twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted August 16, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 16, 2015 For future reference, who do I report it to if this occurs again? Can the price mods manually flag dupes or is that only the admins like fiskie et al? Should I just do a bug report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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