Opinions on "Illegal" Torrenting?

[Дебра]

I torrent the occasional album. Don't bother with games/movies, much rather buy a legit copy.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

You clearly missed the point, it's not interesting if it's physical or digital, as the owner still loses incomes. Why is it worse to steal digital items than physical items? I'd also like a source of your numbers on how many people who buy the movie after they've illegaly watched it, it defeats the entire purpose. If you steal a disc from the store the owner can just order more discs. The only difference is that the owner of the store loses revenue instead of the content creator.

Theres a difference between an opportunity cost - based loss and an actual loss.

 

And the reason why a lot of people torrent is because they believe that a company only deserves there money if that company produced something worthwhile. This is especially true with games, where people will torrent a game and if it's worthwhile, they will then go and buy it.

[Zerr]

So you are saying if i have a copy of a thing, it's fine if my revenue is stolen. wat.

[Zerr]

Firstly, thats actually not true. A lot of people do pirate stuff and then buy it if it is worth the money.

Secondly, pirating doesn't physically remove a copy from the owner. If you pirate something the owner still has a copy. Duping is by definition pirating.

 

And when you steal a physical disc from a store, that store owner no longer has that disc.

 

Because pirating gets products a LOT more exposure then they would otherwise get. I had a friend who would pirate pretty much everything and then tell people what shows/movies/games to watch/play/buy. Now, he would NEVER have bought any of it, but because he downloaded so much he actually got a lot of people playing/watching a lot of shows/games (many of which actually went out and bought them on iTunes/Netflix/etc...).

 

Plus, then there is the fact that, I pay for TV and a DVR, therefore I can essentially download anything I want with that DVR, it's just more of a nuisance; plus someone who buys a movie should be allowed to give it to his friends to watch, so the only difference between that and torrenting is that when you torrent it turns that one copy into multiple.

Also, that's the case with your friend. But most people who pirate don't do that kind of stuff. Also my parents own a company, i would not like their revenue being exchanged for attention/advertisement without their consent. You can't just say that it helps the company, why would it be illegal, if you ask the company if you can do that and they give permission then sure, go pirate it and advertise it, but don't do it without consent.

[Zerr]

Theres a difference between an opportunity cost - based loss and an actual loss.

 

And the reason why a lot of people torrent is because they believe that a company only deserves there money if that company produced something worthwhile. This is especially true with games, where people will torrent a game and if it's worthwhile, they will then go and buy it.

But would you be fine with me if i went to a store, picked up a crappy phone and defended myself with "it wasn't a worthwhile phone, it sucked so i can steal it". Would you? You might say that games are basically just copies, and IRL you need to physically make those. But it still costed a lot of money and time to make a game. You could think of it in a way, that when IRL they replenish inventory, in the virtual world they make all the inventory in one shot, when they are developing that game.

[Zerr]

You can't just go into a store, take something and say the company doesn't deserve the money, that's not how the world works. If you don't think the company doesn't deserve it, don't just simply buy it.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Also, that's the case with your friend. But most people who pirate don't do that kind of stuff. Also my parents own a company, i would not like their revenue being exchanged for attention/advertisement without their consent. You can't just say that it helps the company, why would it be illegal, if you ask the company if you can do that and they give permission then sure, go pirate it and advertise it, but don't do it without consent.

Actually a decent number of pirates do do that, and most of those that don't would have NEVER bought the content in the first place. And the only reason piracy as a method of advertising works is because they get people to buy the content. If companies just said pirating is okay then those people who were convinced to buy it would torrent it themselves.

 

 

But would you be fine with me if i went to a store, picked up a crappy phone and defended myself with "it wasn't a worthwhile phone, it sucked so i can steal it". Would you? You might say that games are basically just copies, and IRL you need to physically make those. But it still costed a lot of money and time to make a game. You could think of it in a way, that when IRL they replenish inventory, in the virtual world they make all the inventory in one shot, when they are developing that game.

