Zapperzz Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Saying that backpack.tf is the reason our economy is fucked up, is like saying journalists are responsible for wars because they're the ones who report them. We're simply reflecting the market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Prof. Sugarcube♥ Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 But you can't deny bp.tf has some hold of the market which influences prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gent♥ Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 People who say that backpack.tf is the reason X happens is like saying journalists are responsible for wars because they're the ones who report them. We're simply reflecting the market Yes. What are we supposed to discuss, why is this a thread and not a status update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffyy Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 we are the market for items that aren't rarities or oddities people see bud undercutters, panic, and sell for even less, especially the ones who create 20 listings and clog up the visible ones on the items page which further influences the panic people same goes for keys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Дебра Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 To be fair backpack.tf is to blame for bud/key prices fluctuating so quickly. Without backpack panic selling won't have such an effect because you can't just search for the cheapest seller on outpost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zirune Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Anybody who says backpack causes or has caused all the problems in the economy is an idiot. Anybody who says backpack has no influence on the economy whatsoever, and is simply reflecting the market, is equally an idiot. Reporting on economics influences it. It's pretty obvious when you look at real-world economies, where things like quarterly reports, news of layoffs or reports of executives selling shares can all affect a company's share prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gren Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Backpack.tf has a bigger influence on unusual trading in this economy than any other entity. There, I said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVenomWith1n Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You can't blame bp.tf for everything bad in the economy, but you can still blame it for a few things. As Fireball mentioned, undercutters on the classifieds cause people to sell for less and less. When something on bp.tf drops in price (for example, buds) people panic and sell them off as quickly as they can for low prices, thus leading it to drop even more. Also, this isn't too much to do with the economy but I'm really tired of people that treat backpack like a bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cares Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 backpack.tf has a huge influence on low tier items and an incorrect suggestion can permanently damage the market for that item, especially if that market isn't very significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabislav Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Long218 live the keys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankingBot Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Saying that backpack.tf is the reason our economy is fucked up, is like saying journalists are responsible for wars because they're the ones who report them. We're simply reflecting the market Perfectly explains why government wants to control them, press freedom ftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤ Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Saying that backpack.tf is the reason our economy is fucked up, is like saying journalists are responsible for wars because they're the ones who report them. We're simply reflecting the market well Backpack.tf has a bigger influence on unusual trading in this economy than any other entity. There, I said it. bp.tf pricing policy with overpay taking into account b.o's that are coming from scammers quickselling highjacked and stolen unusuals. yeah tf2 trades would be so much better without pricing unusual. at least I would still had some interested into them but I now prefer items that are to rare for a random kid in the world to get scammed off resulting to quicksells and loses on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AiR²³ Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You have one rare, high tier unusual, it sold for 500 pure keys. BP.tf price: 500 keys You have another rare, high tier, third gen unusual (say roboactive), it sold for a collection of third gen unusual hats, pro ks weapons and no pure, at all. You do "minis" on all of those items and multiply by 0,9x and you have a theoretical price of 500 keys. BP.tf price: 500 keys. To sum up you have one item that sold for 500 keys and you have another item that sold for a crapload of stuff theoretically worth 500 keys, based on price checks for other hats that never sold for pure but theoretically have a pure price, too. How can you compare those two unusual prices, at all? You can't. Yet it is done on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤ Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You have one rare, high tier unusual, it sold for 500 pure keys. BP.tf price: 500 keys You have another rare, high tier, third gen unusual (say roboactive), it sold for a collection of third gen unusual hats, pro ks weapons and no pure, at all. You