Do you think more people are hurt or helped by Religion?

[Black Dynamite]

Seems to me more people are getting hurt or worse because of religion

 

especially one specifically that's been in the news lately but not for any good

 

reasons. I'll give you a hint it starts with an I it should be very easy to understand

 

which religion I'm referring to.

[Prince Lowell]

Yay! You learned to type somewhat normally! Congrats!!

Anyway.

I think some people's applying of their view of religion does hurt, but one's own view is a healing thing

[Langweenee]

Religion is a place where people turn to when they have nothing left because "God" or whatever might be able to save them. It's good for those people so they see a purpose in life. Otherwise I thinks it's just a way for humans trying to explain why everything is the way it is.

[Heated Bread]

Unwavering belief in unsupported claims in spite of evidence to the contrary of those unsupported claims?  Blind obedience to real and/or imagined authority figures?  Sign me up!

 

This is not sounding like a helpful thing to me.  In fact it is sounding like it is a quite damaging thing which is antithetical to human progress.  If one wishes to have a view of reality that is as accurate as possible, religion sounds like a very nasty impediment to that goal.

 

I'd rather be open to evidence.  If I can be shown to be wrong about something, I'd want to have someone do it so that I can change my views.  Religion does not tolerate this behavior because it cannot.  It requires its followers to be rigid, dogmatic, and unchanging in their beliefs.  That is very harmful.

[scout608]

its alright unless taken to extremes, in which case it is dangerous

[Keroro1454]

Yay! You learned to type somewhat normally! Congrats!!

^This

 

Unwavering belief in unsupported claims in spite of evidence to the contrary of those unsupported claims?  Blind obedience to real and/or imagined authority figures?  Sign me up!

 

This is not sounding like a helpful thing to me.  In fact it is sounding like it is a quite damaging thing which is antithetical to human progress. 

 

I think its important to draw a line here. Not every Christian is a psycho gay-hating misogynist, not every Muslim is a terrorist, not every Jew wants Palestine a nuclear wasteland. In most cases, religion provides a way for someone to find peace when troubled, and basically just help them evolve as humans.

 

While religion has not always been beneficial to the scientific progress of humans, I think that it has helped progress philosophic means of humans. Not to mention it stopped truly impeding scientific advancement a while ago.

 

The idea of blind obedience really depends on what you're referring to. 99% of Christians nowadays would not blindly follow the Pope on some Holy Crusade, and last I checked Jesus was pretty against anything, well, bad. And from what I've read the homophobia argument is bullshit. He's accepting of everyone, keeps saying that, says he came to make the Old Covenant not "neccesary"-effectively, we don't have to follow the archaic laws of old. For other religions, its tough to say. I can't speak on their behalf, I'm speaking really only for Christianity here.

 

I'd also like to point to the worldwide good that religion has created, especially in terms of Christianity. Whether it was the heroic efforts of medieval monks to preserve texts of all sorts (Including scientific), to the many great works done in the spirit of Christ, it's pretty clear that religion has inspired a great deal of good in humanity. And yes, I know not all charities are religious, but I'd guess a great deal are.

 

In short, I believe that religion is inherently not a bad thing. People can manipulate it for evil, but at its core it strives to improve humans through its urges to good works, charity, and a moral human. My personal beliefs in Christianity's validity (I'm Catholic, I'm sure you've guessed that already) aside, religion is good.

[Tobiased]

The pope literally sits on thousands of dollars everyday. 

[HarryG]

ISISism?

[Zapperzz]

I don't take part in any religion personally, but I don't believe religion hurts people.  Sure there have been some wars and conflict over religion throughout history, but don't you think that would have occurred anyway?  Humans are not perfect and there will always be some conflict in the world.  Basically just don't blame it on religion.

 

Not all Islamists are terrorists, I think some naturally evil people take part in Islamic extremists as an excuse to show their evil side.  Again, NOT ALL ISLAM / MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS.  I'm not muslim /Islam, but I definitely do believe that not all of them are terrorists, in fact, a major majority of them are not.

[Heated Bread]

^This

 

 

I think its important to draw a line here. Not every Christian is a psycho gay-hating misogynist, not every Muslim is a terrorist, not every Jew wants Palestine a nuclear wasteland. In most cases, religion provides a way for someone to find peace when troubled, and basically just help them evolve as humans.

 

While religion has not always been beneficial to the scientific progress of humans, I think that it has helped progress philosophic means of humans. Not to mention it stopped truly impeding scientific advancement a while ago.

