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♠Derpeh♤

[Guide] Making good suggestions

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♠Derpeh♤

This following guide is largely based on the pricing for standard items in tf2 and will hopefully enlighten new contributors as well as knowledgeable contributors in improving your suggestions.

 

Some basic concepts to understand

✖         Upvotes =/= Accepted price

Upvotes doesn't necessarily mean it is the correct price. Some votes will occur based upon what prices traders want and not the proof presented. The mods on bp.tf have the final say after looking at the proof given, along with comments and counterproof in the suggestion.

An example: If you open a suggestion with no proof lowering keys, upvotes will still occur since users want keys to be cheaper.

✖        Selling =/= Sold

What people are selling for does not mean others are willing to buy for that price. Buyouts (B/o) won’t matter if the seller didn’t get what they asked for.

An example: Trades selling a weapon for a key each should not be factored into the new price if no trades have occurred.

✖       Quick buyers

These are traders advertising to buy an item(s) below the market price, only to later resell it at the market price. This does not constitute proof except under certain circumstances, which will be explained later. Most of the time they will only be approached by traders which have a desire for some quick metal and do not mind the lower price.

✖      Quick sellers

This when traders who are in need of quick currency sell their item below the market price to attract buyers faster. Generally bought quickly and should not be considered proof unless [in rare cases] there is an excessive amount of people quickselling.

✖        Outdated proof

Links to trades 1 year ago do not reflect current market prices. Links to trades which are more recent than the previously accepted suggestion and no older than 1 week is usually considered up to date. There are many exceptions to this such as collectors’ items, expensive items (such as s.Festives) and vintages which have infrequent sales.

✖        Scrap.tf

Scrap.tf or any automated service does not constitute to valid proof as people from the need of quick metal do not mind the lower price and pay for the convenience.

 

What is valid proof?

✓         Successful/sold trades: These are trades which were successful in selling their item for the advertised price and should always be included in a suggestion. It shows the prices which traders are willing to buy at and to sell at.

How to search for closed/sold trades:

Currently Outpost doesn't allow for the searching of closed trades. Bookmarking links which you are tracking and returning to them later can be a good way of finding solds.

o Trade.tf's all listing's search feature. Avoid using the good deal's section in searching for sold proof. (Refer to improving suggestions for more info)

Looking at the previously accepted suggestion the unsolds then may be now sold. Be aware of outdated proof which do not reflect current prices.

Following histories of items. Although this is more leaning towards rare/collectable items which is beyond the scope of this guide, you can track completed item sales by looking up closed trades of the previous owners.

✓         Unsolds: Links to unsolds show that demand of a certain item has gone down and users are unwilling to pay its current price. This should not be used as the only proof to decrease the price of an item, and must be used in conjunction with other forms of proof.

Reasons for this is as follows:

o A trade may be open for weeks, but just recently changed their listed price.

o Outpost has donators status which receive regular,automatic bumps, overshadowing non-donators

o Some items may have 20 pages of trades and there will be obvious unsolds regardless.

o Users which are rarely online, giving the illusion that it is unsold.

✓         Sellers below current price : Links to many traders which are selling below the current price shows that many are willing to sell below the price and that the current price sales are slow or unsuccessful. Be careful in using quick sellers as proof to lower the price of an item.

✓         Accepted offers: Offers of items which are accepted can be a good way of both providing proof as well as determining price. Do not use rejected offers as proof since many trades can be receiving an excessive amount of lowballs; prices which are derived from this are clearly incorrect.

·         Quick buyers: This is uncommon and only ever happens when bp.tf is outdated. These should be generally ignored as valid proof. When there are plenty of unsolds at the current price and quick buyers are overly successful it may be used as proof to lower the price, as it shows that traders are willing to sell for lower prices.

 

Setting the price range:

Please refer to the valid proof section to help you.

Removing lower end of range: You must show that the current lower end is brought quickly and show many successful sales at the higher range. Some successful trades above the current price range can help

Removing higher end of range: If the number of successful sales at the higher end is low or infrequent, then it shouldn't be included in the range. You must show unsolds at the higher end and that there is an abundance of sellers at the lower range.

Increase: To increase the price you must show that the current price is bought quickly and that there are sales above the current price. This means many successful sold trades, which are successful in selling higher than the current range.

Decrease: You will need to show that there are unsolds at the current range and enough sellers below the current for them to be included. Your proof cannot be based entirely on unsolds (refer to valid proof section)

 

Notes to improve your suggestions

✓         Organize your proof: Nothing is worse than seeing proof which are messy and unlabeled. Simply separating and labeling your solds, unsolds, offers and sellers saves others the trouble of deciphering your suggestion. You will get more upvotes as users can see your proof more clearly. An example of a organised suggestion herehttp://goo.gl/Bl3Smq

✓       Do not use trade.tf’s good deal search: “Using trade.tf's good deals section as a tool to gather proof tends to put a spotlight on quicksales while upper end sales are left invisible, creating the illusion that an item is 'only selling' at lower range or lower†--Distinctively Vincent

✓         The price is not what you know but what you can prove: Many suggesters create a price range a price range based on what they think it should be with inadequate proof. It doesn’t matter what you think the price is if you cannot show it.