do "minis" on all of those items and multiply by 0,9x and you have a theoretical price of 500 keys. BP.tf price: 500 keys. To sum up you have one item that sold for 500 keys and you have another item that sold for a crapload of stuff theoretically worth 500 keys, based on price checks for other hats that never sold for pure but theoretically have a pure price, too. How can you compare those two unusual prices, at all? You can't. Yet it is done on a daily basis. no I mean You trade a 500 keys hat for a 500 keys hat the hat that was offered will get a 0.9 overpay this is ridiculous and stupid and can drop the prices dramatically on a hat.especially if you hard scope it for your own reasons.like some suggesters do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤ Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Perfectly explains why government wants to control them, press freedom ftw media are controlled if not by governments they will be controled by private investers. there is no such thing as free press.at least not in the modern era. everyone who thinks that there is its not a journalist. you get paid to support your bosses interests and nothing more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Bakula Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 no I mean You trade a 500 keys hat for a 500 keys hat the hat that was offered will get a 0.9 overpay this is ridiculous and stupid and can drop the prices dramatically on a hat.especially if you hard scope it for your own reasons.like some suggesters do... Guy 1 gets the hat he wants, Guy 2 gets a different hat of similar value that he now has to sell instead. That's why overpay exists, because rather than paying pure, you're dumping more stuff on the other person that they have to sell instead. It's like if your boss paid you in fish. Sure, you've got your paycheck's value in fish, but if you want something else, you then gotta either convince other people to take your fish or set up a fish stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankingBot Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 media are controlled if not by governments they will be controled by private investers. there is no such thing as free press.at least not in the modern era. everyone who thinks that there is its not a journalist. you get paid to support your bosses interests and nothing more than that. you do know that i am explaining why journalist and the press affects prices right, there's a good reason why people wants to control them, but thanks for making it clearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gren Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Guy 1 gets the hat he wants, Guy 2 gets a different hat of similar value that he now has to sell instead. That's why overpay exists, because rather than paying pure, you're dumping more stuff on the other person that they have to sell instead. It's like if your boss paid you in fish. Sure, you've got your paycheck's value in fish, but if you want something else, you then gotta either convince other people to take your fish or set up a fish stand. Yea, that's the theory of overpay, however it isn't implemented at 10% in all unusual trades. Sometimes there's no overpay at all and sometimes there's a lot more than 10%, yet bp.tf just applies 10% overpay to every trade. This results in inaccurate prices. Then there's the fact that unusuals are so rare and there are so many different angles to every different trade (was it a trade for a "dream" hat? How good was the seller/buyer at negotiating? How impressionable (meaning easy to influence) was the seller? Were there other motivations, outside of profit, e.g. a collection, or completing a set? And what about overpriced hats? Let's remember 3rd gen (and 2nd gen before that), which were initially sold at extremely inflated prices. But these prices were accepted and were used every day to price other hats. So for example, in early 2014 one guy paid a DBD Brown Bomber (14 buds at the time) for a hat, and someone else paid 5 buds and a PE Killer's Kabuto for another hat (Buto was 7 at the time iirc). On paper, it looks like the DBD Bomber trade was the better deal and will be higher priced. But the reality is that the DBD Bomber continued to drop whereas the buto is stable (or even increased) and that trade contained quite a bit of pure (100 keys using early 2014 valuation). The smart and experienced trader would have preferred to buto trade, even if it was technically one bud lower. Yet, the hat priced off the bomber will be recorded higher than the buto sale. Also, there's now a huge problem with what the price of an unusual represents. According to backpack.tf itself, the price of an unusual represents the amount of keys the hat can realistically sell for. But we all know that hats are rarely sold for their BO in pure. If/when they are sold for pure, there's usually a discount. And before all the pro traders come in here and say "I always sell my hats for my asking price in pure", when's the last time you paid full price in pure for a hat? Right, none of us ever do. So how do you reconcile these two facts, i.e. this is the amount of keys you can reasonable expect to get, but you will not get that amount because nobody pays full price in pure? And how does all this affect unusual trading? It slows it down extremely. Because nobody wants to lose profit (or backpack value) so the backpack.tf price is constantly quoted in trading and used as the primary measure for determining a trade. The system would flow much better if there were no key prices. It would re-open