Assault Trifle Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Hi everyone,This is my first post, I couldn't see this topic anywhere but apologies if it's been discussed already.It seems to me that there is a massive problem with price suggestions at the moment. Namely, the instability of the currency used. Keys are increasing in price massively and it seems like they will continue to do so for a while. Because of this, items priced in terms of keys rather than refs will inflate in value along with the keys. For example...Let's say I have two items, Item 1 is priced at 0.5 keys. Item 2 is priced at 7 ref. At time of posting this, these items are exactly the same in value as keys are 14 ref.In a month's time, let's say keys are 16 ref. Because of this, the price of Item 1 has increased without a price suggestion even being made. Item 1 is still 0.5 keys, but that now equates to 8 ref. Whereas Item 2 is still stuck at 7 ref.It's ridiculous that some items should be subjected to this inflation whereas others aren't. The only way to balance this would be to have all suggestions in the same currency.Isn't it about time that all suggestions were made in refined?Thoughts welcome. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HusKy Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 > Keys are increasing in price massively It's the exact opposite, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimes Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6090-the-one-and-only-key-price-topic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swag Inc Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 > Keys are increasing in price massively It's the exact opposite, you know. The exact opposite? "Keys are decreasing in price massively" Ahem really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punishment_Fatal Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 The exact opposite? "Keys are decreasing in price massively" Ahem really? I think he meant to say that keys were at a constant and instead ref is decreasing in price rapidly (or at least I presume). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swag Inc Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I think he meant to say that keys were at a constant and instead ref is decreasing in price rapidly (or at least I presume). Oh ok yeah that makes more sense, although buds, bills are also dropping like rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Bakula Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 The difference between a 7 refined item and a 0.5 key item is that one is more commonly traded for refined while the other is more traded for keys with refined as change. It's a subtle, but important difference. If something priced in key percentage's value drifts off far enough from keys, then it will soon get priced in metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assault Trifle Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 > Keys are increasing in price massively It's the exact opposite, you know. I'm assuming you misspoke and meant to say that keys are constant whilst refs decrease. Unfortunately this isn't valid as bills and buds are also falling in price rapidly. This wouldn't be the case if your argument were true. So no, that's not correct. Keys are rising in price and I don't think anybody would convincingly argue against that. The difference between a 7 refined item and a 0.5 key item is that one is more commonly traded for refined while the other is more traded for keys with refined as change. It's a subtle, but important difference. If something priced in key percentage's value drifts off far enough from keys, then it will soon get priced in metal. Thanks for your input. I suspected someone might present this argument and I do find it somewhat convincing. However there is a problem with it in my eyes that I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on. By the time the item gets priced from key currency into metal currency, the damage has already been done. Let's say Item 1 gets converted into metal because, as you say, it drifted from keys. In that time, keys could have increased drastically in value, meaning that when it is converted into metal it will be a different price to Item 2. This change in price would be driven purely because keys go up and not by any proof / voting system. Also, I'm fairly sure I've seen people use keys in their suggestion even when the proof they provide is mainly metal. This is because keys are easier to deal with when you get to that quantity of metal. I'm aware I'm not particularly knowledgable on the tf2 economy. But I am knowledgable in real world economics and one of the most basic things required for a healthy economy is a stable currency. Please don't mistake my questions for criticisms. I'm genuinely curious! http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6090-the-one-and-only-key-price-topic/ Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately this isn't particularly relevant to this post as I'm not concerned with the reason for the price of keys going up. I'm rather talking about the impact key rises can have on price suggestions. Thanks for reading though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobmeister Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately this isn't particularly relevant to this post as I'm not concerned with the reason for the price of keys going up. I'm rather talking about the impact key rises can have on price suggestions. Thanks for reading though. Uh. That is a key price topic. The only one. What you have made here is a key price topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HusKy Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I'm assuming you misspoke and meant to say that keys are constant whilst refs decrease. Unfortunately this isn't valid as bills and buds are also falling in price rapidly. This wouldn't be the case if your argument were true. So no, that's not correct. Keys are rising in price and I don't think anybody would convincingly argue against that. No I did not. Keys are $2.49 in the shop and $1.80-$2.00 from PayPal traders. They have been like this for over a year now (after carders got taken care of). It's not just Bill's and Earbuds, it's pretty much every single expensive item in the game. I don't know what's your point. They are dropping because of million other reasons such as low demand, harder to obtain for free just by collecting metal, SCM providing safe cash and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤ Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I'm assuming you misspoke and meant to say that keys are constant whilst refs decrease. Unfortunately this isn't valid as bills and buds are also falling in price rapidly. This wouldn't be the case if your