Nazi ϟϟ Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I just watched this actually I watched it quite a while ago too. Love the guys videos. Religion is stupid God isn't real, so nothing could have created him It's a fairy tale. Origins of these tales tend not to exist. How are you so sure? We are encouraged in most religions to use our senses and our common sense to recognize that all of this universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. That is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something that we can understand. We don't have to see an artist to recognize a painting, correct? So, if we see paintings without seeing artists painting them, in the same way, we can believe that God exists and created everything without having to see Him (or touch, or hear, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 How are you so sure? We are encouraged in most religions to use our senses and our common sense to recognize that all of this universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. That is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something that we can understand. We don't have to see an artist to recognize a painting, correct? So, if we see paintings without seeing artists painting them, in the same way, we can believe that God exists and created everything without having to see Him (or touch, or hear, etc.). Please start a new topic if you want to discuss why you think god exists. Don't derail this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrrpinator Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Well, now! If you could conclusively demonstrate that, you would be famous. For now, I will assume you are merely deluded. If you'd like to show everyone, please start a new topic and do so. Well, I may be deluded as you said, but I watched a recent movie known as 'God's NOT Dead', so yes, I may be basing off of groundless assumptions that hold no water, but if you do take some time to watch it, you'll understand where I come from, albeit it being a rather bias standpoint as well (I'm a Christian). Then again, the fact that it is a simple matter of a Chicken-and-Egg question still stands, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrrpinator Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Well, now! If you could conclusively demonstrate that, you would be famous. For now, I will assume you are merely deluded. If you'd like to show everyone, please start a new topic and do so. Also, thank you for approaching and rebutting my point politely, unlike some d*ckwads who only go around preaching that God does not exist with no room for other considerations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 ^ If you want to discuss the actual existence or non-existence of god or other things related to it such as your misconceptions about atheists and the burden of proof and so forth, please start a thread for it. I personally will be more than happy to discuss it with you there, believe me! It's one of my favorite subjects! Let us all be reminded what the subject of this thread is: If God was to be proven real, do you think there might be another God above him? And maybe more above that one? Discuss NOTE: Please don't come in here and just be like, "herp durr but he's not real like at all." I completely respect your views on religion but I'm only asking for one thing. Stick to the scenario given for this discussion. The scenario being that he was proven to be real. Everyone on this earth knows he exists and is aware of his presence. So that's the scenario we are dealing with. OT: I would like to know what people think about what I posted previously: I think it would be impossible for a god to conclusively demonstrate that there is no greater god above it, and the video in the OP kind of touches on that in a way by attacking the concept of omniscience. I'm pretty sure it would also be impossible for a god to conclusively debunk hard philosophical solipsism, even to itself. So even if god showed up and everyone knew of god's existence, the question of whether there is there a higher god would always be open, as would the question of whether or not anything outside of oneself is actually real. This is of course based on the notion that concepts like omniscience and omnipotence are illogical. I am really surprised that nobody had anything to say about that. I'm basically claiming here that if god was real, god cannot logically prove or disprove the existence of another god which may or may not have been responsible for creating the god which is supposed to have been responsible for creating us. I am saying that this is because the concept of omniscience (being "all-knowing") is illogical. I suspect that this would be a pretty shocking claim to some people, yet nobody bothered to challenge me on it. Are we all just going to accept this? I know that there are some christians (and muslims and jews) reading and posting in the topic who probably believe that god is both real and omniscient, so I expected someone to have something to say about it. Anyway, even if nobody challenges my claim, basically I'm saying that the answer to the question of whether or not there is a "god's god" is ultimately unknowable by any logical means, even by god itself if god was real, just like the question of whether there is a god is unknowable to us (unless god just shows up one day and says "hi", but even in that case there would be some room for doubt). However, if you simply define god as being omniscient, then I am saying my answer to the question of whether that god exists is definitely "no", because omniscience is illogical and so a being with that specific attribute could not logically exist. One might then choose to define god (or "god's god") as being beyond logic, in which case you've just pulled the rug out from under any attempt at logical conversation about god (or god's god) and relegated everything to accepting things about god (or god's god) on faith, in which case the whole conversation is pointless and you've just conceded