the possibility for profit and trading up which at this point has become extremely difficult to do. A system without key prices rewards not only experienced traders but also those who try to really familiarize themselves with the system and seek guidance before they get into it. The current system is great for protecting novice traders, but in the end, it just slows trading down which is in nobody's best interest. IMO, you can't assign a key value to hats. You can put hats and effects into tiers, creating a X and Y axis to gauge a hat's value, but assigning key prices to hats is extremely inaccurate and misrepresentative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiNgSnAkE Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Backpack is an impediment to a free market. Have you ever read the guide to making a price suggestion? It is the creation of an obscure mind. Obscurity is a mechanism of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 But you can't deny bp.tf has some hold of the market which influences prices Journalism and media also influence wars. Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan are the prime examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cribbit Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The issue with bp.tf is when there are price suggestions for things which are just on market. Why do I need bp.tf to tell me the price for a standard strange weapon? The price suggestions here end up lagging the market. While there are many issues with the unusual price suggestions, it creates a better market than if there was no unusual price guideline at all. The issue it creates is when people are too dead set on only using bp.tf price for unusuals, and cannot use their own brain. There are certain hats where the item simply hasn't had a logical price update in forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasty Salamanders Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 And before all the pro traders come in here and say "I always sell my hats for my asking price in pure", when's the last time you paid full price in pure for a hat? Right, none of us ever do. This post was 4 days ago, I brought an Unusual with pure 5 days ago, so assuming I had read this post when it was new: "Yesterday". Also my other Unusual hat and taunt were both traded for in pure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litwick Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 This post was 4 days ago, I brought an Unusual with pure 5 days ago, so assuming I had read this post when it was new: "Yesterday". Also my other Unusual hat and taunt were both traded for in pure. Gren didn't say no one pays in pure, he's saying people don't pay FULL price in pure. For most hats you can haggle down the price a bit, and then sell for higher, if you're looking for profit. For example, if someone offered 60 keys pure on my Hermes, which I am asking 65 for, I would be pretty crazy to say no. The same concept applies to almost any other hat. Of course there will be some folks who pay full price, either because the price is reasonable or they actually do want the items, but most traders are looking for profit, in other words a good deal. They want discounts for paying in pure, and price haggling has even greater power when buyers in pure are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiteFish Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 It is breaking the economy in my opinion "omg lel economy brake! lol those guys are stoopid xdddd" -every hardcore price suggester ever I see a new suggestion already up, and everyone's saying it's good. It's already kind of bad that they raised to high, but the point is, if it keeps going higher, even a refined will be near worthless. It's slightly pointless to do. I'm okay with the price it's at now, but it has honestly no reason to raise higher than 20 ref. I don't see why they raised it so high anyway. I especially don't see why comments explaining shit like this in some suggestions gets me a warning, not exactly like I'm saying "Economy will fail because key raise = bad11!!1!?!1!" I'm actually giving a few reasons. It's just going to become unnecessarily high, but as long as it stays relatively near where it is it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonuka Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It is breaking the economy in my opinion "omg lel economy brake! lol those guys are stoopid xdddd" -every hardcore price suggester ever I see a new suggestion already up, and everyone's saying it's good. It's already kind of bad that they raised to high, but the point is, if it keeps going higher, even a refined will be near worthless. It's slightly pointless to do. I'm okay with the price it's at now, but it has honestly no reason to raise higher than 20 ref. I don't see why they raised it so high anyway. I especially don't see why comments explaining shit like this in some suggestions gets me a warning, not exactly like I'm saying "Economy will fail because key raise = bad11!!1!?!1!" I'm actually giving a few reasons. It's just going to become unnecessarily high, but as long as it stays relatively near where it is it's fine. Its not about the necessity of keys to rise. They just do it and its not backpack.tf who decides if keys rise or not. They just do it because of different market factors which mostly can not be affected by anyone of us. Backpack just tries to represent this value as best as possible but they dont set it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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