argument were true. So no, that's not correct. Keys are rising in price and I don't think anybody would convincingly argue against that. how can keys rise in price? every time keys rise in ref ref drop in price.ref is not a currency it is a freemium witch you can use to trade in game while keys where always had a set price that only rise 0.2 euro cents lately.i will not agree with you ref is worthless has no value on its own.it only has a value comparing to keys.for ref to obtain a value valve must include it in the steam market.witch they still have not till then is a worthless in game drop that will only drop in price,ppl want keys not ref and usually ppl whant shit with a value attached to them witch ref does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assault Trifle Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Uh. That is a key price topic. The only one. What you have made here is a key price topic. Thanks, but this is not a key price topic. This is a topic on whether keys are suitable currency for suggestions. I appreciate your time though. No I did not. Keys are $2.49 in the shop and $1.80-$2.00 from PayPal traders. They have been like this for over a year now (after carders got taken care of). It's not just Bill's and Earbuds, it's pretty much every single expensive item in the game. I don't know what's your point. They are dropping because of million other reasons such as low demand, harder to obtain for free just by collecting metal, SCM providing safe cash and so on. Yes you did. You said that keys weren't rising in price but the exact opposite was happening. The exact opposite means keys decreasing in price. That's not what you meant. You meant that keys were remaining constant - or in your own words, "They have been like this for over a year now." So yes, you did misspeak. But I knew what you meant so it's fine. I think it's quite obvious (I apologise if I didn't make it clear) that I'm referring to the price of keys in metal, not cash. You can assume that's always what I mean when I refer to the price of keys from now on. On to your rebuttal, I agree there are other factors in play here, but the fact remains that the price of keys is rapidly increasing and this makes the currency unstable. That's what this topic is about. Do you think this is a problem? If not, why? Would love to hear your thoughts. how can keys rise in price? every time keys rise in ref ref drop in price.ref is not a currency it is a freemium witch you can use to trade in game while keys where always had a set price that only rise 0.2 euro cents lately.i will not agree with you ref is worthless has no value on its own.it only has a value comparing to keys.for ref to obtain a value valve must include it in the steam market.witch they still have not till then is a worthless in game drop that will only drop in price,ppl want keys not ref and usually ppl whant shit with a value attached to them witch ref does not. Firstly, let me clarify that keys are rising in price regarding metal, not cash. Also there are multiple issues with your comment. "Ref is not a currency" - metal is certainly a currency in tf2 "Ref is worthless and has no value on its own" - this is just as true of keys "People want keys not ref" - clearly not true, thousands of trades for metal occur every day. Many people have no desire for keys So all in all, this wasn't a particularly well informed argument. But I thank you for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HusKy Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Thanks, but this is not a key price topic. This is a topic on whether keys are suitable currency for suggestions. I appreciate your time though. Yes you did. You said that keys weren't rising in price but the exact opposite was happening. The exact opposite means keys decreasing in price. That's not what you meant. You meant that keys were remaining constant - or in your own words, "They have been like this for over a year now." So yes, you did misspeak. But I knew what you meant so it's fine. I think it's quite obvious (I apologise if I didn't make it clear) that I'm referring to the price of keys in metal, not cash. You can assume that's always what I mean when I refer to the price of keys from now on. On to your rebuttal, I agree there are other factors in play here, but the fact remains that the price of keys is rapidly increasing and this makes the currency unstable. That's what this topic is about. Do you think this is a problem? If not, why? Would love to hear your thoughts. By opposite, I mean that it's the metal losing value not key gaining any. But someone has already explained that in this thread already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assault Trifle Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 By opposite, I mean that it's the metal losing value not key gaining any. But someone has already explained that in this thread already. I know, hence I made this comment... I'm assuming you misspoke and meant to say that keys are constant whilst refs decrease. Which you then denied with "No I did not." Not sure why you denied that, but it doesn't matter. As I said before I knew what you meant to say. In future I guess just try to be a bit clearer with what you're stating to avoid confusions like this. Would still be interested in hearing your thoughts on the topic of the unstable key currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤ Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 "Ref is not a currency" - metal is certainly a currency in tf2 "Ref is worthless and has no value on its own" - this is just as true of keys "People want keys not ref" - clearly not true, thousands of trades for metal occur every day. Many people have no desire for keys So all in all, this wasn't a particularly well informed argument. But I thank you for reading. you misunderstand ref has a value 18 weapons equals to 1 ref that makes keys to worth 250 weapons each in current key/ref value ppl desire keys,ref is a free drop so as everything free has no value unless compared to something that does have a value. if ppl where after ref and not keys,keys would have never be at 14 ref each. having keys its a way to guarantee that you will get more ref for your keys in the future making fliping ref to keys worth it. so if ppl want to have more ref as you are saying the only way to rise their ref needs is to make sure to have more keys. keys are the currency of the game solely because they hold a real value witch is the $ price. everything else is priced according to that even buds cant escape the need for more keys. cause the only thing ppl are selling buds for are keys.so the quicksell them to make sure they get the keys they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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