that there's no logical reason to believe in such a god (or god's god). In short, if you try to imagine a world in which god is known by everyone to exist, you haven't actually solved anything. The same philosophical problems exist, but you've just pushed them back a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 No. If there is a God,it can only be in a perfect form. In that form there can not be a God above it otherwise it is a lesser being. This is about how God is defined. Allah is just another name for God, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 No. If there is a God,it can only be in a perfect form. In that form there can not be a God above it otherwise it is a lesser being. This is about how God is defined. Allah is just another name for God, btw. As you yourself have stated, that's just how you choose to define god and you've actually demonstrated nothing. I can define things any way I want to, but it doesn't mean anything to the real world. If I define god as having sausages for arms, nothing follows from it except that if the god I defined exists, then it has sausages for arms. Or rather, if A, then A. Kinda pointless. We may as well just be sitting in a circle and jerking eachother off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyPotato Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 · Hidden by cleverpun, November 1, 2014 - Spam Hidden by cleverpun, November 1, 2014 - Spam We may as well just be sitting in a circle and jerking each other off. I'll get the lotion and the nipple clamps. ( ͡°â•ÍœÊ–╮͡° ) Link to comment
F CHARLIE Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 As you yourself have stated, that's just how you choose to define god and you've actually demonstrated nothing. I can define things any way I want to. Actually, you can't. The being, God, the one talked about in this thread, has cultural and historical meaning. God, capitol "g", has been predefined. Anything else, sausage god, is automatically recognized as something different. There can not be a God above God or the first being is not God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Actually, you can't. The being, God, the one talked about in this thread, has cultural and historical meaning. God, capitol "g", has been predefined. Anything else, sausage god, is automatically recognized as something different. There can not be a God above God or the first being is not God. Read the rest of my post. Basically what you've said is "if A, then A". There also are many different possible gods, all of which have their own cultural and historical origins and meanings, and there are even different versions of the same god within the same religion, or even in the same denomination/sect, or even in the same church if we're talking about christianity. The person sitting next to you in church may have a version of god in their mind that is mutually exclusive to the one in your mind, and their definition may be adjusted later on (and in all likelihood will be as time goes on). Did you know that one way of interpreting the christian god is to say that it is the god of humanity/earth? The mormons define god that way, and think that one day they'll get their own worlds to be god over. Many mormons even believe that god was created by another god, and that it is part of an eternal cycle. Hell, I could probably go back and interpret genesis in a way that it's talking about god creating the local solar system and neighbouring stars instead of the entire universe. Perhaps the only real obstacle would be how flexible I am willing to get in my definitions of things. edit: actually, I just pulled out old my bible and did exactly that. It says that god created an expanse between the waters and called it heaven. Sounds like the sky to me, not the universe. Verse 16 and 17 is probably where people get the idea that the heavens are the entire universe, because it says god put the stars in the expanse, but I could just interpret this to mean that god put the stars in the sky and say it's not meant to be taken literally as if to say there are actually stars in earth's atmosphere. Bam, I can call it a day. God is now only creating earth and the local stars including the sun. In fact, I went ahead and looked this up, and there are translations that have this as "sky". What you've done is just selected the definition of god you like the most, probably because it fits with your personal cultural background and your own beliefs, and ignored the problem of omniscience and omnipotence and the contradictions they cause or the problem of how we (or god) can go about knowing things which are untestable, and you're throwing out the entire premise of the thread. You're just declaring something true by definition and calling it quits as if that solves anything, when in reality you're not even addressing the topic at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazi ϟϟ Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 As you yourself have stated, that's just how you choose to define god and you've actually demonstrated nothing. I can define things any way I want to, but it doesn't mean anything to the real world. If I define god as having sausages for arms, nothing follows from it except that if the god I defined exists, then it has sausages for arms. Or rather, if A, then A. Kinda pointless. We may as well just be sitting in a circle and jerking eachother off. Funny how you don't have common sense and tell other people to make new topics. Only God will choose who he wants to believe in him. As for you I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Funny how you don't have common sense and tell other people to make new topics. Only God will choose who he wants to believe in him. As for you I'm sorry. The OP clearly states not to be arguing about whether god actually exists or not, merely to work with the hypothetical scenario in which god is known to be real by everyone, which is why I'm requesting people who appear to want to discuss the actual existence or non-existence of god to