 

The idea of blind obedience really depends on what you're referring to. 99% of Christians nowadays would not blindly follow the Pope on some Holy Crusade, and last I checked Jesus was pretty against anything, well, bad. And from what I've read the homophobia argument is bullshit. He's accepting of everyone, keeps saying that, says he came to make the Old Covenant not "neccesary"-effectively, we don't have to follow the archaic laws of old. For other religions, its tough to say. I can't speak on their behalf, I'm speaking really only for Christianity here.

 

I'd also like to point to the worldwide good that religion has created, especially in terms of Christianity. Whether it was the heroic efforts of medieval monks to preserve texts of all sorts (Including scientific), to the many great works done in the spirit of Christ, it's pretty clear that religion has inspired a great deal of good in humanity. And yes, I know not all charities are religious, but I'd guess a great deal are.

 

In short, I believe that religion is inherently not a bad thing. People can manipulate it for evil, but at its core it strives to improve humans through its urges to good works, charity, and a moral human. My personal beliefs in Christianity's validity (I'm Catholic, I'm sure you've guessed that already) aside, religion is good.

 

You are required to maintain your belief in someone who cannot be shown to have actually existed, let alone be shown to be the divine being that he is claimed to have been.  You do this because you were told to and because other people around you are doing it too, so it seems normal to you.  You do not do it because there is any reliable and credible evidence to demonstrate that it's actually true, since there is none.  That's not progress.  That's stagnation.  Progress happens when people are willing to open themselves to the evidence of reality.  It doesn't come from clinging to unsubstantiated dogma for which there is no evidential basis.

 

You say religion doesn't impede scientific progress anymore?  What about people who are actively trying to get creationism taught in schools?  What about people who have successfully thrown out sex education in favor of teaching abstinence only, which has caused a sharp rise in teen pregnancy?  What about the christian moral crusade against stem cell research that's been going on for years and that's caused the US to fall behind the rest of the world in that area?  FFS, the school textbooks in texas have a battle being fought over them by right-wing christian groups and have already been influenced by them for many years.  Texas textbooks get used in many other states, including california where I went to school.

 

Religion can and does still impede progress and promotes ignorance.

 

It IS inherently bad.  This is because it requires belief without any adequate reasonable justification, also known as faith.  That's what makes it bad.  It promotes irrationality.  Now if you've got a religion without faith, then this obviously wouldn't apply.

[ŴƬЯ-A Vakume Kleener]

I am a Christian, and I think being a Christian has benefited me very well and for a while I didn't really buy it all but I was started to be given signs and at this point I have had enough proof of God through experiences, and I can respect other people's views but stop hating on religious people. Just because you're an ignorant twat doesn't mean you have to tell the world through your close minded statements and judgments.

[Heated Bread]

I am a Christian, and I think being a Christian has benefited me very well and for a while I didn't really buy it all but I was started to be given signs and at this point I have had enough proof of God through experiences, and I can respect other people's views but stop hating on religious people. Just because you're an ignorant twat doesn't mean you have to tell the world through your close minded statements and judgments.

 

If it could be proven to me that god existed, I would believe it.  I was a christian most of my life, and I realized that I had no real reason to believe in god.  All I'm saying is that faith is irrational.  That's all I've ever needed to know about religion from that point forward.  It's a pretty simple truth.  Faith can also put illusions in your mind, such as "I know god exists because I had this feeling one time", or "I know god exists because I can see signs and coincidences everywhere".  It's called confirmation bias.  And getting uplifting feelings is pretty well explained phenomenon as well and happens with or without religion.  It's even reproducible.

 

At the end of the day, I care about what can actually be demonstrated.  There's no reason to accept things on faith.  To me, faith is just a malfunction of the human mind; a flaw that needs to be corrected for.

[ŴƬЯ-A Vakume Kleener]

>I realized that I had no real reason to believe in god.  

>There's no reason to accept things on faith.  To me, faith is just a malfunction of the human mind; a flaw that needs to be corrected for.

Your problems. you can't be close minded. Anyway, I'm not forcing religion on anyone. I am just stating my personal experiences. You also can't PROVE God. You need to find him yourself. I am happy in my beliefs but everyone can believe what they want

even tho ur rong lul

 

[Heated Bread]

Your problems. you can't be close minded. Anyway, I'm not forcing religion on anyone. I am just stating my personal experiences. You also can't PROVE God. You need to find him yourself. I am happy in my beliefs but everyone can believe what they want

even tho ur rong lul

 

 

It's not a problem to recognize that faith is a non-sequitur.  It's liberating to realize the truth.  I now have a freedom that the faithful lack, either by their own choice or by their blindness to the truth about faith.

