Mountain Ritos Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Very annoying topic in my opinion the police from what I can see reach for the gun first before taser and when they shoot they shoot to kill rather than simply stopping/warning shot for the victim. There have been plenty of cases where the victim who was either doing something not worth killing over "flees" and the cop shoots them a few times until they are dead. Cops are only allowed to use lethal force when they feel their lives are in danger...etc it's supposed to be for self defence and deterrence not to kill someone. Or many times it's a petty crime and the police would arrive and escalate whole situation which leads to unnecessary deaths. Not to mention the many convenient times where the body camera is "malfunctioned" while the cop has done something questionable which later he would get charged anyways. Eg. that case where a woman was sexual assaulted and she claimed that the cop tried to force his baton down her throat. Camera was "broken" and he was almost cleared until there was a video surveillance which popped up. Fake guns have the orange tip and it's required by law to have the orange tip, a few times cops have engaged shooting the victim multiple times and the "gun" was clearly a toy. However with that said gangs have been spraying their tips orange so it is up to the police to be able to differentiate a 5yr isnt going to have a gun. Many people also forget cops have a taser and are supposed to fire warning shot first. Tbh many situations the victim's death occurs because the cop escalated the situation which is probably because of their training to treat everything as if a bomb is about to go off. E.g that case where someone who was trying to suicide was he was suffering depression or something the cops come and kill him because the guy had a knife (which he was trying to kill himself with) and the cop thought it was an attack... They have to be made with them yes, not illegal to remove them. What the heck do you mean 'warning shot', cop sees a guy with a gun they're objectives are to protect the public and to arrest / subdue the threat. By the time said 'warning shot' is taken, the cop could be dead already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♠Derpeh♤ Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 They have to be made with them yes, not illegal to remove them. What the heck do you mean 'warning shot', cop sees a guy with a gun they're objectives are to protect the public and to arrest / subdue the threat. By the time said 'warning shot' is taken, the cop could be dead already. If their anyone is not in immediate and/or your life is not in danger cops are supposed to fire a warning shot as deference. I.e. you're not mean to just gun down a guy in cold blood there is a big difference between killing someone be cause you have to. The use of lethal force is mean to be a last resort. Obviously there are times where the use of a gun is justified however I'm highlighting the many cases which the use of a gun isn't yet the cop's response is. It isn't the cops fault but due to their training which always escalates the situation. Another example would be the teens at a pool party most were cooperating but it wasn't until one of the cops just suddenly charged in tackling people down and handcuffing everyone in side which lead to everyone running away causing pretty much a mess. Or the homeless man which didn't want to leave the park without packing up his posessions and the obvious response was to call in a swat team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Why should he ask if its a real gun? So when someone is robbing a bank Nobody is talking here of people when they are participating in a crime. In fact, if you cared to read, you might have spotted that I pointed out a better M.O. for when encountering a kid. At least in my country, cops are supposed to treat active bankrobbers a different way then a kid minding his own business. If your country is different, I'm GLAD I don't live there. Playing devil's advocate here, didn't someone remove the part of the fake gun that showed that it was a fake gun in the first place?the problem AFAIK is miscommunication: it went from "probbably fake gun" to the short-hand "possibly armed". while correct, that's the same phrase that's used for people who are probbably - but unconfirmed - armed By the time said 'warning shot' is taken, the cop could be dead already.German police fire warning shots. The amount of people that would open fire on police after they've drawn their gun & given a warningshot is extremely low - because it signals their guns are already out & ready to be used - you're just a trigger away from death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Cruise NUB Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Nobody is talking here of people when they are participating in a crime. In fact, if you cared to read, you might have spotted that I pointed out a better M.O. for when encountering a kid. At least in my country, cops are supposed to treat active bankrobbers a different way then a kid minding his own business. If your country is different, I'm GLAD I don't live there.the problem AFAIK is miscommunication: it went from "probbably fake gun" to the short-hand "possibly armed". while correct, that's the same phrase that's used for