create a separate topic for it. I'm sorry you can't see that. Perhaps now you will understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 snip - This thread, as well as many others here, are dealing with one god, the god of the Islam/Jewish/Christian narrative. The god in that narrative is so commonly understood that any discussion about another god must be noted so the reader knows to shift context. What you are talking about is a distraction from threads intention. Sorry to be rough with you but you did the same thing in my tread a little while ago. Someone correct me if I am in the wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenging Flame Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I believe the old theory is that if there was a being powerful enough to create the entire universe, then would that being not be powerful enough to bring itself into existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 This thread, as well as many others here, are dealing with one god, the god of the Islam/Jewish/Christian narrative. The god in that narrative is so commonly understood that any discussion about another god must be noted so the reader knows to shift context. What you are talking about is a distraction from threads intention. Sorry to be rough with you but you did the same thing in my tread a little while ago. Someone correct me if I am in the wrong here. I see you conveniently neglected to quote any of my post or address any of the points that I brought up. As I said, it's your own cultural bias that is causing you trouble. You're are simply declaring something true by definition, a definition which you are comfortable with due to your own cultural background. You are then dismissing out of hand any alternative interpretation/conceptualization to it and thereby avoiding the topic of discussion entirely. If that's what you want to do, fine. Just at least be honest about it, to yourself if not to anyone else. For the record, ignoring everything else, the core of what you originally said is technically correct, which as I more or less explained amounts to the statement "if god is the only god, then god is the only god", or "if A, then A". That's not how you said it, but that's what it boils down to. You just said that since you define god as being the only god, if that god exists, then that god is the only god. Which is the same thing. I just simplified it for you. For the third time now, if anyone is counting. And so what then? The statement "if A, then A" is not really saying much at all. Congratulations? btw, 666th post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazi ϟϟ Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The OP clearly states not to be arguing about whether god actually exists or not, merely to work with the hypothetical scenario in which god is known to be real by everyone, which is why I'm requesting people who appear to want to discuss the actual existence or non-existence of god to create a separate topic for it. I'm sorry you can't see that. Perhaps now you will understand. I don't understand athiests. If your a 'christian' than how dare you mock God? Perfectly normal for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerr Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I just watched this actually I watched it quite a while ago too. Love the guys videos. Religion is stupid God isn't real, so nothing could have created him It's a fairy tale. Origins of these tales tend not to exist. Soo, you are saying if there's no proof, it is 100% not true? Wtf, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Lowell Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 If god had a god, gods god would assumably have a god, and gods gods god would have a god, and so on. What would have come before these gods? my head hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedarium Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 my head hurts I'll make it better. *punches head* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqkAudio Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Someone reported a post of mine today. Top kek or cleverpun just decided to be a scrub again inb4 ban This thread died a long time ago. Why necro? D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Christian have faith on their belief god exists and atheists have faith on their belief that the world came to be through science. It's funny how none of us have any proof. Scientists make theories on how the world came to be just like Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-NFK- Suicide Clyde Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 In the Bible this very question is answered. Revelation 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me." I like the question form a fee thought experiment type thing, however it is answered in a few places in the Bible, these are but a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotty™ Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 You guys with your bullshit, while me praying to lord Gaben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keroro1454 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 If god had a god, gods god would assumably have a god, and gods gods god would have a god, and so on. What would have come before these gods? A P.O. box could in theory break the chain. TL;DR mailmen are secretly a massive chain of gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
λngelღмander Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 God is real you atheists are just lost in life and dont know what to believe which is pretty sad why cant to be agnostic and drink dr pepper and believe and not believe that god is real because you have no real proof on both sides just like Dr Pepper you dont know if it taste like rootbeer coke pepsi mountain dew or anything your brains could melt because im over explaining an episode of southpark Please... Periods next time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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