 

It's not wrong as you assert.  It's evident just by looking at the meaning of the word (faith is literally defined as belief that is not based on proof).  Logical conclusions have logically consistent steps, whereas faith just leaps straight to assuming an arbitrary conclusion that doesn't logically follow from anything.

[Ravenholmzombies]

I stand by the age old adage: "Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down childrens throats."
Religion CAN be good, in that life is meaningless for some people without feeling like when you die you'll end up somewhere better (which I don't personally believe in, but to each their own), but when it's used as a means to invoke social change (ie. religious extremism such as ISIS or radical islam in general) that's when there's real issues. 

But giving it any great deal of thought, Religion basically caused the Dark Ages, and the seperation of church and state was really only fifty years ago in some parts of the western world. People still get immolated, stoned, crucified, tortured and all matter of other cruelties inflicted upon them on account of religion. It's a powerful tool, and far too easily abused when on an institutional level. 

[Ravenholmzombies]

It's not a problem to recognize that faith is a non-sequitur.  It's liberating to realize the truth.  I now have a freedom that the faithful lack, either by their own choice or by their blindness to the truth about faith.

 

It's not wrong as you assert.  It's evident just by looking at the meaning of the word (faith is literally defined as belief that is not based on proof).  Logical conclusions have logically consistent steps, whereas faith just leaps straight to assuming an arbitrary conclusion that doesn't logically follow from anything.

There is something liberating about being able to create your own meaning, and not accepting a pre-concieved one that most religions claim to offer.

[Heated Bread]

There is something liberating about being able to create your own meaning, and not accepting a pre-concieved one that most religions claim to offer.

 

It's not my own meaning.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith

 

2. belief that is not based on proof

 

If you think this is not the faith that religion requires, show me a religion that can be proven to be correct.  I will become a convert.

 

edit: oh I see what you mean.  You're talking about cobbling together your own religion from bits and pieces of stuff.

 

Eh, I suppose that's less harmful than organized religion, but I'd still prefer that people base their beliefs on the evidence of reality rather than what they simply want to believe.  To me what you're proposing sounds like wishful thinking.

 

edit again: dude, i'm being a derp.  You're merely talking about assigning your own meaning to life, free of the influence of religion, aren't you?

 

Whoops!  My mistake.

[A Cyan Stone in Mustard]

Crusades, wars, opression, etc. have sometimes been based purely off religion as opposed to land, resources, or other causes for feuds.

 

A majority of the world believes in religion. Christianity makes up 31.50%, Islam makes up 23.20%, Hinduism makes up 13.8%, Buddhism makes up 6.77%, other religions make up 11.63%. That's 86.9% of the world's 7,307,000,000 people, so 6,349,783,000 people follow a religion.

 

Religion is just something people follow, it's a myth that may or may not be true to explain why the human race exists. To be honest, the best religion does is give food out to the poor and bring people together, the rest is just what people want to believe. For example, a family may pray to God to help find their dog; they find their dog and they thank their religion for giving it back to them, but they don't really even know if the God they pray to exists, so it may as well be by complete chance or coincidence. Religion hasn't saved anyone, the Crusades, Holocaust, all-in-all genocide have happened due to religion.

 

There's nothing wrong with religion; it's just when people interpret it in a bad way and take it too far where it ends up hurting people, with occurs much more often than when it helps legitimately helps people. We'd be fine without religion, nothing bad would occur, it would just stop more arguments.

[CUD]

Religion is organised ignorance. It spreads hatred and has caused and continues to cause many deaths. There definitely isn't enough good to outweigh all the pain, suffering and lies that religion has brought upon our world. The world truly would be a better place without religion but its followers continue to hold us all back.

[Chbzsk]

I like to believe a very large majority of people who do bad things in the name of religion would do them anyway if religion didn't exist. They would just use something else to brainwash each other :/

[Tats]

I think religions can help and hurt, depends on the religion itself, and on its followers.

 

Many persons blame religions for what they did bad, but generally the same persons won't notice what religions did help for.

 

Edit : Dark Ages ?