Again, you're physically taking an item away from someone. That doesn't happen with digital copies. A much more apt description would be notes...If you take my notes for an exam and I didn't have another copy, I would be pissed. If you made a copy of my notes and I still retained my copy I wouldn't care.

 

 

You can't just go into a store, take something and say the company doesn't deserve the money, that's not how the world works. If you don't think the company doesn't deserve it, don't just simply buy it.

Multi.Fucking.Quote.

[cleverpun]

Torrenting games is a complete waste of time. I used to do it back before I had Steam (mostly with a custom DS cartridge), but now there's just no point. Between Metacritic and all my Youtube subscriptions, I'm fairly well-informed about a game I'm about to buy, and Steam makes things so incredibly cheap that I would much rather pay for a legal copy than mess around with hacked iso files or whatever.

 

The inconvenience isn't worth the low cost, especially when you are comparing it to something that is already incredibly cheap. I mean, I got a copy of Brutal Legend today for a key. That is less than 2 dollars. I've eaten candy that cost more than that.

[Genzarata]

Torrenting games is a complete waste of time. I used to do it back before I had Steam (mostly with a custom DS cartridge), but now there's just no point. Between Metacritic and all my Youtube subscriptions, I'm fairly well-informed about a game I'm about to buy, and Steam makes things so incredibly cheap that I would much rather pay for a legal copy than mess around with hacked iso files or whatever.

 

The inconvenience isn't worth the low cost, especially when you are comparing it to something that is already incredibly cheap. I mean, I got a copy of Brutal Legend today for a key. That is less than 2 dollars. I've eaten candy that cost more than that.

 

So much of this. I usually buy games for a couple of keys on Outpost, which I've traded for and haven't spent money on. However, the game has still been bought, and game trading is perfectly legitimate. Plus, all the games I have are ones which keep me interested for long periods of time, which I knew would happen because of reviews, advice from friends, and so on.

 

I can count the number of games I've torrented on one hand: there's Bioshock (given to me from a Humble Bundle which I bought), and Empire Earth (because I bought a copy full-price from a shop, but it didn't work on my computer - the torrented game does). I have a few friends who torrent games, and I'm not a huge fan of their justifications - which mainly revolve around 'try before you buy' - but in their defence, most of them do genuinely purchase a game if they like it, and their playtime is a few minutes to an hour on games they dislike.

 

But no, if you torrent a game because you want to play it and don't want to purchase it, you're bad and should feel bad.

[λngelღмander]

Torrenting games is a complete waste of time. I used to do it back before I had Steam (mostly with a custom DS cartridge), but now there's just no point. Between Metacritic and all my Youtube subscriptions, I'm fairly well-informed about a game I'm about to buy, and Steam makes things so incredibly cheap that I would much rather pay for a legal copy than mess around with hacked iso files or whatever.

 

The inconvenience isn't worth the low cost, especially when you are comparing it to something that is already incredibly cheap. I mean, I got a copy of Brutal Legend today for a key. That is less than 2 dollars. I've eaten candy that cost more than that.

For me, it's not a question about how cheap something is, it's about accessibility. In order to afford that game, I have to put money on my steam account, which is a lot of effort.

[cleverpun]

For me, it's not a question about how cheap something is, it's about accessibility. In order to afford that game, I have to put money on my steam account, which is a lot of effort.

They sell steam codes in stores, so underage people can convert cash into steam wallet that way. SCM also does not require any additional information beyond what is already in your steam account.

 

I almost never buy things with steam wallet anyway; outpost has better deals.

[ProPain]

I used to torrent games before i got into Steam.

 

I still occasionally download music

[Masky]

Piracy is not as bad as they want us to think, maybe someone already said this but 2lady2read.

You have the right to at least test something.

Notch, the creator of Minecraft, once said to someone, who couldnt buy minecraft, something like this:

It's OK, but if you are able to, you could be as kind as go and buying it right?

Not everyone is able to afford things and even less on that ages(8-16y), back in the years where computer used to be as huge as a house, they had to...just use all they could, they had to use their resources to get some ''toy'' to play with, made them, borrow them, whatever, it's the same with piracy.