people who are probbably - but unconfirmed - armedGerman police fire warning shots.The amount of people that would open fire on police after they've drawn their gun & given a warningshot is extremely low - because it signals their guns are already out & ready to be used - you're just a trigger away from death.A kid pointing a gun(fake or not) is minding his own business?You would have to be crazy to take a gun(real or fake) in public and start pointing it around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 A kid pointing a gun(fake or not) is minding his own business? You would have to be crazy to take a gun(real or fake) in public and start pointing it around Me? Yes. But I'm not a 12 year old. There's something wrong with your country if, when the options are this kid is crazy - he's a direct danger to everyone around and should be shot this kid is crazy - he should be pointed out what he's doing is wrong, and measurements can be taken when it escalates this kid is playing cops assume the first over the last. Again, there's something called the escalation of force. It's not because someone might be a threat (a.k.a. possibly having a weapon), or become a thread (having a weapon, but not ready to shoot it) - that shooting them is the only viable option. Cops are supposed to be trained in handling such situations. Acting all scared 'oh noez, he haz a gun... I gotsta shoot cause I feer for mei life' - AIN'T it. ... or, again, at least in my country it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSpeed Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Me? Yes. But I'm not a 12 year old. There's something wrong with your country if, when the options are this kid is crazy - he's a direct danger to everyone around and should be shot this kid is crazy - he should be pointed out what he's doing is wrong, and measurements can be taken when it escalates this kid is playing cops assume the first over the last. Again, there's something called the escalation of force. It's not because someone might be a threat (a.k.a. possibly having a weapon), or become a thread (having a weapon, but not ready to shoot it) - that shooting them is the only viable option. Cops are supposed to be trained in handling such situations. Acting all scared 'oh noez, he haz a gun... I gotsta shoot cause I feer for mei life' - AIN'T it. ... or, again, at least in my country it isn't. I'd also like to point out that while cops do have firearms for when the situation reaches that point they also have several non-lethal ways of dealing with a situation namely things like nightsticks and tasers. If I was a cop and I genuinely felt like this kid was a threat I would sooner use the taser to incapacitate but not kill than just driving up and firing a lethal shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0night Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 sir, you can turn off your caps tell me, you're a cop, you see a guy with a gun, aiming at you or not, what would you do? bringing a fake sword to a convention is a stupid idea, you really think that everyone knows whether it's fake or not instantly? open carry laws, not my area of expertise, but you cant walk around walmart holding a rifle casually without no one calling 911 yes you absolutely can, so long as you're white. it was not 'a large rifle', he was very obviously a minor, police arrest serial killers and other incredibly dangerous (white) people all the time without shooting at everyone who has a weapon. it's so blatant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I totally forgot about tazers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Cruise NUB Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 yes you absolutely can, so long as you're white. it was not 'a large rifle', he was very obviously a minor, police arrest serial killers and other incredibly dangerous (white) people all the time without shooting at everyone who has a weapon. it's so blatant.Maybe they shouldn't resist arrestCough* cough* michael brown, treyvon martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Mandatory body cameras for all police. Make cops carry them and record at all times, and have them be severely punished for failing to have them on or for mysteriously "losing" recordings. I've started using action cameras to record shit whenever I go out. Just in case. I've already caught tons of rude and wreckless driving incidents, and you never know when you might have to defend yourself in court against some asshole on the road or even an abusive police officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Maybe they shouldn't resist arrest Now that's a poor excuse if I ever saw it. Don't try to move the goalpost. We got the tape: the kid was shot before he could even think about attempting to reisit arrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Cruise NUB Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Now that's a poor excuse if I ever saw it. Don't try to move the goalpost. We got the tape: the kid was shot before he could even think about attempting to reisit arrest.Pulling the weapon out and aiming it when the officer told him to put his hands up could easily be seen as resisting arrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0night Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Maybe they shouldn't resist arrest Cough* cough* michael brown, treyvon martin resisting arrest aka running away and being shot in the street (Michael Brown) or being shot by a vigilante racist (i.e. not a cop and not someone who could even attempt a legitimate 'arrest') who was told not to pursue the 'suspect' (aka a black kid in a hoodie) (Trayvon Martin) please don't base your statements on complete fabrications when talking about these murders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0night Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Pulling the weapon out and aiming it when the officer told him to put his hands up could easily be seen as resisting arrest does this happen in the video? no it does not. more complete shite from you. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police show me him 'aiming' the weapon. they are fucking 5 feet from him, they can see exactly what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0night Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/moms-versus-assault-weapons-in-target#.vwaqjjB3o so people can carry assault weapons in shops in america, but if a kid has a plastic toy gun he can get shot within 2 seconds of police seeing him and it's his own fault. if a black guy brings a fucking cosplay item to a convention he's an idiot and deserved to be shot in the back by cops, but white men walk around target with AR-15s and they're simply demonstrating in favour of their constitutional rights. holy fuck you guys will say any old shite to ignore the racism that is blatant in your law enforcement and apparently also in your general outlook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtneyWendysCommercials Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Police officers are trained to protect themselves, and protect bystanders. If a suspect is acting shady, and there is reason to believe danger could ensue from the suspect's actions (i.e. reaching into a glove box, reaching into a pocket, running toward a civilian) the officer has to decide whether to eliminate the possible threat, or take the risk of an innocent person (including the officer himself/herself) getting severely injured or killed. Not saying that all police officers follow this rule, nor am i saying that some officers aren't unjust or racist. Each case is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Cruise NUB Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 does this happen in the video? no it does not. more complete shite from you. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police show me him 'aiming' the weapon. they are fucking 5 feet from him, they can see exactly what is going on. "The officers ordered him to drop the weapon and put his hands up" "And the young pan pulled his weapon out and the officer shot" What the caller said "He's pulling it out of his pants and pointing it at people Also in the video they said he was a "black male, about 20" they didnt even know it was a kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Cruise NUB Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 resisting arrest aka running away and being shot in the street (Michael Brown) or being shot by a vigilante racist (i.e. not a cop and not someone who could even attempt a legitimate 'arrest') who was told not to pursue the 'suspect' (aka a black kid in a hoodie) (Trayvon Martin) please don't base your statements on complete fabrications when talking about these murders. I was siding with the officers point of view. Not fabricating at all "holy fuck you guys will say any old shite to ignore the racism that is blatant in your law enforcement and apparently also in your general outlook" "does this happen in the video? no it does not. more complete shite from you.I will miss seeing your wonderful posts coolrocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperqube Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Pulling the weapon out and aiming it when the officer told him to put his hands up could easily be seen as resisting arrest "Pulling the weapon out and aiming it"??? Here's the problem Jack: he was carrying a toy gun. Are you really going to try and argue that Tamir pulled a gun & aimed it at the officers? Opposite to, for example, pull out a gun to drop it, as the officers demanded of him? ... good luck with that. Also in the video they said he was a "black male, about 20" they didnt even know it was a kid Funny how you consider that a positve thing. That's how long they ware on the scene - how well they observed the situation: they couldn't tell a 12 year old from a 20 year old. I was siding with the officers point of view. Not fabricating at all And I'm not even saying it has to be the fault of the officers: Cops are supposed to be trained in handling such situations. Acting all scared 'oh noez, he haz a gun... I gotsta shoot cause I feer for mei life' - AIN'T it. ... or, again, at least in my country it isn't. Clearly these officers had the wrong reaction. One should search were the problem lies. and solve that problem. If for instance the problem is that police training is not adequate - then fix it. Perhaps all fake guns (incl. BB guns) should be marked with typical orange marking - so that cops can see the difference. But putting ones head in the sand doesn't fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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