 

 

Notre-Dame du Port à Clermont Ferrand (11th century)

 

 

[Donnie Azoff]

Personally I don't like religion and think it's often very harmful: I'm not even going to argue that it's pretty much a nonsensical belief in the impossible, filled with barbaric, outdated views on pretty much all aspects of life. That's probably been addressed by someone here already. 

 

I'm just going to talk about how religion has affected me, even when my family is part of a rather peaceful section of faith. My mother's side belongs to the Mennonites, who are pretty much a more liberal version of the Amish. (Oversimplifying, as is sometimes my way. But I hope you get the point.) They use electricity, reap the benefits of motorized vehicles, and aren't kept from the comfort of a good TV show. But they are usually pretty conservative in their religious beliefs. The usual moderate republican, anti gay, pro war ideals can often apply here. Not to all, but to many. 

 

The main problem I see with the faith my family is a part of, is that it brings with it some of the negative aspects of being religious, while overstating a few of the positive. One of the few good things I see about religion is that it often brings people together to promote positive change within a community. For example, Mennonites often organize and run auctions, fundraisers, and fairs to raise money for the needy. But I ask you: couldn't we all be doing that if we got over religion and the discrimination it brings? Don't tell me that I can't be a good person if I don't have a religion. 

 

This brings me to one of my main problems: Mennonites, even in the act of helping others, can feel a certain superiority over others. They're just doing God's work, so that when the day of judgement comes they can go to heaven. That should never be why you help someone, and I think for many it's the only reason. 

 

Second problem: Mennonites are infamous for their work as missionaries. This pretty much means going across the world to find people who likely already have a faith (or purposeful lack of one) and trying to get them to convert. This still happens, and quite frankly it sickens me. Granted, the focus has shifted: it's now seemingly more about helping people in struggling situations and bringing your religion with you on your long journey to foreign parts. Bleh. 

 

Personally, I think I can be just as effective helping the world without being religious. I plan to become an MD, and never ever have a religion. When I die, I'll know that I did good in the world, without having a strange ulterior motive (heaven).

 

TL;DR- Even seemingly harmless faith can carry with it unneeded attributes. Just be a good person and the world will thank you.

[Keroro1454]

Personally I don't like religion and think it's often very harmful: I'm not even going to argue that it's pretty much a nonsensical belief in the impossible, filled with barbaric, outdated views on pretty much all aspects of life. That's probably been addressed by someone here already. 

Barbaric? What religion are you referring to specifically? Because, correct me if I'm wrong, short of perhaps Satanism or some weird polytheistic thing (I've heard they're resurrecting that in Iceland, seems cool) no religion practices anything that could be considered barbaric. (So help me God if someone says circumcision) And I'm pretty sure "Love thy enemy" and "Treat each other as I have treated you" are pretty universal concepts? Again, speaking only for Catholicism. If someone like Cyan wants to jump in and help me out, go right ahead.

 

The usual moderate republican, anti gay, pro war ideals can often apply here.

But I ask you: couldn't we all be doing that if we got over religion and the discrimination it brings? Don't tell me that I can't be a good person if I don't have a religion. 

Okay, I think lumping all Republicans in there is kinda an issue of its own right. Does this religion directly state all the "typical" assertions of the Republican party? Does anything God say in your religion directly relate to homophobic behavior? Because if not, I think you hit an excellent point, just from the wrong angle. I mentioned this earlier, but religion inherently strives for goodness, but can be manipulated for cruel  intentions- cue homophobia (That's the only discrimination I could think of atm). And no one here is claiming that to be a good person you have to have religion- in fact my previous response states quite the opposite. I feel that in many ways religion inspires and encourages (Or in some ways kinda forces) us to be better people to each other. In the case of Christianity, this is in order to follow the ideals of social justice, a concept laid out as far back as Christ himself.

 

Second problem: Mennonites are infamous for their work as missionaries. This pretty much means going across the world to find people who likely already have a faith (or purposeful lack of one) and trying to get them to convert. This still happens, and quite frankly it sickens me. Granted, the focus has shifted: it's now seemingly more about helping people in struggling situations and bringing your religion with you on your long journey to foreign parts. Bleh. 

What in particular is so disgusting to the idea of missionary work? To me, the concept is as simple as this: These people truly believe they are worshipping the "right" God, so to speak. They want to share this knowledge and likely the subsequent joy that this brings them to everyone they can. If the people they come to see this new religion and think "Huh, this thing seems pretty neat!" then they convert. If not, then they don't. All the while the missionary is trying to subsequently live out his duty to social justice and likely helping these people in a multitude of manners, not just (from the missionaries point of view) spiritually. What appears horrible in that situation.