✖        Do not copy and paste other people’s proof without consent: This is someone elses hard work and effort. Do not cut and paste without asking beforehand.

 

Why was your suggestion closed?

✖        Bad proof/no proof (please refer to what is valid proof above)

✖        Not enough proof

You need an adequate amount of proof to change it’s price; only having a few links as proof does not represent the current market prices. With many popular items, where there care be pages of trades, a larger amount of proof is required to represent the market.

✖        Swearing/troll/proofless/verbal abuse to another user

Go figure. Even if you have provided good proof and have the correct price range your suggestion may still be closed if you are trying to spark an argument midst of your suggestion. Leaving your proof open for someone else to copy/paste.

An example of a troll here: http://goo.gl/BfmL8H

✖        It was priced based on opinion.

If suggestions like this were approved scraps would be worth buds and every person would make a suggestion to increase their bp value. Enough said. Just don’t do it.

An example of an opinion based suggestion here: http://goo.gl/0bXBul 

·    Counter proof

These are proof provided by other users on bp.tf who disagree with some aspect of your suggestion. They are normally links which disprove your suggestion. E.g. if you are removing a price from the range they may provide links on trades which have sold at that range.

 

 

Normally when closing a suggestion an admin leaves a comment regarding why the suggestion was closed. If you have followed through everything correctly and believe that your suggestion was closed in error you can ask the admin for more information regarding the outcome via the forums. More information here http://goo.gl/IhCTJ6

 

How to make a good unusual suggestion: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6033-new-unusual-price-suggestion-guide-the-cheat-sheet/

 
 
 
 
Thanks goes to the all the mods and KMDee for helping me out with this guide, especially to Cleverpun who had to put up with my horrible grammar.

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♠Derpeh♤

Hopefully i didnt miss anything, Please tell me if i did or if anything is incorrect.

 

The vid is comming along, got a few setbacks due to voicing and yeah...

 

Edit: 6/9/13 no idea whats happening nao

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Baloo

The word is proof, not proofs. You do not have one proof over here and one proof over there and together they are your proofs. Its simply "proof" as it is the collective of all your evidence.

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♠Derpeh♤

The word is proof, not proofs. You do not have one proof over here and one proof over there and together that is your proofs. Its simply "proof" as it is the collective of all your evidence.

edited :)

 

Ty, if you find any more problems plese voice! shall change/add fast :)

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♠Derpeh♤

I was told i should talk about overpay for items...etc but since there is no standardized way to calculate overpay unlike unusual items that it would be best to cut it out avoid confusion :S

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Wesley

✖        It was priced based on opinion.

If suggestions like this were approved scraps would be worth buds and every person would make a suggestion to increase their bp value. Enough said. Just don’t do it.

An example of an opinion based suggestion here 

 

you forgot a link.

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polar

Under "what is valid proof" I would list actual sales first with a bit more on how to find completed sales.

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♠Derpeh♤

you forgot a link.

Added. Some readon hyperlinking didnt work ):

 

Under "what is valid proof" I would list actual sales first with a bit more on how to find completed sales.

Good point. Ive changed it, think the only way atm to find closed trades to either bookmark trades or to use trade.tf's search features? If there are any more ways please enlighten :)

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polar

 If there are any more ways please enlighten  :)

There are quite a few ways depending on the situation. These alternative ways are useful for rarer items including unusuals, vintages, rare uncrafts, but really work on any item.

(1) previous suggestions - I often look at unsolds that have now sold from a suggestion passed in the last week for people getting trigger happy with dropping prices. But you can also use them to track rare items when there aren't many on outpost.

(2) tf2tp - tracks sales up to 2 weeks. I will look up the completed sale and find the sellers posts on outpost.

(3) follow item histories on outpost - much like people track unusuals, you can track completed item sales by looking up closed trades of previous owners.

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♠Derpeh♤

There are quite a few ways depending on the situation. These alternative ways are useful for rarer items including unusuals, vintages, rare uncrafts, but really work on any item.

 

Originally i had written down a few similar methods but the guide did get a bit too long and most were for more finding collectors/rare/unusual sales and not normal items so i elected to not write it in. Reading your comments and a few talks with some people who have added me to ask Qs. Ill add a small section in searching for sold proof.

 

Also adding that scrap.tf is not a valid source of proof seeing more than normal amount of people quoting scap.tf prices lately :L

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Xiemens

Hello, can you help? In the future when i want to make the price of some item go up, people ask for trades sold for that amount of metal/keys. How do i see trades sold at that amount of metal/keys?

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♠Derpeh♤

Hello, can you help? In the future when i want to make the price of some item go up, people ask for trades sold for that amount of metal/keys. How do i see trades sold at that amount of metal/keys?

I believe i have covered how to find sold trades in the "what is valid proof" section under successful/sold trades.

For unusuals (should refer to the unusuall guide) is it much more reliable to search via backpack history as what it gets sold for can be vastly different from the offers and or b/o unless the offer is placed in the trade from the buyer and history matches up.

 

The changes to outpost as well as bazaars rising popularity it seems like i will need to update this guide to keep it relevent. I will work on it (soon) as well as improving areas which people have added me to ask questions. If there is anything which you still have questions on dot hesitate to ask ^_^

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KatanaBladeNeko

+Repping this thread. Actually explained a lot.

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