You are stealing someones work? I dont think so, I view it more as borrowing.

Lots of people would have bought a game AFTER testing it via an ''illegal'' way...

It's a big way of advertising, really, there is just no empiric evidence that PIRACY makes big-companies sell less...

 

So, my view on this is as simple as this:

If you cant buy it or want to try it, pirate it, if you liked it or if you can, buy it.

You'll tell your experience about it, someone will know that, someone could buy it because you tested it and told them how it was.

You ''stole'' a 60$ copy, you will tell someone its a good game, you like it too, your friend and you buy it...ta-daa, 2 sales.

You cant test it, well, you dont like it that much unless someone with the game tells you how it is, you dont have that much money to waste 60$ on a videogame you wont know if you are going to like it or not...ta-daa, 0 sales here.

And also the ''borrowing'' thing comes here too, of the pirated copies, the very first one came from someone who bought the game.

You ''borrow'' a copy to test it, you like it/you can, you buy it, you dont like it, you dont.

 

 

And I say this as a person who does not really pirates a lots of things, right now I dont have a single pirated thing(Maybe a song, or a program I barely use)

And i'm REALLY sure lots of people are complaining about Piracy but they also have ROMS and Emulators, wich technically, you can only have a ROM of a game if you have a physical copy of it, the other way, would be piracy too...

[Kevin the Chicken God]

Piracy is not as bad as they want us to think, maybe someone already said this but 2lady2read

omg so fancy :3

 

 

 

I feel like when I want to buy something, I should be committed enough to it to feel as though it is worth my money. With so many available resources, including free demos, I don't think that piracy is required to evaluate a game's quality and judge whether or not it is worth buying. I don't feel any strong inclination to pirate either, if I dont have the money to buy something, I'll just wait until I get that money one way or another, and buy it if I still want it. I can understand pirating something like photoshop that has quite the pricetag, but other than that I don't really have any reason not to buy something legitimately.

 

Idk about movies/tv/music tho, I dont do any of that stuff so I cant speak for that

[CrafterofGenius]

 Grow up.

I believe this diagram flew straight over your head. The point is to show piracy is NOT theft of music movies games or any internet content. It is a term coined for theft over seas via ruffians.

[puddingkip]

You clearly missed the point, it's not interesting if it's physical or digital, as the owner still loses incomes. Why is it worse to steal digital items than physical items? I'd also like a source of your numbers on how many people who buy the movie after they've illegaly watched it, it defeats the entire purpose. If you steal a disc from the store the owner can just order more discs. The only difference is that the owner of the store loses revenue instead of the content creator.

Awesome is pointing to physical copy in an economic sense, you are in a generals sense. With pirating the file remains physically and economically yours. In an economic sense you physically own your steam games, whilst you do not need to have a hard copy at home. By pirating you remove neither of those ownerships, by shoplifting you remove both. There lies a difference. 

 

You used an example of a car. If I saw your car on a street and stole it it's theft. But torrents copy your car and you at the end still 100% own your car. You do not have a loss, whilst I have a gain.

The company that produces the car has a decrease in revenue, but in economics you are never allowed to say x copies got pirated, we sell at y price, so our losses from pirating are xy as several externalities could have happened and for instance me not taking the product if I had to pay for it because my surplus from buying it is lower than the price the company was asking.

[Avenging Flame]

I torrent movies and tv shows if I cant find them streaming somewhere.

 

I dont like to download games unless its a big company that doesnt need the money

[wallywalrus_]

I don't pirate -- I don't have anything against it when it comes to large corporations 

 

But I think it's nice to support the individual contributor if it's a few bucks.

[SilverSpeed]

I pirate because I can't really pay for a lot.

However, when I do get money and if I found myself enjoying the experience I am willing to purchase the game even if I end up never playing it again.

 

But I do pirate a lot of music.