 

Personally, I think I can be just as effective helping the world without being religious. I plan to become an MD, and never ever have a religion. When I die, I'll know that I did good in the world, without having a strange ulterior motive (heaven).

You understand that at least from the Christian religion, this "ulterior motive" is bullshit? You are literally not supposed to do good so you can get to heaven. You are supposed to do good because it is your responsibility- heaven is the bonus, but it is repeatedly emphasized throughout the Gospels that heaven should not be your real motive.

[Heated Bread]

Mennonites are infamous for their work as missionaries. This pretty much means going across the world to find people who likely already have a faith (or purposeful lack of one) and trying to get them to convert.

 

Honestly, the only reason I've even heard of Mennonites is because of that Weird Al Yankovic song 'Amish Paradise', and I just assumed 'Mennonite' was essentially synonymous with the term 'Amish' based on the way it was used in the song.  I didn't even know there was a difference, much less that they're supposed to be well known for their missionary work.  Where I come from, it's Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who are infamous for this, and that's only because they do so much door-to-door solicitation, to the point that people often can't make them stop coming to bother them.  They're like the telemarketers of missionaries in the sense that everyone is super annoyed by their unceasing solicitation.

 

Anyway, thank you for sharing.

[Donnie Azoff]

Barbaric? What religion are you referring to specifically? Because, correct me if I'm wrong, short of perhaps Satanism or some weird polytheistic thing (I've heard they're resurrecting that in Iceland, seems cool) no religion practices anything that could be considered barbaric. (So help me God if someone says circumcision) And I'm pretty sure "Love thy enemy" and "Treat each other as I have treated you" are pretty universal concepts? Again, speaking only for Catholicism. If someone like Cyan wants to jump in and help me out, go right ahead.

 

Okay, I think lumping all Republicans in there is kinda an issue of its own right. Does this religion directly state all the "typical" assertions of the Republican party? Does anything God say in your religion directly relate to homophobic behavior? Because if not, I think you hit an excellent point, just from the wrong angle. I mentioned this earlier, but religion inherently strives for goodness, but can be manipulated for cruel  intentions- cue homophobia (That's the only discrimination I could think of atm). And no one here is claiming that to be a good person you have to have religion- in fact my previous response states quite the opposite. I feel that in many ways religion inspires and encourages (Or in some ways kinda forces) us to be better people to each other. In the case of Christianity, this is in order to follow the ideals of social justice, a concept laid out as far back as Christ himself.

 

What in particular is so disgusting to the idea of missionary work? To me, the concept is as simple as this: These people truly believe they are worshipping the "right" God, so to speak. They want to share this knowledge and likely the subsequent joy that this brings them to everyone they can. If the people they come to see this new religion and think "Huh, this thing seems pretty neat!" then they convert. If not, then they don't. All the while the missionary is trying to subsequently live out his duty to social justice and likely helping these people in a multitude of manners, not just (from the missionaries point of view) spiritually. What appears horrible in that situation.

 

You understand that at least from the Christian religion, this "ulterior motive" is bullshit? You are literally not supposed to do good so you can get to heaven. You are supposed to do good because it is your responsibility- heaven is the bonus, but it is repeatedly emphasized throughout the Gospels that heaven should not be your real motive.

 I was mainly referring to Christianity and more specifically the old testament in my post. The OT is filled with things that we would consider cruel in modern life, like laws about men having to be circumcised and kids being stoned to death for being rebellious. Those are only a few of the "barbaric" things I was referring to. 

 

Republicans have had conservative beliefs for a long time, and they often cite the bible as to why they think this way. I don't really want to argue about politics, I justed said that Mennonites are often Republicans. And I'm sure no one has said that I can't be a good person without being religious, I just addressed that point because it's what so many religious people seem to think in general. 

 

I just don't like the idea of forcing your religion upon others. Just because you think it might be the right thing to do, and your duty in the world, doesn't really excuse it. The point of missionary work seems to be more about unnecessary conversion then about helping people. I'm just talking from my experience, since my grandmother has a lot of missionary history on her side of the family. 

 

I'm sure you're not supposed to, but I'm also sure that a lot of people only do any kind of service because they think it'll end up getting them to heaven. I don't know, maybe even more people are doing work in the world for the right reasons then people doing work for the wrong reasons. But it still bothers me no matter what.