Slocumruls Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Seeing unusuals priced using scm sales only makes me feel this needs to be addressed. The main issues with using scm sales ONLY: 1. There are multiple ways to value scm $. A. Value using how many buds/keys the seller could buy with the money or how many the buyer could have bought instead B. Value using how many buds/keys the buyer needs to sell to buy the item (trade.tf valuation) C. Value how many keys/buds the seller would have to sell to receive the same amount of money Each of those methods ends with a different Value 2. Without screenshots from the buyer/seller the specific effect sold cannot be proven and the amount of time the sale took cannot be proven 3. Many lower tier effects on high tier hats sell for significantly more than their current bp.tf value example from my own scm history: http://imgur.com/dKcAzHD http://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Texas%20Ten%20Gallon/Tradable/Craftable/36 Provide thoughts if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Prof. Sugarcube♥ Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 SCM is fine for support proof, or main proof if there are absolutely no other sales in 3 months. My Collector' VRH Suggestion is like this; http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5416a739ba8d889f218b47c0 However this was only because there were no other sales (it was 1:1) SCm should be Support proof if there are legit trading sales, but main if there are no other sales and you have a Viable way to prove it was the Hat + effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slocumruls Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 another example of the prices of bp.tf and scm being fairly different: http://imgur.com/Rn6jB4j http://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Taunt%3A%20Square%20Dance/Tradable/Craftable/3005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slocumruls Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/546c2f31ba8d88b36a8b48f6 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/546c317dba8d88b53c8b4787 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/546c374cb88d88384c8b4a6c After he got the screenshots you can now see that each of these involves a sale that occurred in 1 day at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naknak Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Market price is good for proving when a price is wrong. If a "2 buds" hat is unsold on market for $40, then 2 buds is too high no matter which conversion method you use. The most common source of unusual price info is unusual-vs-unusual trades which also suffer from uncertainty. Suppose I have "hat A", pricechecked at 7 buds. It's an old price and outpost has 4 of them unsold at 7-. I list it for 6 and intend to accept 5.5 pure. A month later, guy offers "hat B" for mine, pricechecked at 6.5-7 buds and everyone on outpost wants 7+. I figure I can sell B faster than A, do trade, list for 6 firm and sell for pure later that day. From my point of view, I made at least .5 buds on the deal since I couldn't sell A for 6 buds. But for all I know that guy had a buyer lined up at 7 buds. Did I overpay? Did he? Did both of us overpay? It's unknowable. The difference between maximum and minimum SCM conversions is ~31% (maximum = minimum + two sets of 15% fees) and I'd say that's no worse than the plausible range of unusual-vs-unusual valuations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Seeing unusuals priced using scm sales only makes me feel this needs to be addressed. The main issues with using scm sales ONLY: 1. There are multiple ways to value scm $. A. Value using how many buds/keys the seller could buy with the money or how many the buyer could have bought instead B. Value using how many buds/keys the buyer needs to sell to buy the item (trade.tf valuation) C. Value how many keys/buds the seller would have to sell to receive the same amount of money Each of those methods ends with a different Value 2. Without screenshots from the buyer/seller the specific effect sold cannot be proven and the amount of time the sale took cannot be proven 3. Many lower tier effects on high tier hats sell for significantly more than their current bp.tf value example from my own scm history: http://imgur.com/dKcAzHD http://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Texas%20Ten%20Gallon/Tradable/Craftable/36 Provide thoughts if you want. Helix asked me about this and this is what I relayed to him. (1) In most situations, SCM should be used ONLY as supportive proof just as Naknak indicates above. (2) However, in the situation where there are no other sales in 3 months and the hat went to a collector, I think it's fine. These are cases where if we don't price off the SCM sale that hat will probably never get priced (or won't be priced for a very long time). Then, since prices are estimates anyways, the SCM sale is our estimate. In these cases, I told him to make a range. High end = what seller pays (no taxes). Low end = what buyer gets (after taxes). And buds at their selling point at the time of the sale (to make it simpler). Only fair way I see of handling this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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