[nicksaysmeep]

I believe this diagram flew straight over your head. The point is to show piracy is NOT theft of music movies games or any internet content. It is a term coined for theft over seas via ruffians.

Yeah, that's what I got out of the diagram. It was just a joke that ended up taking almost 2 pages of conversation.

[thecityburns2day]

I torrent things I don't like enough to support. Gonna get that ninja turtle movie soon, I'm not interested enough in it to rent from red box or whatever

[Zerr]

Actually a decent number of pirates do do that, and most of those that don't would have NEVER bought the content in the first place. And the only reason piracy as a method of advertising works is because they get people to buy the content. If companies just said pirating is okay then those people who were convinced to buy it would torrent it themselves.

 

 

Again, you're physically taking an item away from someone. That doesn't happen with digital copies. A much more apt description would be notes...If you take my notes for an exam and I didn't have another copy, I would be pissed. If you made a copy of my notes and I still retained my copy I wouldn't care.

 

 

 

Multi.Fucking.Quote.

Oh, but let's say you were selling those notes for some reason. Ok, so people bought them, and you would be happy about the money! But then someone buys one of them, copies multiple of them and hands them out free. You don't get as much money anymore. Would you be happy? The problem is, the "pirate" isn't copying just 1 for himself to use, he is giving it to other people. Also, i'm 2lazy to multiquote, and also was so in flames i couldn't think at that time. Im sorry.

 

I torrent things I don't like enough to support. Gonna get that ninja turtle movie soon, I'm not interested enough in it to rent from red box or whatever

So if you don't think a product isn't good enough, you just pirate it? If it's not good enough, just don't get it! I can't go to a store, take a thing and say it isn't good enough so i wont pay!

 

Awesome is pointing to physical copy in an economic sense, you are in a generals sense. With pirating the file remains physically and economically yours. In an economic sense you physically own your steam games, whilst you do not need to have a hard copy at home. By pirating you remove neither of those ownerships, by shoplifting you remove both. There lies a difference. 

 

You used an example of a car. If I saw your car on a street and stole it it's theft. But torrents copy your car and you at the end still 100% own your car. You do not have a loss, whilst I have a gain.

The company that produces the car has a decrease in revenue, but in economics you are never allowed to say x copies got pirated, we sell at y price, so our losses from pirating are xy as several externalities could have happened and for instance me not taking the product if I had to pay for it because my surplus from buying it is lower than the price the company was asking.

But the problem is, that car is for your own use. Games are not developed for the creators own use, they are created to make revenue. And by pirating you are decreasing revenue. I don't think piracy is theft, i think it is sabotage.

 

Also sorry if i say something you have already proved wrong, my native language is not English, thus i do not understand all the fancy economic word you use.

[Zerr]

I torrent things I don't like enough to support. Gonna get that ninja turtle movie soon, I'm not interested enough in it to rent from red box or whatever

So if you don't think a product isn't good enough, you just pirate it? If it's not good enough, just don't get it! I can't go to a store, take a thing and say it isn't good enough so i wont pay!

[Zerr]

Awesome is pointing to physical copy in an economic sense, you are in a generals sense. With pirating the file remains physically and economically yours. In an economic sense you physically own your steam games, whilst you do not need to have a hard copy at home. By pirating you remove neither of those ownerships, by shoplifting you remove both. There lies a difference. 

 

You used an example of a car. If I saw your car on a street and stole it it's theft. But torrents copy your car and you at the end still 100% own your car. You do not have a loss, whilst I have a gain.

The company that produces the car has a decrease in revenue, but in economics you are never allowed to say x copies got pirated, we sell at y price, so our losses from pirating are xy as several externalities could have happened and for instance me not taking the product if I had to pay for it because my surplus from buying it is lower than the price the company was asking.

But the problem is, that car is for your own use. Games are not developed for the creators own use, they are created to make revenue. And by pirating you are decreasing revenue. I don't think piracy is theft, i think it is sabotage.

[Zerr]

Also sorry if i say something you have already proved wrong, my native language is not English, thus i do not understand all the fancy economic word you use.